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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part V

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Old
09-24-2012, 11:25 PM
  #326
No Fun Shogun
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No offense guys, but if Seattle lands the Oilers then they've completely lost any and all rights to complain about the way they lost the SuperSonics. This is pretty much Sonics on ice right now if it goes through....

Hope Seattle gets a team sooner rather than later, but if at all possible I would prefer it be through expansion than relocation, and definitely wouldn't want to see a team with an actual, legitimate fanbase with a storied history lose their team over arena grumbling, and this is coming from a guy that loves tearing into the Oilers as much as the next guy.

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Old
09-25-2012, 08:06 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
*hand up*
katz is pulling out all the stops. It's blackmail, plain and simple. See penguins and their dealings with KC while waiting to get funding approved for their arena.
Cheesy, greedy move by Katz, who's already been promised about $450m for a new Edmonton arena.

If Seattle gets an nhl team, I expect it'll be an expansion team based on the owners greed: expansion fees paying $200m.

I am kind of looking forward to the hypocritical outcry from the Canadian press over Katz's comments and actions. They get giddy over just the possibility, of relocatiing US teams to Canadian cities.

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09-25-2012, 08:15 AM
  #328
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I honestly do not know much about Seattle aside from Nirvanna, Pearl Jam, and the Seahawks having terrible uniforms.

On a serious note, what makes this a good hockey market? I know they have the Thunderbirds, but even if they are well supported, does that necessarily translate into supporting an NHL team considering the difference in money? I have heard the MLS team is one of the best supported teams in the league. Is there a good size youth hockey program in the area? I am not asking to be a jerk, just honestly do not know.

If Seattle does get a team, whether through relocation or expansion, I would like a rule implemented that whoever designed the Seahawks uniforms or their purple-ish unis they had a few years back is not permitted to design the hockey teams unis. Furthermore, no flourescent lime green in the uniform.

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09-25-2012, 08:42 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
No offense guys, but if Seattle lands the Oilers then they've completely lost any and all rights to complain about the way they lost the SuperSonics. This is pretty much Sonics on ice right now if it goes through....

Hope Seattle gets a team sooner rather than later, but if at all possible I would prefer it be through expansion than relocation, and definitely wouldn't want to see a team with an actual, legitimate fanbase with a storied history lose their team over arena grumbling, and this is coming from a guy that loves tearing into the Oilers as much as the next guy.
Lol what kind of logic is this? Katz moving the team here or selling the team to a owner that would move them here doesn't change the fact with what happened with the sonics at all. Watch sonics gate and learn the facts

I don't begrudge the fans of okc, they didn't steal the sonics.

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09-25-2012, 08:52 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I honestly do not know much about Seattle aside from Nirvanna, Pearl Jam, and the Seahawks having terrible uniforms.

On a serious note, what makes this a good hockey market? I know they have the Thunderbirds, but even if they are well supported, does that necessarily translate into supporting an NHL team considering the difference in money? I have heard the MLS team is one of the best supported teams in the league. Is there a good size youth hockey program in the area? I am not asking to be a jerk, just honestly do not know.

If Seattle does get a team, whether through relocation or expansion, I would like a rule implemented that whoever designed the Seahawks uniforms or their purple-ish unis they had a few years back is not permitted to design the hockey teams unis. Furthermore, no flourescent lime green in the uniform.
Jawandapuck had a huge info dump on why this would work as a market. But I'll give some reasons why Seattle is attractive:

1) strong support for junior hockey in the region
2) good number of ice rinks/youth programs/adult rec leagues
3) under served markets (Portland/Seattle)
4) proximity to large Canadian hockey base that would travel to Seattle
5) #13 DMA
6) potential of cooperation with nba team (regional sports network)

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09-25-2012, 10:23 AM
  #331
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Ok thanks.

4) how far of a drive from Seattle to the border? To Vancouver?
5) #13 DMA?

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09-25-2012, 10:25 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok thanks.

4) how far of a drive from Seattle to the border? To Vancouver?
5) #13 DMA?
answer to #4 Its about 2 hours to the canadain border.

Answer to #5 is tv marketing rating. Seattle is #13 in the tv market rating.

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09-25-2012, 10:29 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok thanks.

