Today I **** out an entire elephant and then flew to the moon. I can type things too, doesn't make it true. We have more than Helm but I have a feeling this is going to be an "everything sucks and I know the future" post from you.
See? Let's say hypothetically they've declined (which if they have isn't by much at all) but they're still two of the best in the world. And losing Lidstrom sucks but we're still very good. It's just a matter of perspective-there's still a ton of teams who would want to be us.
You would find it hard to see if you don't actually think about how we lost. Like I said, it was more effort than skill. If you can't see that I'm very sorry. If you actually believe that stupid garbage about "not being good enough to compete anymore", I don't think you know this sport like you think you do. And I really don't think you can tell the difference between floating and trying.
They don't even have 1 elite goalie. And Pietrangelo is already becoming overrated. They just worked hard and didn't stop skating.
False. Go back and watch those games. Our skill plus some seriously impressive work ethic won it for us. Just like in 2002. But what happened when we got lazy and stopped caring? 2003 and 2004 happened, that's what. Same immense skill give or take a few players, but no drive. And we paid dearly.
We're so obsessed with what we lost that we're not noticing our perspective sucks and we can't see what we already have is still good.
This is how I know you're dense. You're judging a player who hasn't played 1 second for the Wings yet and a guy who hasn't played a second in the NHL yet. But you know best right? You know exactly what Brunner is based off of what, your fear of the future and a few youtube clips? Way to be buddy.
Today I **** out an entire elephant and then flew to the moon. I can type things too, doesn't make it true. We have more than Helm but I have a feeling this is going to be an "everything sucks and I know the future" post from you.
See? Let's say hypothetically they've declined (which if they have isn't by much at all) but they're still two of the best in the world. And losing Lidstrom sucks but we're still very good. It's just a matter of perspective-there's still a ton of teams who would want to be us.
You would find it hard to see if you don't actually think about how we lost. Like I said, it was more effort than skill. If you can't see that I'm very sorry. If you actually believe that stupid garbage about "not being good enough to compete anymore", I don't think you know this sport like you think you do. And I really don't think you can tell the difference between floating and trying.
They don't even have 1 elite goalie. And Pietrangelo is already becoming overrated. They just worked hard and didn't stop skating.
False. Go back and watch those games. Our skill plus some seriously impressive work ethic won it for us. Just like in 2002. But what happened when we got lazy and stopped caring? 2003 and 2004 happened, that's what. Same immense skill give or take a few players, but no drive. And we paid dearly.
We're so obsessed with what we lost that we're not noticing our perspective sucks and we can't see what we already have is still good.
This is how I know you're dense. You're judging a player who hasn't played 1 second for the Wings yet and a guy who hasn't played a second in the NHL yet. But you know best right? You know exactly what Brunner is based off of what, your fear of the future and a few youtube clips? Way to be buddy.
I dont agree that we have more than Helm. You could literally replace the entire bottom six (minus Helm) with random bottom six FA's and get the exact same results. Three straight years of no showing in the playoffs.
It's not hypothetical, they have declined. Z looks slower and his production has dropped off. How much that has to do with him centering a bunch of garbage around him is probably 50%. I really dont care if the Columbus Blue Jackets wish they had the Red Wings roster. I wish this Red Wings roster wasnt the Red Wings roster.
You think its effort, i think it's skill. Too many players who cant produce. Apart from Z, Datsyuk, Flip and occasionally Franzen when he actually feels like showing up, the rest of the forwards are miserable at actually scoring. I am talking about the playoffs . I dont care if Justin Abdelkader scored 20 points in the regular season. The guy is a bum when it counts. Ohhh look, he scored those two goals in 09, time to let him off the hook for the rest of his career.
I really must ask, you keep saying this team is very good. What was last years team? A Stanley Cup contending team? They were good for half of the season and the wheels fell off after that. Do you think the Minnesota Wild were a Stanley Cup contending team because they were #1 in December?
