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EA Sports Syndrome

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Old
09-25-2012, 03:42 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
NHL criminally underates prospects. This year Huberdeau is a 69 overall with 3 star potential.
No he isn't. He has 4.5 star potential. Update your rosters

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09-25-2012, 04:04 PM
  #52
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Player values are severely out of wack, at least they were in 12. Haven't gotten 13 yet, planning to if reviews are good.

I rebuilt the Wild and I needed to dump cap, but the only great GM relationship I had was with the Rangers.

So Koivu had a 6.5/year cap hit. Dubinsky had a 3.3/year hit, and I needed a good two-way PK guy.

I offer Koivu-Dubinsky straight up.

Declines.

WTF.

He only agrees after I add a 1st.

I also tried trading Wolski for Rosival like what happened IRL.

Phoenix: Go **** yourself.

And trying to acquire the Malkins, Crosbys, and Ovechkins are a pain. Even when you're overpaying by a long shot (pretty much giving your entire 2nd and 3rd lines plus a ton of 1st rounders), they still decline. Even Kovalchuk for Ovechkin when both values match up will only happen if you add a first.

I got Nash for just Anisimov and a 1st.

Also, draft picks are the only way to actually assemble a team. It's close to impossible to get a straight-up deal done. And if you actually use your picks, you'll take a loss on your value. First-round prospects are only worth a 2nd at most.


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Old
09-25-2012, 04:08 PM
  #53
RandV
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From what I can tell something like an 'EA Sports Syndrome' is not so much about the game, or a particular year of the game, overvaluing the worth of prospects... that's actually an HFBoards Syndrome. Rather it's the manner in which trading is conducted with the AI GM's. Players are a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet and everyone can be available, it's just a matter of clicking more names into the offer to balance out calculations. As someone else pointed out earlier you can see this when someone makes a large proposal and has a random 3rd and 5th round pick thrown in.

That said, this isn't the only thing that makes trade talk nonsensical around here. In my opinion the biggest problem is people take things way too seriously. Anytime someone throws up a 'trade proposal' thread, while it may not be the OP's actual intent and though this is supposed to be the "Trade Rumours" board we're basically conducting fantasy talk: harmless and meaningless. Yet the way people respond they're practically insulted that someone asks about trading for another teams valuable player, and they act like a trade may actually happen if they don't step in to arguing to inflate their players and/or devaluing the other sides players.

Honestly things would probably be a lot cleaner if they moved the "Trade Proposal" or "Value of" tags to the fantasy talk section, but that would disrupt traffic on the site so it's not going to happen.

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Old
09-25-2012, 04:30 PM
  #54
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Meh, people get twisted when we say Luongo wouldn't return Bjugstad. But that's real world. Some teams, like the Panthers, want to grow from within and see that as the more important way to go. Using prospects with potential as a way to grow is how all major sports teams do it and its not always wise to ship them out for players who may not fit. We've already stripped the cupboard on dumb trades and it put us further behind.

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09-25-2012, 05:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by lukasfindl View Post
You are buying into the video game illusion. That ea sports is somehow creating a realistic model of the professional NA Hockey. This isnt true. They are making a game, that people with too much time on their hands can easily waste their time with. Obviously they rate proven players and high draft picks higher, because reality is way too hard to model.

Every computer game is deeply flawed. I played a lot of computer games, and none of them were really good.
Just because it is a computer game or is intended for a casual audience doesn't mean it can be unreasonably inaccurate. The point of a videogame is immersion. When I can pull off some crazy trade that wouldn't work in real life or am forced to utilize an unrealistic lineup, that jars me out of the immersion.

EA has been pushing away from an arcade-y style of game for a while now.

The accuracy of player stats in NHL 13 pales in comparison to the Madden line and the Be A GM features pale in comparison to FIFA's line.

Maintaining realistic stats for NHL players and high tier prospects for each team is relatively simple to do for the development team. FIFA changes player stats weekly to track real life.

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09-25-2012, 05:30 PM
  #56
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The NHL ratings are absolutely atrocious. The rate Hall/Ebs/RNH ridiculously low while overrating guys like Cam Barker, Ryan Whitney, and Peckham. The Oilers actually have a highly rated defense even though it's obvious to anyone that was remotely paying attention last season that the defense was the downfall of the team.