4) how far of a drive from Seattle to the border? To Vancouver?
5) #13 DMA?
4) It's about 140 miles, all freeway by the way, between Seattle and Vancouver; 115 between Seattle and the border. Depending on border wait times, it's probably 2-2.5 hours travel time.

5) I believe that is accurate. But of bigger importance is the regional television territory of an NHL franchise here, which would for the most part be similar to that of the Seattle Mariners' MLB territory. All of Washington and Alaska along with significant parts of Oregon, Idaho and Montana.

Also, I don't know if this is up in the Oilers' arena thread or not, but here's Elliotte Friedman's take on this Katz-Seattle business from yesterday:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...o-seattle.html

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09-25-2012, 10:34 AM
  #334
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Ok, but are people really going to drive 2 to 2 1/2 hours for a game on a consistent basis? I'm sure Canucks fans would make the drive on occassion when they are playing to see their team on the road, but I can't imagine too many Canadian would be lining up for season tickets. However, if the market is there, they wouldn't need to hope for the Canadians to make the trip.

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09-25-2012, 10:37 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok, but are people really going to drive 2 to 2 1/2 hours for a game on a consistent basis? I'm sure Canucks fans would make the drive on occassion when they are playing to see their team on the road, but I can't imagine too many Canadian would be lining up for season tickets. However, if the market is there, they wouldn't need to hope for the Canadians to make the trip.
10 games not too much. The market is there, it's just an extra, like Buffalo.

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09-25-2012, 11:01 AM
  #336
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Buffalo actually get a good amount from Canada as they are very close to the border.

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Old
09-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
No offense guys, but if Seattle lands the Oilers then they've completely lost any and all rights to complain about the way they lost the SuperSonics. This is pretty much Sonics on ice right now if it goes through....
You would have a point if Hansen or someone else from the team bought the Oilers first, looked everyone in the eye and said their intention was to keep them in Edmonton, then did everything they could to harpoon support, propose a ridiculous arena deal they know will never get any sort of support, then get out of town at the first possible second they could.

The difference is whoever deals with Hansen or NHL owner for Seattle team will know up front that their desire is to move the team to Seattle, not pretend like they want to keep it in the market they bought it from.

Having said all that, the Oilers belong in Edmonton, period.

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Old
09-25-2012, 11:24 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok thanks.

4) how far of a drive from Seattle to the border? To Vancouver?
5) #13 DMA?

My Vancouver friends say that south of Vancouver can get to Seattle in 2 hours (Surrey etc)

13th DMA= Designated Market Area, it has to deal with TV sets in a certain market.

But Seattle's reach would extend further than the DMA. Portland/Vancouver/Spokane would all be in the reach, and lesser extent, Idaho/Montana.

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09-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I am kind of looking forward to the hypocritical outcry from the Canadian press over Katz's comments and actions. They get giddy over just the possibility, of relocatiing US teams to Canadian cities.
How is it hypocritical?

Canada has the highest concentration of hockey fans, even though our population is a tenth the size of the US. Over 50% of the NHL players are still Canadian.

It's our ****ing sport. Relocating teams to where they belong is a positive thing. It's the right thing to do. Moving our teams to the ****ing US is a crime against humanity.

All along, I've thought a team in Seattle would be a great idea (as long as Quebec City got one first), but if it's the Oilers, hell no. I don't even like the Oilers. I'm a Winnipegger, and grew up watching my team get destroyed by the dynastic Oilers every year in the playoffs. But I still don't think Edmonton should ever, ever lose its team.

This whole this is extremely upsetting.

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Old
09-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok, but are people really going to drive 2 to 2 1/2 hours for a game on a consistent basis? I'm sure Canucks fans would make the drive on occassion when they are playing to see their team on the road, but I can't imagine too many Canadian would be lining up for season tickets. However, if the market is there, they wouldn't need to hope for the Canadians to make the trip.
Well one, because the Canadian Dollar is so strong. The cost of food/tickets/merchandise would be cheaper in the States. I also hear that it is much more expensive to get a Rogers Arena ticket, then it will be to get a SODO ticket. I can definitely see a after market for Sodo tickets.

