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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: NHL and GJ, Put Up or Shut Up!

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:46 PM
  #51
ssmatik
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Last year the AZ gaming tribes contributed a whole $11 million for cities towns and counties statewide.

http://www.gm.state.az.us/tcontribut...tive060112.pdf

The tribes also have power to decide which of those entities receive the contributions.

The casino would be located at 91st Ave and Northern Ave. To the south is undeveloped land. To the east, is Raymond Kellis High School and Rovey Farms residential communities. To the west, Loop 101. To the north, the city of Peoria (Northern Ave is the city limit).

Now how does this benefit Glendale????
As someone who lives down the street from the site and is also a business owner in Glendale, I have to put my two cents in here. I fully support the casino for the following reasons:

1. An independent study back when there were less casinos (early 2000s) reported that the casinos spent over 250 million dollars outside of the reservations. I'd bet it's a lot more now.
2. The workers will need to spend their income somewhere. They won't be driving up from the reservation every day. They will need housing, food and clothing.
3. The construction of the resort will add quite a bit to the economy including helping local suppliers.
4. The property was not obtained by some sort of trickery or slight of hand. A deal was made in good faith and anyone saying different is a major fabricator of facts.
5. Everyone likes to say that the resort will attract the derelicts of society. This place is high end. look at the plans. I'd guess that over half their clients will be coming from the Sun City/ Arrowhead area. It might surprise you to find out that these are some of the wealthiest zip codes in the state.

The city of Glendale has screwed the pooch on this one and now they are simply in the game to stop Peoria from enjoying the fruits of their unwavering support. Glendale's report that city services will increase is a lie. They are simply attempting to say that police that are already on patrol in that district will now be responsible for patrolling the same exact area but it's now because of the casino.

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Old
09-19-2012, 10:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ssmatik View Post
As someone who lives down the street from the site and is also a business owner in Glendale, I have to put my two cents in here. I fully support the casino for the following reasons:

1. An independent study back when there were less casinos (early 2000s) reported that the casinos spent over 250 million dollars outside of the reservations. I'd bet it's a lot more now.
2. The workers will need to spend their income somewhere. They won't be driving up from the reservation every day. They will need housing, food and clothing.
3. The construction of the resort will add quite a bit to the economy including helping local suppliers.
4. The property was not obtained by some sort of trickery or slight of hand. A deal was made in good faith and anyone saying different is a major fabricator of facts.
5. Everyone likes to say that the resort will attract the derelicts of society. This place is high end. look at the plans. I'd guess that over half their clients will be coming from the Sun City/ Arrowhead area. It might surprise you to find out that these are some of the wealthiest zip codes in the state.

The city of Glendale has screwed the pooch on this one and now they are simply in the game to stop Peoria from enjoying the fruits of their unwavering support. Glendale's report that city services will increase is a lie. They are simply attempting to say that police that are already on patrol in that district will now be responsible for patrolling the same exact area but it's now because of the casino.

1.) $250 million spent on what?? And how much did Glendale get?

2.) What businesses and where would these workers go? You are aware of the layout of the area. You should realize all the immediate neighboring businesses are in Peoria. How does Glendale benefit?? I worked for 6 years in a hotel casino in Nevada and I can guarantee most of the employees (2,000+) went home after work.

3.) Local suppliers *might* benefit. However the Tohonos already have 2-3 other casinos in southern AZ. They might be inclined to use those suppliers they already work with instead.

4.) The property was obtained using a holding company with a name that had no connection to a Native-American tribe. Nobody knew the tribe had bought the property until they went public (years later) with the casino plans and application to take the property into the reservation. It may have been perfectly legal.... but it draws suspect.

5.) Like it or not... the derelicts will come. I've had family members robbed at gunpoint by people who were followed home from an indian casino after winning a jackpot. It happens more often than you realize.

Increased traffic to the area demands increased patrols. Which translates to increased costs to Glendale. Or did you think Glendale will survive with the one or two patrol cars in that area now?

This has never been about Glendale wanting to stick it to Peoria. OTOH... Peoria recently stuck it to the other WV cities when they reneged on paying their $1.25 million share into the Northern Avenue expansion project because "it would disturb the quality of life for residents along the corridor."

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Old
09-19-2012, 10:50 PM
  #53
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Love the message here. We don't want anything to do with gambling, but Gila River Casinos are free to be our sponsor.


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Old
09-19-2012, 11:15 PM
  #54
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I think what bothers people is how the land was acquired. If Gila had the land already it would have been apart of the heavily negotiated agreement. And I doubt they would have put a school next to it. But I can understand businesses who see a chance to increase revenues.

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:50 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
1.) $250 million spent on what?? And how much did Glendale get?