Blues worked hard and never stopped skating and lost in the second round. They beat a horrendous Sharks team. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wings have won their cups on skill. They were a Juggernaut of talent from their first cup to their most recent cup. Wings puck possession and complete domination by elite two way forwards is what got the Wings four cups. The grind line certainly helped, but they certainly weren't the catalyst.
Wings stopped winning after 02 because Yzerman was getting there in age and Z/Datsyuk werent ready yet. The talent declined, the rest of the league began to catch up and the cups stopped piling up.
I am judging Brunner off the fact that he has never played an NHL game. He doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I sort of asked this earlier, but do you think this years team be better than last years team?
Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 08-15-2012 at 12:56 PM.
So when we win it all, our skill triumphs others, and when we lose, it's just because we didn't try enough? You people are delusional.
There's this thing called match-ups, that people need to consider. Do we have more skilled players than Nashville? Yes. But Nashville is a terrible match-up for us. They have a very tall goalie, who we are unable to screen on power plays. They have a good amount of big physical forwards, who made life tough for our small puck moving defenseman. They have several guys on defense willing to lay down and block pucks and clear the crease. They were a terrible match-up for us, and they deserved to beat us. Maybe not because they have more talent, but in a head-to head they certainly got the better of us. Them being a bad match-up may have made it look like our players were "floating", but that's really just a result of being outmatched. They have great personnel to execute a system very well that will stymie a small skilled team, and that is exactly what they did.
I dont agree that we have more than Helm. You could literally replace the entire bottom six (minus Helm) with random bottom six FA's and get the exact same results. Three straight years of no showing in the playoffs.
Then why haven't we? It's easy to look at Tootoo and think "well he was benched" when really that doesn't mean much. It's only been recent, on a bad team, where he wasn't fitting in anymore. It's pretty clear he's valuable. Miller is an outstanding penalty killer and defensive forward, and the PK looked much better with him on it. Abby is Abby, if he was so random we wouldn't sit here for a month making a deal with him. This just sounds like such a spoiled "I want a bottom six like NJ" attitude. Like only the absolute best to us is good.
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It's not hypothetical, they have declined. Z looks slower and his production has dropped off. How much that has to do with him centering a bunch of garbage around him is probably 50%.
Speed looked normal around the end of season and postseason to me. Z's points dropped off for the same reason Flip's took off-roles. Watch the game, Z is doing Flip's old job.
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I really dont care if the Columbus Blue Jackets wish they had the Red Wings roster. I wish this Red Wings roster wasnt the Red Wings roster.
What a brat
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You think its effort, i think it's skill. Too many players who cant produce.
Then you don't know what you're watching when you watch hockey. Sorry. I would've thought this was plainly obvious. Go watch a full game from let's say, game 1 or 2 vs Pitt in 08. Now watch us in 2011 or 2012 against SJ and Nashville. We're clearly dogging it.
And have you seen the thrashing Abby gets around here? I don't think anyone's letting him off the hook. He just is what he is.
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I really must ask, you keep saying this team is very good. What was last years team? A Stanley Cup contending team?
Who would've said the god awful Devils were a contender, until they contended for the Cup and came within a couple games? It's a matter of hard work. We still have Flip, Dats, Z and Franzen as our core and that's assuming no young players will step up eventually, which seems far fetched.
All this is, is the pain of losing Nick, Stu and not signing Suter and a forward. So everything is OMGEENDOFTHEWORLD. No perspective at all. You're not looking at our roster just to look at it, like you're claiming, you're looking at it from the viewpoint above.
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They were good for half of the season and the wheels fell off after that. Do you think the Minnesota Wild were a Stanley Cup contending team because they were #1 in December?
Who the hell thought that? And BTW, horrible comparison. They went from 1st to mising the playoffs .We went from around 1st to 5th and the difference wasn't much. Derp.