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09-25-2012, 05:40 PM
  #57
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Depends on what NHL we're talking about. NHL 11 trades were far more accurate than most of the crap we see on here. In NHL 12 on the other hand the trades were completely deformed, and getting a yes or no on a trade was basically a coin toss.

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Old
09-25-2012, 06:03 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Just because it is a computer game or is intended for a casual audience doesn't mean it can be unreasonably inaccurate. The point of a videogame is immersion. When I can pull off some crazy trade that wouldn't work in real life or am forced to utilize an unrealistic lineup, that jars me out of the immersion.

EA has been pushing away from an arcade-y style of game for a while now.

The accuracy of player stats in NHL 13 pales in comparison to the Madden line and the Be A GM features pale in comparison to FIFA's line.

Maintaining realistic stats for NHL players and high tier prospects for each team is relatively simple to do for the development team. FIFA changes player stats weekly to track real life.
FIFA is just a better sports game. But idiots like me will spend money on the NHL franchise because I'm a sucker. They shouldn't be releasing a game every year. A year isn't enough time to develop a game which is why every game looks the same every year and the new stuff they add is always broken.

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09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
  #59
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i don't see it to be honest.

probably has more to do with being "hockey's Future" board more than anything else.

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Old
09-25-2012, 06:46 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
FIFA is just a better sports game. But idiots like me will spend money on the NHL franchise because I'm a sucker. They shouldn't be releasing a game every year. A year isn't enough time to develop a game which is why every game looks the same every year and the new stuff they add is always broken.
It actually is considering the game hardly changes from a year to the other.

It's a matter of taking the good of previous years and building on it. I mean, just look at what modders have done with NHL 2004.

The crux of the issue is that since EA always had fickle (2K) to no competition in the ice hockey realm they never have quite the incentive to blow minds year after year - if anything, the franchise seemed to have regressed at points, perhaps intentionally. Hold back new features from being released so that you can add them for later releases, casually remove old features and re-introduced them later...

Seriously, I still can't believe you could only look at a player's last four statistical seasons in NHL 12, with EA citing it as a move to improve performance. What the hell? Even when I played the half-assed NHL 09 PC port I could at least check out a player's performance over the course of his whole career.

FIFA keeps improving because they always have some competition from PES and other fringe developers so they need to keep themselves ahead of the curve. Recent NBA 2K games have been amazing because they know the game needs to be great in order to beat out EA (who are likely looking at every chance to re-take the basketball gaming market).

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Old
09-25-2012, 06:51 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
FIFA is just a better sports game. But idiots like me will spend money on the NHL franchise because I'm a sucker. They shouldn't be releasing a game every year. A year isn't enough time to develop a game which is why every game looks the same every year and the new stuff they add is always broken.
The ideal model would be to have a standard development cycle where developers can actually work on building a new game without having to meet strict annual deadlines, that will be released when ready for the standard price. For the seasons in between, release roster updates as DLC for around $20 or so. Ideally you keep development separate from the ratings people.

Of course that's never going to happen since that would make EA less money. Although gamers here more or less got what they deserved, if you look back at the rabid 2K vs EA fanboy wars.

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Old
09-25-2012, 09:28 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandV View Post
From what I can tell something like an 'EA Sports Syndrome' is not so much about the game, or a particular year of the game, overvaluing the worth of prospects... that's actually an HFBoards Syndrome. Rather it's the manner in which trading is conducted with the AI GM's. Players are a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet and everyone can be available, it's just a matter of clicking more names into the offer to balance out calculations. As someone else pointed out earlier you can see this when someone makes a large proposal and has a random 3rd and 5th round pick thrown in.

That said, this isn't the only thing that makes trade talk nonsensical around here. In my opinion the biggest problem is people take things way too seriously. Anytime someone throws up a 'trade proposal' thread, while it may not be the OP's actual intent and though this is supposed to be the "Trade Rumours" board we're basically conducting fantasy talk: harmless and meaningless. Yet the way people respond they're practically insulted that someone asks about trading for another teams valuable player, and they act like a trade may actually happen if they don't step in to arguing to inflate their players and/or devaluing the other sides players.
There's many reasons for that, but the biggest IMO is that it's well known that there's a lot of folks who form their impressions of players and sometimes even whole teams from the discussions here - so you can end up with all sorts of madness occurring just as a result of the groupthink that emerges here. Every team's fanbase suffers from that to a degree, but it gets particularly awkward with several of the Canadian teams - particularly Toronto and Edmonton thanks to lunatic fringe fans dominating the conversation on "behalf" of those teams.

