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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part III (First 2 weeks of season cancelled)

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Old
09-25-2012, 05:31 PM
  #26
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Edmonton, Calgary and Montreal will play for the Stanley Cup this year since their labor provincial laws require workers to be paid.

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09-25-2012, 05:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
sabres fan in peace here:

I'm a recent NYC transplant, what are my inperson hockey viewing options if we have an extended lockout?
Bridgeport's an hour and change away on the Metro North, and the Isles affiliate plays there. The Whale will play there several times, I already have my tickets, lockout or no

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09-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #28
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Seattle wants an NHL team.

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Old
09-25-2012, 06:39 PM
  #29
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Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger aren't optimistic there will be a season. LeBrun thinks there will be a season.

Quote:
Meeting is better than not meeting, but I still don't like the look of how any of this is playing out.
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...46392345874433

http://watch.tsn.ca/clip769212#clip769212

Everyone assumes there will be a CBA struck after missing a season. These guys don't know Fehr. The start of the 13-14 will be jeopardy if there isn't a CBA struck to play some type of season in 12-13.

Chris Johnston spoke to a veteran labor negotiator about the meeting on Friday

Quote:
While a significant economic gulf remains this time around, at least one veteran negotiator believes it's a good sign the NHL and NHLPA are willing to discuss issues such as pensions, grievance procedures and travel in the meantime.

"It means that once they settle the economic issues they want to start playing right away," said the negotiator, who requested anonymity.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...171192151.html

Bill Daly and Steve Fehr agreed to work on these issues and go from there. These issues will need to decided whenever they get a new CBA done. Daly has indicated they were close and had come to tentative agreements on some issues. Why not finalize them and go from there?

Daly spoke to LeBrun three weeks ago

Quote:
"I think it's been different in a lot of respects," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday. "At least with respect to a lot of the issues that need to be discussed and worked out, we ploughed a lot of ground in that area and made some progress. I think we have some tentative agreement to some things, we have teed up issues in other areas -- so from that perspective we had a good summer of negotiation.

"Each side was also able to express where they are on the economics of the deal. Some of the system issues, those still need to be resolved. There hasn't been a lot of movement on those issues. And they are the critical issues to setting off all the dominos. We're focused on those issues exclusively right now."
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/83...te-discussions

The NBA solved the 49%-51% BRI at the end of the negotiations.

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Old
09-25-2012, 08:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
We're currently at 47% on the owners' side and 57% on the players' side (with room to move down if the league grows revenues by a significant amount). The owners have 3 points to close to the best case end point while the players have 7. The owners made the last proposal.
I thought the last players proposal delinked the cap.

Your characterization of the whole process omits a bunch. The last thing the league did, in terms of offers, was to give an ultimatum. Putting something on the table with the comment of "take this or else it will be worse later" is not a proposal.

I agree that both sides need to compromise and I agree that the players should most likely move further off their position that the owners (since the league has the leverage), but the idea that the owners have been the reasonable ones here is flat out laughable. The NHL and Bettman's stance has been to bully and cajole the players into accepting a deal that represents a massive concession of a 20% cut in salary immediately (whether there's a rollback or an escrow increase, it's the same effect). They've refused to do anything more than touch on the issues that could have gotten some traction and good will between the two sides (although that seems like it's going to change on Friday), citing the need to resolve the core economic issue first, as if all of these issues didn't need addressing up front.

Both sides are being obstinate, but in the case of the players, my feeling is that, right now, they have a right to be. They're the one's who got run over in the previous negotiation (whether or not they benefited overall isn't the point. They would've benefited even more without the steamrolling). The NHLPA hired Fehr specifically not to have a repeat of that history and right now, they're showing their resolve; proving a point. This tactic is as much about the CBA they'll negotiate this year as it is about the next one. Look, I want them to compromise too, but I don't want the PA to cave. It's in the union's best interest that as many teams in the league be profitable. It's not the union's responsibility to make that profitability idiot proof.

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Old
09-25-2012, 08:42 PM
  #31
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I'm stupid when it comes to all of this HRR crap and escrow. I try and understand. Whatever I read from all of you I believe.

Anyway, when does a deal need to be in place in order to play a full 82 game season???

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09-25-2012, 08:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
I'm stupid when it comes to all of this HRR crap and escrow. I try and understand. Whatever I read from all of you I believe.

Anyway, when does a deal need to be in place in order to play a full 82 game season???
I would think that somewhere around October 1-4 for no cancellation of any games. Very short training camps.

If they solve it during the following week, before the technical start of the season, I would still be surprised to see an 82 game schedule. But I wouldn't be surprised to see an 80 game one.

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Old
09-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I would think that somewhere around October 1-4 for no cancellation of any games. Very short training camps.

If they solve it during the following week, before the technical start of the season, I would still be surprised to see an 82 game schedule. But I wouldn't be surprised to see an 80 game one.
So pretty much before October... Yeah, I don't see that happening. lol Thanks man.

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09-25-2012, 08:51 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
So pretty much before October... Yeah, I don't see that happening. lol Thanks man.
One never knows.

The NBA and NBAPA went from being far apart and intractable to having an agreement in the span of 2 days.

Which is why, despite anyone's firsthand knowledge or secondhand analysis, I don't put any stock in people (including myself from a month or two ago) who are predicting how long this thing will or won't last. Too much personal emotion and outlook coloring things.

