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LD Morgan Rielly - Moose Jaw Warriors, WHL (2012 Draft)

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Old
09-25-2012, 12:46 PM
  #251
Four1 Lead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Im wondering what is higher then blue chip then.
1. Generational
2. Elite
3. Blue chip

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09-25-2012, 12:49 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
1. Generational
2. Elite
3. Blue chip
Never heard of anything higher than blue-chip. I would only consider there to be ~15 blue-chippers in the league.

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09-25-2012, 12:51 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Never heard of anything higher than blue-chip. I would only consider there to be ~15 blue-chippers in the league.
You've never heard of "Generational" talent?

Sidney Crosby...

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Old
09-25-2012, 12:56 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
You've never heard of "Generational" talent?

Sidney Crosby...
Generational talent yes, before he was a generational talent he was a blue-chip prospect.

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09-25-2012, 12:59 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Generational talent yes, before he was a generational talent he was a blue-chip prospect.
No.

Sidney Crosby was a generational talent from a young age.

That's why they had features of him on HNIC, when he was 13.

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09-25-2012, 01:03 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
No.

Sidney Crosby was a generational talent from a young age.

That's why they had features of him on HNIC, when he was 13.
HNIC has had features on many people, Kuznetsov had features on him when he was 11. That doesn't make you a generational talent.

That sometimes makes you a blue-chip prosect. You become a generational talent when you succeed to a very high degree in the NHL.

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09-25-2012, 01:04 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
HNIC has had features on many people, Kuznetsov had features on him when he was 11. That doesn't make you a generational talent.

That sometimes makes you a blue-chip prosect. You become a generational talent when you succeed to a very high degree in the NHL.
LOL. Okay there.

Have a good day.

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09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
LOL. Okay there.

Have a good day.
Would you be calling Crosby a Generational talent if he had a career high of 60 points?

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Old
09-25-2012, 02:20 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Yes.

Either Morgan Rielly or Jake Gardiner will be the #1 defenceman for Toronto.
Bineg a #1 defenceman, and playing as the teams #1 defenceman are two very different things...

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09-25-2012, 02:28 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Bineg a #1 defenceman, and playing as the teams #1 defenceman are two very different things...
Technically being a top 30 defenseman in the league will make you a #1 guy. Both have the potential to be so. Rielly is more likely to reach that level than Gardiner, though.

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Old
09-25-2012, 04:30 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Reasons why I feel Rielly is a better prospect than 18 year old Nazem Kadri...

1. Skating (Rielly is a better skater than most hockey players.)

2. Rielly is about 6'0 and 200 pounds at 18 years old. Kadri is 21 and has yet to hit 200 pounds. The difference in physical maturation is undeniable.

3. Nazem Kadri has tremendous offensive skill but a case can be made that Rielly is equally as skilled but as a defenceman.

4. Rielly has very few question marks in his game. Kadri had a couple.

5. He missed his entire draft year to an injury and still managed to go 5th overall. Much like Galchenyuk, this says a lot about how their talent level is viewed by scouts and those who have watched them develop over the years.
1 and 2 are only really your only points that differentiates them. Rielly's offensive skill at this point is really only thought to be at a certain level. Being injured is a huge issue for that.

Secondly, Kadri suffered an injury that season and still went 7th. Yeah draft pedigree is a nice thing but it's hardly an argument for why a prospect is better than another prospect taken in another draft. Draft's are inherently different. One could be deeper than the other, have more forward talent or defensive talent, or teams could do different things. It's not a good argument for why a player is better than another. Is Rielly an equal prospect to Schenn at 18?

So skating and size. Meh, I guess I could see an argument but it's not exactly strong. Both are blue chippers. Both are incredible offensive players. One just happens to be older than the other and taking a licking since he hasn't made the NHL yet by some arbitrarily chosen date by the masses.

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Old
09-26-2012, 12:05 AM
  #262
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Kadri's a good prospect, Rielly's a great prospect.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:49 AM
  #263
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Burke was in Moose Jaw the other day, thinks Morgan is very close to being NHL ready.

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09-26-2012, 12:47 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Burke was in Moose Jaw the other day, thinks Morgan is very close to being NHL ready.
Coming from Burke doesn't mean much, no offense to you Leasty.

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09-26-2012, 07:25 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Technically being a top 30 defenseman in the league will make you a #1 guy. Both have the potential to be so. Rielly is more likely to reach that level than Gardiner, though.
Hes more likely to? No, I think he has a higher ceiling but you have no idea if he is going to reach it or not haha. Especially since his only full season in juniors was just meh, and his last season where he did well was cut extremely short

Where as Gardiner probably has a small ceiling but considering he has already made a solid impact at the NHL level he is more likely to reach that level haha.

I swear the hype around Rielly is insane. He has practically done nothing beside be drafted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Burke was in Moose Jaw the other day, thinks Morgan is very close to being NHL ready.
He has played what, two games so far? And 20 in the last two seasons? Burke is on crack if he seriously thinks that.

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Old
09-26-2012, 07:32 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Burke was in Moose Jaw the other day, thinks Morgan is very close to being NHL ready.
He didn't really say it like that though. He says he is certain Rielly will play in the NHL, all he needs is time. He mentioned that he impressed so much in the prospect camp that the coaches thought it was a possibility he could have made the team.


Last edited by Kulemon: 09-26-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
09-26-2012, 07:50 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Hes more likely to? No, I think he has a higher ceiling but you have no idea if he is going to reach it or not haha. Especially since his only full season in juniors was just meh, and his last season where he did well was cut extremely short

Stats wise his rookie season was 'meh' but you can look back to the very beginning of this thread. He was impressing many people including scouts and afterall, it was his rookie season as a defenseman in the WHL. He was terrific in the Ivaan Hlinka tournament and terrific in those 18 regular season games and terrific in the WHL playoffs, coming off a serious injury.