It also used to be a bloody epidemic (and is still quite prevalent, sadly) for fans of teams that the groupthink hivemind had concluded doesn't actually have any fans at all, let alone knowledgeable ones. That's what prompted my coming here, in fact - folks infected with such madness started invading the CBJ boards and getting overwhelmingly belligerent with us any time we dared to suggest their assumptions were maybe a tad off-kilter. We'd get insults on our own boards about how we clearly didn't know a damn thing about hockey whenever we suggested that Rick Nash for Tlusty and Ponikarovsky and maybe a 3rd was not necessarily in our best interests, or no we're not interested in two second round picks for Gilbert Brule, and folks would get overwhelmingly hostile whenever we'd have to tell them that we were and are not actually located in the Southern United States.

(Sadly, that history admittedly still tends to impact my responses here to the present day, even though that was like four or five years ago. Although the relatively recent surge of lunatic fringe Oil fans asking for - nay, demanding - Ryan Johansen has not exactly helped.)

To be fair, there genuinely is some signal to be found among all the noise, but to make real use of it you need a high-quality version of what Carl Sagan referred to as a "baloney detection kit" and a lot of patience. And I don't have enough of the latter.

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Old
09-26-2012, 07:27 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Don't disagree with anything else you said, but Schultz is a poor example IMO. He got a lot of hype and attention because he was a free asset with top 4 -- heck, maybe top pair -- upside that, at his stage of development, might be able to succeed in the NHL right now.

I doubt there were 27 GM's clamoring to get him from Anaheim a year ago, and I doubt anyone but Edmonton's GM cares about him now that he's signed. But obviously when an asset like that hits FA, any GM with room for another contract is probably going to make an offer.
The other GMs only care because the Schultz contract becomes the benchmark for the next free agent collegiate defenseman. Agents love them some comparables. Therefore, overpaying for a free asset impacts business down the line for every team. I'm not saying Edmonton necessarily overpaid but that contract sets the bar.

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09-26-2012, 10:41 AM
  #64
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The other GMs only care because the Schultz contract becomes the benchmark for the next free agent collegiate defenseman. Agents love them some comparables. Therefore, overpaying for a free asset impacts business down the line for every team. I'm not saying Edmonton necessarily overpaid but that contract sets the bar.
Next free agent collegiate?

There are no benchmarks for these contracts, the teams try to outbid eachother and the most tempting offer wins.

The impact is more in the fact that Schultz managed to get UFA status and thus get UFA money.

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09-26-2012, 11:50 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Just because it is a computer game or is intended for a casual audience doesn't mean it can be unreasonably inaccurate. The point of a videogame is immersion. When I can pull off some crazy trade that wouldn't work in real life or am forced to utilize an unrealistic lineup, that jars me out of the immersion.

EA has been pushing away from an arcade-y style of game for a while now.

The accuracy of player stats in NHL 13 pales in comparison to the Madden line and the Be A GM features pale in comparison to FIFA's line.

Maintaining realistic stats for NHL players and high tier prospects for each team is relatively simple to do for the development team. FIFA changes player stats weekly to track real life.
from my point of view computer games are a waste of precious time. sometimes one only realises after months of playing, but you always realise it, regardless of whether this game is better or that game is...

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Old
09-26-2012, 01:05 PM
  #66
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Prospects represent hope. People overvalue hope because its potential is to be something better than what you have.

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09-26-2012, 01:25 PM
  #67
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The thing is blue chip prospects really are worth a lot. The problem is more homerism. Everyone thinking their dime a dozen, may become 3rd liner prospects, are worth a lot. Then people packaging those prospects in quantity for quality trades.

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09-26-2012, 03:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
i don't see it to be honest.

probably has more to do with being "hockey's Future" board more than anything else.
This is probably it right here, the rest of this seems like Video Game talk, which we have a board for.

Case closed.

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