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09-25-2012, 11:38 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Ok, but are people really going to drive 2 to 2 1/2 hours for a game on a consistent basis? I'm sure Canucks fans would make the drive on occassion when they are playing to see their team on the road, but I can't imagine too many Canadian would be lining up for season tickets. However, if the market is there, they wouldn't need to hope for the Canadians to make the trip.
For someone like me(Living in Metro Vancouver far from Rogers Arena) I can get to Downtown Seattle in about an and hour and forty-five on a good day. Only about 45 minutes more than it takes to get to Downtown Vancouver. If the prices are cheap enough I can certainly see a large amounts of people getting 10 game packs at the very least. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of group bus service set up to cut down on traveling costs like they have for Sounders/Whitecaps games

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Old
09-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Hope Seattle gets a team sooner rather than later, but if at all possible I would prefer it be through expansion than relocation, and definitely wouldn't want to see a team with an actual, legitimate fanbase with a storied history lose their team over arena grumbling, and this is coming from a guy that loves tearing into the Oilers as much as the next guy.
Definitely agree with this. Still, there is no way Katz' moves are anything more than posturing. Puckdaddy article does a pretty good job of explaining why economically:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...4074--nhl.html


Last edited by Cashville: 09-25-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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09-25-2012, 11:54 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
For someone like me(Living in Metro Vancouver far from Rogers Arena) I can get to Downtown Seattle in about an and hour and forty-five on a good day. Only about 45 minutes more than it takes to get to Downtown Vancouver. If the prices are cheap enough I can certainly see a large amounts of people getting 10 game packs at the very least. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of group bus service set up to cut down on traveling costs like they have for Sounders/Whitecaps games
Right, the expectations are that tickets will be cheaper in Seattle then they are in Vancouver (and their ticket prices are cheaper than Edmonton). So how is Katz going to make more money and pay rent by moving to Seattle?

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09-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #344
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[QUOTE=Fidel Astro;54577283]How is it hypocritical?

Canada has the highest concentration of hockey fans, even though our population is a tenth the size of the US. Over 50% of the NHL players are still Canadian.

It's our ****ing sport. Relocating teams to where they belong is a positive thing. It's the right thing to do. Moving our teams to the ****ing US is a crime against humanity.

All along, I've thought a team in Seattle would be a great idea (as long as Quebec City got one first), but if it's the Oilers, hell no. I don't even like the Oilers. I'm a Winnipegger, and grew up watching my team get destroyed by the dynastic Oilers every year in the playoffs. But I still don't think Edmonton should ever, ever lose its team.

this is extremely upsetting.[/QUOTE]

Is it?

Gee, ya think it's been extremely upsetting for fans in Phoenix and LI, everytime we've gotten another absolutely GLEEFUL article, from the Canadian media, calling for those teams to be relocated to Canada?

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09-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Right, the expectations are that tickets will be cheaper in Seattle then they are in Vancouver (and their ticket prices are cheaper than Edmonton). So how is Katz going to make more money and pay rent by moving to Seattle?
Huh Vancouver has the third most expensive average ticket price behind Montreal and Toronto. Katz can probably make more money in Seattle because

1. More seats
2. Big American Market(sponsorships, TV etc)
3. Higher food and drink costs

Average ticket prices may be lower in Seattle when compared to Edmonton when all is said and done but that all makes up for it.

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09-25-2012, 12:11 PM
  #346
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Seriously, Hansen does get things done. Any NHL team that talks to him should get their current city's attention real quick.
There is a huge difference between Hansen and Katz. Hansen is a fan that desperately wants the NBA to return to Seattle and he has put together a very fair deal for the city. Katz is a greedy owner that wants to extract as much as he can from the city of Edmonton through blackmail.

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09-25-2012, 12:30 PM
  #347
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Things are looking up for Seattle, so glad for them. It has been a sham that Seattle has never had an NHL chance. I'm just glad Winnipeg got their team back last year, now they would never have a chance with a properly organized Seattle contingent. I have no doubt a team in Seattle will happen soon and be a fantastic success.

