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At least one team still respects Dan Cloutier's goalie skills and leadership

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09-26-2012, 06:25 PM
  #1
RonSwanson*
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At least one team still respects Dan Cloutier's goalie skills and leadership

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=642167

Quote:
Dan Cloutier named to Canucks development staff

Vancouver, B.C. – The Vancouver Canucks announced today the addition of Dan Cloutier as Goaltending Consultant, Player Development to the organization’s staff. Cloutier will participate in the Chicago Wolves training camp which opens Friday.

Cloutier joins the Canucks from the Barrie Colts, where he most recently served as goaltending consultant during the 2010-11 season. The Mont-Laurier, Quebec native was a member of the Vancouver Canucks, New York Rangers, Tampa Bay Lightning and Los Angeles Kings over the span of a 10-year playing career in the National Hockey League. Cloutier posted a record of 139-142-33, 15 shutouts and a 2.77 goals against average.

In his five seasons with the Canucks, Cloutier appeared in 208 games with a record of 109-68-23, 14 shutouts and a 2.42 goals against average. He ranks third in franchise history for best goals against average (2.42), third for shutouts (14), fourth for wins (109) and fourth for games played (208). Cloutier also appeared in 25 playoff games, posting a record of 10-13 and a 3.31 goals against average. He concluded his playing career in 2009-10 with the Rockford Icehogs of the AHL.

On the international stage, Cloutier won a gold medal at the 1995 World Junior Championship.

Cloutier was originally drafted 26th overall by the New York Rangers in the 1994 NHL Entry Draft.

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09-26-2012, 06:50 PM
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123slam
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Hahahaha, what skills?

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09-26-2012, 07:01 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
Hahahaha, what skills?
These ones.
[MOD EDIT: NSFW Language in video sorry guys]

He can teach goalies what not to do.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-26-2012 at 09:59 PM. Reason: Not Safe For Work Language in video
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09-26-2012, 07:06 PM
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Jason Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
These ones.
[MOD EDIT: NSFW Language in video sorry]

He can teach goalies what not to do.
This is an absolutely horrible video.


You realize that most of these goals were like...completely ridiculous situations? 5-on-3s 5-on-4s...terrible Kings defense, allowing teams to pass through the slot, walk into the slot, breakways, wide open back side forwards..

Come on if you are going to make a video about how bad a goalie is, or make a comment that he is bad, don't support it with a video that 90% of the goals in it are not is fault and probably wouldn't be stopped by 75% of the goalies out their on their best days.....

Cloutier was BAD. But this video is just stupid.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-26-2012 at 09:58 PM. Reason: edited quoted post
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09-26-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
This is an absolutely horrible video.


You realize that most of these goals were like...completely ridiculous situations? 5-on-3s 5-on-4s...terrible Kings defense, allowing teams to pass through the slot, walk into the slot, breakways, wide open back side forwards..

Come on if you are going to make a video about how bad a goalie is, or make a comment that he is bad, don't support it with a video that 90% of the goals in it are not is fault and probably wouldn't be stopped by 75% of the goalies out their on their best days.....

Cloutier was BAD. But this video is just stupid.
I won't dispute that there are some bad examples in that video, but that's the only footage you'll find of Cloutier in a Kings uniform, which just about summarizes what we were used to seeing during that time. Lots of goals being given up and lots of losses.

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09-26-2012, 08:03 PM
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Pucknut50
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Why are we even bringing this up? Cloutier was a good goalie for Vancouver though even in Vancouver he had a reputation of letting in soft goals. With the Kings it was just bad situation and he was a train wreck.

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09-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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Watching that video brought back all the shame and frustration I felt as a Kings fan all those years, it honestly made me cringe, makes me appreciate once again the Cup run, gosh that sucked.

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09-26-2012, 09:20 PM
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Those who can, do, those who can't, teach.

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09-26-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
These ones.
[MOD EDIT: NSFW Language in video sorry]

He can teach goalies what not to do.
Wow those were some of the most horrific years in Kings history! Yikes! By the way not sure if anyone noticed or is it just me, but the #4 guy someone named Blake sure was in a lot of those clips.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-26-2012 at 09:59 PM. Reason: edited quoted post
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09-26-2012, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Those who can, do, those who can't, teach.

I've had about a dozen professors in my time that shatter the above phrase......


.....it's just possible that some can do ......neither!


Last edited by Basilisk: 09-26-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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09-26-2012, 09:40 PM
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Just when you think you can't possibly dislike a team anymore....

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09-26-2012, 09:59 PM
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On road trips I hope they make their training staff stay at a Super 8.