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Old
09-26-2012, 04:05 AM
  #35
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Pierre McGuire thinks the lockout will be over by Thanksgiving Weekend. He was in Nashville last week for a charity event and the Preds players told him they want the play. The players have told him they want to play. The owners he has spoken with have told him they want to play. 10 day training camp.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...labor-meeting/

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09-26-2012, 07:54 AM
  #36
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The NHL has shown more flexibilty this time. They backed off their idea of changing the HRR formula. They backed off their insistence that the core economic stuff get settled first and then they will deal with the other stuff. Bettman and the owners have been more flexible so far than they were in 04-05. Some of the hard liners aren't so militant this time. Not really sure which owners are hardliners or extremists this time. The expanded revenue sharing pool helps the smaller market teams. If the owners can get off their insistence on immediate cuts in salaries and put a cap on escrow,they could get a deal done soon. Larry Brooks proposed 5% escrow cap. NBA has a 10% cap on escrow. The players lost 3% of their salaries in escrow in the 2005 CBA. The PA says the players will lose 15%-20% in escrow while the NHL says its 10%-12% based on the NHL's latest offer.

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09-26-2012, 08:18 AM
  #37
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Ok, which side would oppose a deal where the cap stays at the current value ($70 million) until the new players' share of 50% of revenue catches up? Make the CBA at least six years long.

That way no salary needs to be cut and the owners will get their desired split of revenue.

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Old
09-26-2012, 08:29 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Both sides are being obstinate, but in the case of the players, my feeling is that, right now, they have a right to be. They're the one's who got run over in the previous negotiation (whether or not they benefited overall isn't the point. They would've benefited even more without the steamrolling). The NHLPA hired Fehr specifically not to have a repeat of that history and right now, they're showing their resolve; proving a point. This tactic is as much about the CBA they'll negotiate this year as it is about the next one. Look, I want them to compromise too, but I don't want the PA to cave. It's in the union's best interest that as many teams in the league be profitable. It's not the union's responsibility to make that profitability idiot proof.

This is essentially the issue when it comes to the NHLPA... they know they're not getting 57% anymore... no one thinks they should. But how long will they hold out to make their point? Do they have to scare the owners into thinking they will go so far as to lose another season? Do they have to hurt the owners? Do they have to cause a lost season on their part just to drive home the point that they're not soft?

How far this goes is largely based upon posturing and pride... unfortunately it's not about finding an amicable solution.

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09-26-2012, 09:18 AM
  #39
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Rangers are supposed to be playing the Flyers tonight...

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09-26-2012, 09:29 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
Rangers are supposed to be playing the Flyers tonight...
I think it was supposed to be Devils. (3) preseason games are shown on my calendar subscription this week.

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Old
09-26-2012, 09:48 AM
  #41
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Any word on MSG covering the Whale during the lockout?

Has MSG Network said anything about broadcasting all of the Whale games during the lockout? It would sure take some of the sting away.

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Old
09-26-2012, 10:00 AM
  #42
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Why?

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Old
09-26-2012, 10:06 AM
  #43
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I too would be very interested in knowning the answer to this.

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09-26-2012, 10:19 AM
  #44
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Maybe they'll cycle them through all of the hockey channels (MSG+, MSG2, MSG+2)

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Old
09-26-2012, 10:19 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bickel41 View Post
Why?
So we can still see members of our organization play hockey this year? Wouldn't you like to watch Kreider, Miller, Thomas, Yogan and McIlrath play meaningful games?

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09-26-2012, 10:43 AM
  #46
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Why?
Really?

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:10 AM
  #47
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This needs to end and soon….. If I have to watch Oil Change one more time on the NHL Network…… Something is getting shot…..
HAHAHAHAHA..... I know the feeling.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:16 AM
  #48
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This needs to end and soon….. If I have to watch Oil Change one more time on the NHL Network…… Something is getting shot…..
What? Don't you like to listen to Mr. Cliche/gum chewer Renney?

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:28 AM
  #49
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The NHL has shown more flexibilty this time. They backed off their idea of changing the HRR formula. They backed off their insistence that the core economic stuff get settled first and then they will deal with the other stuff. Bettman and the owners have been more flexible so far than they were in 04-05. Some of the hard liners aren't so militant this time. Not really sure which owners are hardliners or extremists this time. The expanded revenue sharing pool helps the smaller market teams. If the owners can get off their insistence on immediate cuts in salaries and put a cap on escrow,they could get a deal done soon. Larry Brooks proposed 5% escrow cap. NBA has a 10% cap on escrow. The players lost 3% of their salaries in escrow in the 2005 CBA. The PA says the players will lose 15%-20% in escrow while the NHL says its 10%-12% based on the NHL's latest offer.
Don Fehr is the wildcard here. He was not affiliated with the NHL last time, and I hope he knows hes not dealing with a sport as popular as MLB.

You've got 2 guys negotiating that are directly associated with the only 2 instances where a finals weren't played due to work stoppages. 2 stubborn guys, for sure. Thats what scares me.

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09-26-2012, 11:31 AM
  #50
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So we can still see members of our organization play hockey this year? Wouldn't you like to watch Kreider, Miller, Thomas, Yogan and McIlrath play meaningful games?
Yeah, and nobody seems to have the answer. Might have to ask around. I've been asking this question for work - would definitely make it interesting if we can watch the Whale.

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