Also, just a note, but not all of us Canadians have this "our" game mentality...it's selfish and a poor justification for taking glee in seeing other people suffer. There is no difference between Jets1.0, Nordiques or potentially Oilers moving than there is in Thrashers or potentially Islander/Coyotes moving, it all comes down to many diehard fans getting a passion of theirs taken away, it will suck for it to happen to anybody. I will never wish a relocation on any fanbase, but if they do happen they happen for business reasons, does not make moving one direction or another more "justified". Calling moving a professional sports franchise from one city to another a "crime against humanity" is one of the worst exaggerations I have ever heard.

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09-25-2012, 12:41 PM
  #348
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Definitely agree with this. Still, there is no way Katz' moves are anything more than posturing. Puckdaddy article does a pretty good job of explaining why economically:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...4074--nhl.html
Yeah, I don't think it's really anything other than a nice little show to cause an uproar and get politicians butts moving.

Which is why Wang should have done it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
How is it hypocritical?

Canada has the highest concentration of hockey fans, even though our population is a tenth the size of the US. Over 50% of the NHL players are still Canadian.

It's our ****ing sport. Relocating teams to where they belong is a positive thing. It's the right thing to do. Moving our teams to the ****ing US is a crime against humanity.

All along, I've thought a team in Seattle would be a great idea (as long as Quebec City got one first), but if it's the Oilers, hell no. I don't even like the Oilers. I'm a Winnipegger, and grew up watching my team get destroyed by the dynastic Oilers every year in the playoffs. But I still don't think Edmonton should ever, ever lose its team.

This whole this is extremely upsetting.
So, to recap:
In your mind, relocation isn't a bad thing, or a good thing. Whether a team is ripped out of your city and moved is "bad" or "good" is based on where they are moving to and from? QUE to COL was a travesty, ATL to WIN was just fantastic; EDM to SEA would be heinous, but PHX to HAM would be glorious?

I assume that if I asked you if mugging was bad, your response would be: "Am I getting mugged or doing the mugging?" or stealings a great thing if you're robbing people, but should be punishable if you're the victim?

Solid.


Last edited by KevFu: 09-25-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old
09-25-2012, 12:49 PM
  #349
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Things are looking up for Seattle, so glad for them. It has been a sham that Seattle has never had an NHL chance. I'm just glad Winnipeg got their team back last year, now they would never have a chance with a properly organized Seattle contingent. I have no doubt a team in Seattle will happen soon and be a fantastic success.

Also, just a note, but not all of us Canadians have this "our" game mentality...it's selfish and a poor justification for taking glee in seeing other people suffer. There is no difference between Jets1.0, Nordiques or potentially Oilers moving than there is in Thrashers or potentially Islander/Coyotes moving, it all comes down to many diehard fans getting a passion of theirs taken away, it will suck for it to happen to anybody. I will never wish a relocation on any fanbase, but if they do happen they happen for business reasons, does not make moving one direction or another more "justified". Calling moving a professional sports franchise from one city to another a "crime against humanity" is one of the worst exaggerations I have ever heard.

Who is to say NHL hockey will even work in Seattle, if the NBA comes back any NHL team will be the fourth sport in that market maybe even the fifth behind the MLS Sounders. Seattle has supported junior hockey for a number of years but other than that has no real connection with the sport.

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09-25-2012, 12:56 PM
  #350
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Huh Vancouver has the third most expensive average ticket price behind Montreal and Toronto. Katz can probably make more money in Seattle because

1. More seats
2. Big American Market(sponsorships, TV etc)
3. Higher food and drink costs

Average ticket prices may be lower in Seattle when compared to Edmonton when all is said and done but that all makes up for it.
Not according to the numbers I've seen but they're close only a couple bucks seperate Edmonton and Vancouver.

As for your reasons they done make sense. More seats may be true but most likely those extra seats will be empty or significantly discounted especially if the team continues to miss the playoffs whereas in Edmonton they continue to sell out and have a waiting list despite not making the playoffs for 5 years.

Big market might get them some sponsorship money that's true but that money may be split with the arena/other tenants and it's unlikely they'll get as much TV money as they do right now with TSN, Sportsnet and CBC broadcasting the majority of their games and the few remaining games being sold on PPV.

They wont make any more on food in Seattle. Edmonton is a working class town with a lot of Oil workers with money burning a hole in their pocket. They'll spend more on beer and food at a game than a similar size crowd in Seattle.

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