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09-26-2012, 11:48 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
Wow those were some of the most horrific years in Kings history! Yikes! By the way not sure if anyone noticed or is it just me, but the #4 guy someone named Blake sure was in a lot of those clips.
That was one of the things that stood out like a sore thumb. As well as so many other former Kings who are long gone (like Mike Weaver and Kevin Dallman).

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09-26-2012, 11:53 PM
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lets hope he becomes their goalie coach.

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09-27-2012, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Why are we even bringing this up?
For the laughs, and because this is turning into a long offseason.

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09-27-2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
lets hope he becomes their goalie coach.
Why not...he should be a major improvement over what they already have...


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09-27-2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
lets hope he becomes their goalie coach.
No lie, if this happens it's going to bring a pretty good amount of glee to my life. Cloutier coaching Luongo...
Dan "goals from the red line during the playoffs" Cloutier. Coaching. Roberto "I don't always play like crap, but when I do, it's in the playoffs" Luongo.

Yeah the Nucks are really going to win a Cup with those two...

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09-27-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
That was one of the things that stood out like a sore thumb. As well as so many other former Kings who are long gone (like Mike Weaver and Kevin Dallman).
I actually liked Weaver. Dallman really shouldn't have been in the NHL though.

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09-27-2012, 09:46 AM
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I actually liked Weaver. Dallman really shouldn't have been in the NHL though.
Weaver really has carved out a niche as a solid 6th-7th d-man in the NHL. He was that with the Kings too, main problem was way too many offensive d-men on those teams with Sopel, Blake, Dallman... Ugh.

Thing is there is really no excuse since that's the same type of players Crawford used to run the same system with in Vancouver and had success with...

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09-27-2012, 10:51 AM
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I always liked Sopel and thought he was a decent #2 offensive guy. He had a huge shot from the point...could throw the body also.

I'll never forget this one. "He was just standing at the bus stop and along came the bus."




And in terms of the whole Cloutier debate..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Why are we even bringing this up? Cloutier was a good goalie for Vancouver though even in Vancouver he had a reputation of letting in soft goals. With the Kings it was just bad situation and he was a train wreck.
Exactly.

I hate hate hate the scapegoating people plant on Cloutier and to some extent Labarbara. Now I am in no way shape or form saying these guys were good goalies here. But let's be real, the teams in front of them were two of the worst stretches of years in Kings history. That's not fair at all to make them the headlining villain of those times, which people do quite frequently. Dan Cloutier is public enemy number one to so many Kings fans from the Crawford era...but I mean, an educated fan should look at the situation that Mike Smith was in in Tampa and realize...okay a bad team with a bad system makes a goalie look...really really bad. I mean, on top of how bad that team was, Cloutier played hurt almost the whole season. I don't want to bash on how we treated the guy, but this article doesn't make our organization look very good:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...2-7bf0337f2c6e

I mean, I don't hear a lot of people on here hating on Mathieu Garon quite like people hate on Cloutier, and the funny thing is, Garon had nearly the same exact numbers as Cloutier AND he had a better team in front of him. However, Garon slowly slips by the hate-o-tron. It's just ignorance to me. It's like blaming the refs for a loss. It's the easy thing to do, so people do it, and do it too often I might add.

Again, don't get me wrong here, I am not a Cloutier lover, which when I made these same arguments over at LGK almost two years ago I was labeled as. I think the guy was an injured goalie, with a bad midset, put into a bad situation. It's just always been a sore spot to me that people toss out conventional logic when referencing Dan Cloutier, and act as if he was a thorn in our side for a decade. Like he was our Rick DiPietro, or something. He played 33 games over two seasons on a busted hip when the Kings top 6 defense was the following:

Blake/Lubo
Aaron Miller/Modry
Dallman/Weaver

Jamie Hewerd


I mean.....what goalie is going to be successful with that group of players...with "Open the barn door" style, no defensive responsibility, Marc Crawford. I mean he wasn't even at all significant. 24 games was the most he played in a single season. That's nothing. That's utterly nothing. But again, people want to act as if the 06-07 season is all his fault. Truth is we had terrible management prior to this in terms of depth at goaltending or defense. Lombardi made the mistake of having no backup plan, and there was no foresight. There was a hope and a prayer by Lombardi that somehow Cloutier would be healthy mentally and physically, which was a total reach, and a very poorly executed risk to take. Dan Cloutier is probably the last person I would blame in terms of that era. That team in front of him was garbage, we were coming out of an era of management that voided us of depth and quality, and we made an incredibly poor decision putting an injured goalie out there and expecting him to do something. Cloutier did not help himself, but nobody else helped him either. Yet, the blame of the 06-07 season almost always seems to fall directly on his shoulders. Point I am trying to make is, there is a lot more to be mad at from that time other than Dan Cloutier.