2.) What businesses and where would these workers go? You are aware of the layout of the area. You should realize all the immediate neighboring businesses are in Peoria. How does Glendale benefit?? I worked for 6 years in a hotel casino in Nevada and I can guarantee most of the employees (2,000+) went home after work.

3.) Local suppliers *might* benefit. However the Tohonos already have 2-3 other casinos in southern AZ. They might be inclined to use those suppliers they already work with instead.

4.) The property was obtained using a holding company with a name that had no connection to a Native-American tribe. Nobody knew the tribe had bought the property until they went public (years later) with the casino plans and application to take the property into the reservation. It may have been perfectly legal.... but it draws suspect.

5.) Like it or not... the derelicts will come. I've had family members robbed at gunpoint by people who were followed home from an indian casino after winning a jackpot. It happens more often than you realize.

Increased traffic to the area demands increased patrols. Which translates to increased costs to Glendale. Or did you think Glendale will survive with the one or two patrol cars in that area now?

This has never been about Glendale wanting to stick it to Peoria. OTOH... Peoria recently stuck it to the other WV cities when they reneged on paying their $1.25 million share into the Northern Avenue expansion project because "it would disturb the quality of life for residents along the corridor."
1. Well none of it went to Glendale. There wasn't a casino there????

2. You lost me. Do the Indians have some secret underground market place where they spend their money? There are a substantial number of struggling businesses less than a mile to the south. Including an outlet mall on the way. No we all know that people that go to resorts generally only shop at Kohls and eat at Applebees.

3. Local suppliers will benefit. Theres a reason why Glendale is complaining about the resort taking away from tax paying businesses while every business owner I associate with is in favor of the resort. The city doesn't care about protecting business, they care about the business of politics. Don't let them fool you. I deal with them every week. I own a successful business in spite of them.. not because of them.

4. Glendale's reaction to the resort is the exact reason why they used Rainer to complete the deal.

5. I've been out to several of the "resort" casinos. Just not seeing the same clientele that you are.

Traffic studies have indicated (and the resort has indicated that they will avoid 95th Ave.) most traffic will exit the 101 on to Northern and enter the resort. Oddly enough, any traffic in Glendale will likely be heading to Westgate or Cabelas.

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Old
09-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #56
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Doan’s decision to stay with Coyotes offers hope

Quote:
We want Westgate City Center and the businesses there to succeed as envisioned. We don’t want Glendale taxpayers to suffer from city leaders’ unrealized plans and unfulfilled promises. We want the Stanley Cup to sport a desert glow.
http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/ar...-all-hope.html

First time I have seen a positive spin from their editorial board.

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09-20-2012, 11:01 AM
  #57
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@LisaHalverstadt
Quote:
Mayor Elaine Scruggs on #Coyotes deal: #Glendale has given team suitor Greg Jamison “more than one alternative to consider.”

Scruggs told me last night that #Glendale is waiting to see if Jamison will agree to one of the options.

Scruggs said the alternatives don't include the lease approved by the #Glendale City Council in June.
https://twitter.com/LisaHalverstadt

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:07 PM
  #58
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. jswhalen1 Interim City Manager Horatio Skeete has said he hopes to resolve the Coyotes situation by the end of the month.
https://twitter.com/LisaHalverstadt

Two weeks guys!............oh... wait....


Last edited by Naurutger: 09-20-2012 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Just added the source
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Old
09-20-2012, 04:47 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmatik View Post
1. Well none of it went to Glendale. There wasn't a casino there????

2. You lost me. Do the Indians have some secret underground market place where they spend their money? There are a substantial number of struggling businesses less than a mile to the south. Including an outlet mall on the way. No we all know that people that go to resorts generally only shop at Kohls and eat at Applebees.

3. Local suppliers will benefit. Theres a reason why Glendale is complaining about the resort taking away from tax paying businesses while every business owner I associate with is in favor of the resort. The city doesn't care about protecting business, they care about the business of politics. Don't let them fool you. I deal with them every week. I own a successful business in spite of them.. not because of them.

4. Glendale's reaction to the resort is the exact reason why they used Rainer to complete the deal.

5. I've been out to several of the "resort" casinos. Just not seeing the same clientele that you are.

Traffic studies have indicated (and the resort has indicated that they will avoid 95th Ave.) most traffic will exit the 101 on to Northern and enter the resort. Oddly enough, any traffic in Glendale will likely be heading to Westgate or Cabelas.
You know we could go on and on about this.... and in the end neither one of us is going to budge from our position..... and this isn't the proper thread for it anyway.

Everything I have put forward in this is based on actual experience working in and around the gaming business itself, and some real numbers I put links to. What I see from you is "studies say this" or the tribe promises that.... or whatever.