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Blues worked hard and never stopped skating and lost in the second round. They beat a horrendous Sharks team. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you ever admit anything or does everything suck and you have to play contrarian every single post? The Blues went down to a team who worked as hard as they did but had better players. But hard work took an average team further than us, who are much more skilled than STL.
And if you really can't admit hard work was a major factor in winning a championship, you're just too stubborn to concede it.
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Wings stopped winning after 02 because Yzerman was getting there in age and Z/Datsyuk werent ready yet.
Yeah, that all happened in a few months right? Yeah, that sounds more logical than our lazy skaters stopped trying. Which they did, especially against EDM.
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I am judging Brunner off the fact that he has never played an NHL game. He doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Guilty until proven innocent, sure, that's intelligent
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I sort of asked this earlier, but do you think this years team be better than last years team?
Nope. And it won't matter if we actually skate.
Unless you want to map out the entire league for me before it begins based on who got better and who didn't. Cause that always determines success LOL
Last edited by GentlemanMasher*: 08-15-2012 at 01:42 PM.
Then why haven't we? It's easy to look at Tootoo and think "well he was benched" when really that doesn't mean much. It's only been recent, on a bad team, where he wasn't fitting in anymore. It's pretty clear he's valuable. Miller is an outstanding penalty killer and defensive forward, and the PK looked much better with him on it. Abby is Abby, if he was so random we wouldn't sit here for a month making a deal with him. This just sounds like such a spoiled "I want a bottom six like NJ" attitude. Like only the absolute best to us is good.
Speed looked normal around the end of season and postseason to me. Z's points dropped off for the same reason Flip's took off-roles. Watch the game, Z is doing Flip's old job.
What a brat
Then you don't know what you're watching when you watch hockey. Sorry. I would've thought this was plainly obvious. Go watch a full game from let's say, game 1 or 2 vs Pitt in 08. Now watch us in 2011 or 2012 against SJ and Nashville. We're clearly dogging it.
And have you seen the thrashing Abby gets around here? I don't think anyone's letting him off the hook. He just is what he is.
Who would've said the god awful Devils were a contender, until they contended for the Cup and came within a couple games? It's a matter of hard work. We still have Flip, Dats, Z and Franzen as our core and that's assuming no young players will step up eventually, which seems far fetched.
All this is, is the pain of losing Nick, Stu and not signing Suter and a forward. So everything is OMGEENDOFTHEWORLD. No perspective at all. You're not looking at our roster just to look at it, like you're claiming, you're looking at it from the viewpoint above.
Who the hell thought that? And BTW, horrible comparison. They went from 1st to mising the playoffs .We went from around 1st to 5th and the difference wasn't much. Derp.
Do you ever admit anything or does everything suck and you have to play contrarian every single post? The Blues went down to a team who worked as hard as they did but had better players. But hard work took an average team further than us, who are much more skilled than STL.
And if you really can't admit hard work was a major factor in winning a championship, you're just too stubborn to concede it.
Yeah, that all happened in a few months right? Yeah, that sounds more logical than our lazy skaters stopped trying. Which they did, especially against EDM.
Guilty until proven innocent, sure, that's intelligent
Nope. And it won't matter if we actually skate.
Unless you want to map out the entire league for me before it begins based on who got better and who didn't. Cause that always determines success LOL
I would say it is no coincidence that every team you cite us "dogging it" against, had a significant physical advantage against us in that series. That could create a false perception that our players are "dogging it", when in actuality they are just losing battles to players who are bigger and faster. That's what happens when you are facing a team with a physical advantage and you match up poorly against. (Nashville, San Jose, probably Edmonton too)
Maybe instead of us not "skating", we were just up against teams comprised of bigger and faster skaters who won battles because of physical advantages. Just maybe. But continue to believe this team plays when they want to play, and then when they do they win Stanley Cups. And tell everyone else how they know nothing about hockey. Carry on.
Why havent we? Ummm is Ken Holland still the GM of the Red Wings? The guy is a hoarder. He loves holding on to garbage well past its expiration date. I dont want the absolute best bottom six. I want a bottom six that isnt worthless in the playoffs.