Where as Gardiner probably has a small ceiling but considering he has already made a solid impact at the NHL level he is more likely to reach that level haha.

How does Gardiner have a small ceiling? Lol

I swear the hype around Rielly is insane. He has practically done nothing beside be drafted...

He was a top 5 pick to a Canadian team. Especially the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's going to be hyped. Since being drafted he was spectacular in the prospect camp and terrific in the Canada-Russia challenge where he looked like Canada's best D along with Murray (over a ton of talent). He's also played some pre-season action and a couple games in the WHL this year where he was also great (small sample size I know).

He has played what, two games so far? And 20 in the last two seasons? Burke is on crack if he seriously thinks that.

it's not that outrageous. He's got NHL size (6'0.5" 200lbs) and NHL skill, his defensive game is also underrated. He's a strong kid but not very physical. Galchenyuk and Rielly are very unique players. Although they missed their draft season for the most part, they are gym rats with terrific character and work ethics with a ton of skill to boot. I'm sure if you ask people in the Habs organization or Habs fans, they'll tell you that Gally could have possibly made their team aswell. But, it would in my opinion be stupid to rush them.
He's an excellent prospect.

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Old
09-26-2012, 08:18 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Hes more likely to? No, I think he has a higher ceiling but you have no idea if he is going to reach it or not haha. Especially since his only full season in juniors was just meh, and his last season where he did well was cut extremely short

Where as Gardiner probably has a small ceiling but considering he has already made a solid impact at the NHL level he is more likely to reach that level haha.

I swear the hype around Rielly is insane. He has practically done nothing beside be drafted...




He has played what, two games so far? And 20 in the last two seasons? Burke is on crack if he seriously thinks that.
Perhaps because he was just drafted? Most people are going off what they see in small sample sizes and pedigree/draft position.

It's pretty likely that Rielly see's NHL action in the next 2-3 years. Seeing as his potential is higher than Gardiners, it becomes only natural to assume Rielly > Gardiner.

As for doing just ok in first season, it's pretty evident thats wrong. Morgan recorded 28 pts in 62 games as a rookie, pretty good for a defenceman. Stacked up against Dougie Hamilton for example, who had 16 pts in 64 games.

No, I think he'll be just fine this season. Hoping for PPG or under that. Go Rielly!

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Old
09-26-2012, 09:37 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
He didn't really say it like that though. He says he is certain Rielly will play in the NHL, all he needs is time. He mentioned that he impressed so much in the prospect camp that the coaches thought it was a possibility he could have made the team.
Paraphrased this:

Quote:
Burke said the 18-year-old will definitely have a chance to play in the NHL as early as this year if it weren’t for the lock out as Rielly impressed many coaches during the Leafs prospect camp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
He has played what, two games so far? And 20 in the last two seasons? Burke is on crack if he seriously thinks that.
Will trust whatever Carlyle and co. decide what to do with Rielly. Wouldn't have been surprised if they gave him a 9 game try out (if there isn't a lockout).


Last edited by TheLeastOfTheBunch: 09-26-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old
09-26-2012, 09:50 PM
  #270
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He's an excellent prospect.
I didnt say Gardiner had a small ceiling, I just think Riellys is higher (yet he is still incredibly overrated) but Gardiner has already succeeded at the NHL level

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Old
09-27-2012, 12:00 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
I didnt say Gardiner had a small ceiling, I just think Riellys is higher (yet he is still incredibly overrated) but Gardiner has already succeeded at the NHL level
Rielly is not overrated. He's seen as a future top pairing, point producing defenseman, which is on track with scouts predictions of his potential (ie. pre-draft rankings comparing him to Duncan Keith and Erik Karlsson). I don't think he's done anything since the draft to not justify those comparisons or being the 5th overall pick, especially with his play with Team Canada and Moose Jaw. Just because he's talked about more than Ryan Murray and Griffin Reinhart doesn't mean he's overrated. He was drafted to a team with more fans than both of the other two combined, which gives the perspective that he's overrated when really people would be saying the same things that they are now, there would just be less people saying them.

I agree. Rielly is definitely the one with the higher ceiling. Ideally, in a couple of years Phaneuf and Rielly will be our top pairing and Gardiner will be on the second. We're really going to need a solid #4 to play with Gardiner though. Hopefully Holzer becomes that guy.

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09-27-2012, 12:13 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
No.

Sidney Crosby was a generational talent from a young age.

That's why they had features of him on HNIC, when he was 13.
So it shouldn't be too hard to list all of the generational talents going back a long ways then. Who are they?

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09-27-2012, 02:52 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Would you be calling Crosby a Generational talent if he had a career high of 60 points?
It really has nothing to do with when Hockeysfuture started to follow anyone. He wasn't really labled a "Generational talent" by anyone when he was 14, but it was pretty obvious to a lot of people, that he was going to be the next future hall of famer, by the way he played. Pretty much the next real great hockey player.

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Old
09-27-2012, 04:47 AM
  #274
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I didnt say Gardiner had a small ceiling, I just think Riellys is higher (yet he is still incredibly overrated) but Gardiner has already succeeded at the NHL level
How is Rielly being overrated? most experts touted him as a top pairing dman and if not for his injury, potentially the second overall pick. When was the last time a guy with that much potential not shown some hype?

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09-27-2012, 08:18 AM
  #275
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If we had Wilson as coach i would be highly concerned, but we have Carlyle who values D

So Reilly will not be tossed to the wolves

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