Just my two cents....okay...ten cents.


Last edited by Jason Lewis: 09-27-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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09-27-2012, 01:22 PM
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Hey Jay,

I agree with you on Labs, I never really cared for him either, but I also don't hold him accountable really either. I mean the guy is really a backup goalie that we tried as a starter and it failed. That's fine, not everyone is cut out to face the top teams in the NHL. Frankly, it wouldn't even bother me all that much if we brought him back in strictly a backup role (assuming Bernier is dealt). I think he's the type that can hold his own against weaker opponents, but don't count on him to carry you for a stretch or come up with a huge game. That's not him.

Cloutier though, sorry, I don't share your sentiments. I agree he was hurt, and that's an unfair burden, but he also wasn't so hurt that he couldn't play. Doctors don't clear guys to play unless they can play, and it's not like Cloutier has sued us over being unfairly cleared for action or something. He may not have been 100% but he was likely 90 to 95% and he should have posted better numbers than he did.

Btw, Garon's numbers were much better than Cloutier's as a King.

Cloutier: 33 games, 8-18-3, 0 SO, 3.83 GAA, .868 Sav. %
Garon: 95 games, 44-36-9, 6 SO, 3.03 GAA, .898 Sav. %

Also, keep in mind that 24 of Cloutier's 33 games were in 2006-2007, and both Garon and Cloutier played on that team, so they both shared that horrendous defense you posted. That year, Cloutier's GAA was 3.83 and sav. % was .860, while Garon was 2.66 and .907.

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09-27-2012, 01:28 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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I'd like to see Jay defend Roman Cechmanek in his next misguided tirade.

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09-27-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I mean, I don't hear a lot of people on here hating on Mathieu Garon quite like people hate on Cloutier, and the funny thing is, Garon had nearly the same exact numbers as Cloutier AND he had a better team in front of him.
Did you seriously just imply that these numbers:
Garon; 32 GP 2.66 GAA 0.907 S%
Cloutier; 24 GP 3.98 GAA 0.86 S%
Are "nearly the exact same"? Those are taken from the 2006 season and both guys had the same team in front of them. That may have a little bit to do with Garon getting a pass...

Quote:
Blake/Lubo
Aaron Miller/Modry
Dallman/Weaver

Jamie Hewerd
You're forgetting either Norstrom, and Sopel. Modry and Heward played 19 games that year... And that's not nearly as a bad of a d-core as you're making it out to be. Crawford just horribly misused everyone on that team.

Quote:
I mean.....what goalie is going to be successful with that group of players...with "Open the barn door" style, no defensive responsibility, Marc Crawford. I mean he wasn't even at all significant. 24 games was the most he played in a single season. That's nothing. That's utterly nothing. But again, people want to act as if the 06-07 season is all his fault. Truth is we had terrible management prior to this in terms of depth at goaltending or defense. Lombardi made the mistake of having no backup plan, and there was no foresight. There was a hope and a prayer by Lombardi that somehow Cloutier would be healthy mentally and physically, which was a total reach, and a very poorly executed risk to take. Dan Cloutier is probably the last person I would blame in terms of that era. That team in front of him was garbage, we were coming out of an era of management that voided us of depth and quality, and we made an incredibly poor decision putting an injured goalie out there and expecting him to do something. Cloutier did not help himself, but nobody else helped him either. Yet, the blame of the 06-07 season almost always seems to fall directly on his shoulders. Point I am trying to make is, there is a lot more to be mad at from that time other than Dan Cloutier.
Very true. The awfulness of that team had more to do with Crawford and his style of play than it did Cloutier's play. The injuries and mask change really did more to hurt his play than anything else. Thing with that arguement is though Cloutier knew Crawford, knew Crawford's system and had done well in it in the past. So a lot of the blame for his poor play does indeed fall directly on his shoulders and that's why I'm as hard as I am on him. He really came into a bad situation and just crapped the bed he was given. He did interviews like the one you linked to and complained about not being given a fair shake, and when he was given a chance he did nothing with it and only made things worse for himself.

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09-27-2012, 02:18 PM
  #24
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Hey Jay,

That article citing the mistreatment of Cloutier was rebutted by the organization. I am on my phone, so it's a pain to look up, but that was addressed by the Kings. For example they did have a first class seat, but Cloutier wanted to go at a different time when no first class was available. I don't remember the rest, but the Kings had an answer to his claims.

He's a chump. And Labarbera sucked.

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09-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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