I have been watching the Wings. You think they still have an extra gear where they can dominate by working hard. I think that the talent just isnt there anymore. They are who they are. Rest of the NHL caught up a long time ago.
Not replacing Stuart or Lidstrom with anything, not even a warm body gives me plenty of perspective. A team that is now defensively flawed and offensively flawed too. Last year the defense was pretty good at even strength, but horrendous on the PK. Now i am expecting an average ES defense with the same horrendous PK.
You keep saying hard work like its the only thing that determines the winner of the cup. It is one of the things that determines who wins a cup, but at the end of the day the Wings arent talented enough to win and dont work as hard. The price you pay for handing out contracts to lazy jacka***es (Franzen) They have to outwork their opponents with less skill. That just isnt reasonable. Kings have a ton of talent and a brick wall for a goaltender. They certainty outworked their opponents, but they were also stacked talent wise. They were expected to contend for the cup and they did. I really have no faith in the Eastern Conference. It's why i always want the Wings in the East.
I am not being a contrarian. The Sharks werent good. They barely made the playoffs and sucked once they got in. I wish the Wings had won a few more games last year and they probably would have beaten that awful Sharks roster.
What point am i not admitting? I know hard work is a requirement for winning a cup.
It took a few years for Z, Datsyuk and eventually Franzen to mature and carry the torch from Yzerman. Where did i say it took a few months? The maturation process directly correlated with playoff wins. Also Babcock finally took over so that was huge. Dave Lewis was garbage.
Damn straight guilty until proven innocent. The guy hasnt done anything for me to say he is going to be good in the NHL. The list is very long for sweet Euro players signing with a team and doing nothing when they arrive in the NHL.
Simply skating better doesnt make up for the loss of Lidstrom and Stuart. It helps, but at the end of the day this years teams is worse than last years team. It sucks, but it is what it is. Here is hoping that Smith and Nyquist have amazing years. Assuming of course Holland doesnt drop Nyquist back in the AHL so Cory Emmerton can continue to dominate in the NHL.
Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 08-15-2012 at 07:54 PM.
I would say it is no coincidence that every team you cite us "dogging it" against, had a significant physical advantage against us in that series. That could create a false perception that our players are "dogging it", when in actuality they are just losing battles to players who are bigger and faster. That's what happens when you are facing a team with a physical advantage and you match up poorly against. (Nashville, San Jose, probably Edmonton too)
Maybe instead of us not "skating", we were just up against teams comprised of bigger and faster skaters who won battles because of physical advantages. Just maybe. But continue to believe this team plays when they want to play, and then when they do they win Stanley Cups. And tell everyone else how they know nothing about hockey. Carry on.
Who the hell said we'd automatically win a Cup? I was talking about the past, not the future. The original point was we're not bad yet, I didn't say anything about another Cup. But if the Devils can make it there with that team, so can we. And dogging it isn't just physical battles, it's everywhere. Not skating to catch up to your assignment fast enough, not covering the right guy because you felt like taking the easier play, not going for loose pucks because meh, someone else will. I call it Franzen syndrome and it's pretty easy to spread in a team sport.I mean look at them, how could anyone even doubt it? Has it really been that slow coming over the years that it's been that hard to notice? I'm not kidding, go back and watch us 4 years ago. The skill is there, you don't magically lose skill, that's just clueless. We're either tired or careless.
Sorry wingedwheel1987, I'm not going to guess what you're replying to. You're underestimating my laziness.
The biggest thing you can say about the Wings effort and whether or not you believe it was there is we need a solid year on the road and at home. This good one place but not the other will not work next year. They cannot rely on that to iron things out, that is how I have felt the last two years. They just prefer one over the other and don't fix issues because of how much they are outplaying the league in one category it gives a false sense of security. I would like us to look like the same team on the road and at home, might not be the awesome level we have been at either the past two years but overall I think that would help a ton.
Great find.