Casinos are NOT the panacea everyone wants to believe they are. But if you want to believe it... so be it.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:46 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmatik View Post
5. Everyone likes to say that the resort will attract the derelicts of society. This place is high end. look at the plans. I'd guess that over half their clients will be coming from the Sun City/ Arrowhead area. It might surprise you to find out that these are some of the wealthiest zip codes in the state.
I don't think it's fair to say they attract derelicts but they do tend to attract and prey upon poor decision makers. As for high end...c'mon man, don't make this awkward.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:51 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
You know we could go on and on about this.... and in the end neither one of us is going to budge from our position..... and this isn't the proper thread for it anyway.

Everything I have put forward in this is based on actual experience working in and around the gaming business itself, and some real numbers I put links to. What I see from you is "studies say this" or the tribe promises that.... or whatever.

Casinos are NOT the panacea everyone wants to believe they are. But if you want to believe it... so be it.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:56 PM
  #62
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http://localistica.com/usa/az/zipcod...come-zipcodes/

Here is something I found on all zip codes, my it would have been nice to stick the stadium in PV. My code shows the area as $0 so I might have been fired?

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Old
09-20-2012, 10:55 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I don't think it's fair to say they attract derelicts but they do tend to attract and prey upon poor decision makers. As for high end...c'mon man, don't make this awkward.
Quote:
The Tohono O'odham Indian Nation has worked for more than five years to acquire the 134 acres for the project, Chairman Ned Norris Jr. said Thursday.

The land, in unincorporated Maricopa County, is situated a bit more than a mile north of the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale and east of the Loop 101 freeway.

The planned 1.2 million-square-foot casino and resort, currently being called the West Valley Resort at Northern Avenue, will be Arizona's largest.

Norris said the tribe will spend more than $500 million on the 600-room resort with spas, restaurants, convention center and casino. Once work starts on what is expected to be a two-year building project, Norris said it will produce 6,000 construction and 3,000 permanent jobs.
http://ktar.com/?sid=1034928&nid=131

It's all kind of pointless what we think anyway.
The project is pretty dead anyway so we will never know anyway.
Maybe the city can buy the land and build a giant office building to sit
empty next to the other albatross sitting on the properties southern border


Last edited by Naurutger: 09-20-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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09-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #64
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Economy crashes in 2008ish, casino is announced in January 2009, Coyotes BK in May 2009. Drove all the Council nuts in a short time so that explains them now.

Sign the deal so I can start showing as much interest in Glendale's Council as I do my own....obviously not a lot.

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Old
09-21-2012, 02:01 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmatik View Post
http://ktar.com/?sid=1034928&nid=131

It's all kind of pointless what we think anyway.
The project is pretty dead anyway so we will never know anyway.
Maybe the city can buy the land and build a giant office building to sit
empty next to the other albatross sitting on the properties southern border
haha even the article you pointed out put "high end" in quotes.

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:36 AM
  #66
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All is Quiet on the Western Front.

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09-24-2012, 10:58 AM
  #67
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A few days old:

Glendale may give Greg Jamison Sept. 30 deadline to change Coyotes deal

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...n-sept-30.html

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09-24-2012, 08:19 PM
  #68
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All is Quiet on the Western Front.
There's always tonight's city council meeting. They going to be discussing the pending apocalypse from tax initiatives.

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09-24-2012, 08:39 PM
  #69
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Maybe the COG could entice Daryl Katz & his entourage to swing by jobing.com Arena on his west coast tour after he's through in Seattle, suggest the Oilers could share the arena with the Coyotes at least during the lockout...

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Old
09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #70
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Glendale braces for deep cuts if sales tax is repealed

Quote:
A workshop has been scheduled for 1:30 p.m. Tuesday in the City Council chambers and will be open to the public.
http://www.kpho.com/story/19634085/g...ax-is-repealed

1:30 agenda:
http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...das/092512.pdf

Watch:
http://glendale-az.granicus.com/Medi...p?publish_id=4

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09-25-2012, 04:33 PM
  #71
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I feel very strongly that by Friday, there will be a very clear indication on how this thing is going to end up. Stay or go.

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09-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #72
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I feel very strongly that by Friday, there will be a very clear indication on how this thing is going to end up. Stay or go.
I'd be willing to bet that not one thing will be even one bit more clear.

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09-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #73
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Ha Ha, never fails:

@clarkjv
Quote:
Liebs taking short siesta...just gave a gentle little snore.
Take it for what its worth but via twitter, heard Jamison is in town. Sunnucks said he heard that also. #spreadingrumors

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09-25-2012, 07:49 PM
  #74
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I'd be willing to bet that not one thing will be even one bit more clear.
I'm with this.

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Old
09-25-2012, 09:53 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54590099
Liebs taking short siesta...just gave a gentle little snore. "
I just hope it was a snore.


Last edited by KevyD: 09-26-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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