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09-26-2012, 11:01 PM
  #1001
Bleach Clean
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David Booth a "Two-Way Force"? http://canucksarmy.com/2012/4/11/can...wo-way-threats



Like every player he has his warts, but I don't think _some_ people properly appreciate his value either.



Quote from Cam Charron "The Canucks knew exactly what they were getting in Booth, and he has performed as well in Vancouver as he has throughout his career. There may be some space to move upwards offensively given his visible talent versus his results, but I have no bones to pick with his defensive game."

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09-26-2012, 11:08 PM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
We will continue to disagree on Booth. Quite ridiculous to refer to him as a shade above waiver territory as well. There are contracts around the league that compare well to his. I'm guessing they should be viewed as poor also? (Wasn't there a list posted about this during the season in order to justify Booth's contract?) I don't think you are in touch with the type of money similar level players are getting around the league.
Booth returned very very little one year ago. If you think he showed enough last season to significantly raise his stock, so be it. I didn't see what you saw. Were other GM's also out of touch with what similar level players are getting around the league and that played into the fact he returned next to nothing of value?

Where do you rank Booth as far as Canuck wingers go? Do you think he's a more valuable two-way forward than Higgins and Hansen?

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09-26-2012, 11:22 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Florida essentially got no value for Booth when they traded him. I would peg his value as very low, not far from waiver territorry...

If you can lock up Perry for anything up to $7mil you do it IMO. The Canucks could move bad money off the books if they need cap space and Perry is an ideal fit on the 1st or 2nd line RW longterm.
Agreed, Perry would instantly be our most dynamic forward.

A forward that can score, pass, and more importantly have the size to produce in traffic and in front of the net.

His offensive ability would allow the canucks to basically have two strong lines, with the twins on one line, and kesler/perry on the other.

He's a player you pay a premium for, and considering how much we are paying ballard/malhotra, Its a no brainer you make room for a player like that.

The question is not should we target Perry, it's if hes willing to come here.

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09-26-2012, 11:30 PM
  #1004
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Booth is a one-trick pony. a speedster that crashes the net.

average hockey sense, almost no playmaking ability, and not a strong defensive player.

Hes your typical 2nd line tweener. I don't think hes a top 6 forward on a contender.

On a weak team, yeah hes a top 6 forward.

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09-26-2012, 11:32 PM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Booth is a one-trick pony. a speedster that crashes the net.

average hockey sense, almost no playmaking ability, and not a strong defensive player.

Hes your typical 2nd line tweener. I don't think hes a top 6 forward on a contender.

On a weak team, yeah hes a top 6 forward.
If we were our worst top-6 forward, I wouldn't be unhappy. Especially with Jensen and Kassian possibly taking over for him soon.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:32 PM
  #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Booth returned very very little one year ago. If you think he showed enough last season to significantly raise his stock, so be it. I didn't see what you saw. Were other GM's also out of touch with what similar level players are getting around the league and that played into the fact he returned next to nothing of value?

Where do you rank Booth as far as Canuck wingers go? Do you think he's a more valuable two-way forward than Higgins and Hansen?


I could care less what Booth returned. It has no bearing on _my_ evaluation of his on-ice play. As to the GMs, who can say? Tallon signed Campbell for 7m plus, Huet for 5m+, and forgot to file qualifying papers for his RFAs on time... GMs can do stupid things. I feel that Booth was had for a song, and that feeling hasn't changed.



As to where I rank him among the wingers: I rank him 3rd overall here. Above both Higgins and Hansen. For confirmation, I recommend going to the Booth vs. Higgins poll on the Polls board, where I voted Booth over Higgins. (Note: Burrows and Higgins are my two favourite players on the team btw)



My primary reason for voting that way is Booth's G/60 rating. He scores at a very strong rate. It places his scoring with some pretty elite company like Rick Nash, Brad Richards, Jeff Carter and Anze Kopitar. (Reference link here: http://canucksarmy.com/2012/5/17/david-booth). Simply put, while Higgins and Hansen may be more rounded talents, Booths scoring ability is something they can't match. He maintains this while having his percentage dip below 10% sometimes as well. So you know he's _not_ a sniper relying solely on the quality of his shot.



The Canucks absolutely did their homework when going after Booth. These are traits your average GM won't weight properly. As such, it was/is a great way to find deals on undervalued talent.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:38 PM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If we were our worst top-6 forward, I wouldn't be unhappy. Especially with Jensen and Kassian possibly taking over for him soon.
I would. Every year we talk about adding that top 6 forward to play with kesler. To form that secondary scoring.

At the end of the day, instead of having kesler go lone ranger and try to go through the other team by himself, we have another one, just a worst version.

That raymond-kesler-booth line was painful to watch. No wonder some here wanted 40 year old whitney to help distribute the puck.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:41 PM
  #1008
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I would. Every year we talk about adding that top 6 forward to play with kesler. To form that secondary scoring.

At the end of the day, instead of having kesler go lone ranger and try to go through the other team by himself, we have another one, just a worst version.

That raymond-kesler-booth line was painful to watch. No wonder some here wanted 40 year old whitney to help distribute the puck.
Well, with all three recently coming off of injuries, it's hardly surprising. That said, I would want Gillis to be a major player in the Perry sweepstakes.

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09-26-2012, 11:41 PM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Agreed, Perry would instantly be our most dynamic forward.

A forward that can score, pass, and more importantly have the size to produce in traffic and in front of the net.

His offensive ability would allow the canucks to basically have two strong lines, with the twins on one line, and kesler/perry on the other.

He's a player you pay a premium for, and considering how much we are paying ballard/malhotra, Its a no brainer you make room for a player like that.

The question is not should we target Perry, it's if hes willing to come here.


You forgot to add: Is he willing to re-sign? That's the the primary question. If he's not willing to do that with ANA, the team that drafted him, the team that he won the cup with, why is he choosing to do it here?



Oh, and is he willing to buy into the "cap-covenant" when doing so? If Gillis goes over the Sedin cap, is he still willing to take less overall to make the team stronger as a whole? Is he willing to buy in? If so, why is he going to do that instead of ANA?



These are the questions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Booth is a one-trick pony. a speedster that crashes the net.

average hockey sense, almost no playmaking ability, and not a strong defensive player.

Hes your typical 2nd line tweener. I don't think hes a top 6 forward on a contender.

On a weak team, yeah hes a top 6 forward.



Wrong about the defensive play. I'd say he's definitely underrated in that regard.



What 2nd line tweeners have a G/60 that rival some of the best 1st line forwards in the game? Give me that type of tweener any day, contender or not.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:42 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
My primary reason for voting that way is Booth's G/60 rating. He scores at a very strong rate.
But goalscoring is the only area of Booth's game that is above average.

What do his assist/60 numbers look like?

Agree to disagree on where Booth ranks in Vancouver. From what I saw last season Booth was the Canucks 5th best winger.

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09-26-2012, 11:44 PM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I would. Every year we talk about adding that top 6 forward to play with kesler. To form that secondary scoring.

At the end of the day, instead of having kesler go lone ranger and try to go through the other team by himself, we have another one, just a worst version.

That raymond-kesler-booth line was painful to watch. No wonder some here wanted 40 year old whitney to help distribute the puck.


There was no "lone ranger" thing going on, Booth and Kesler had chemistry. Actually, I was quite fond of the AMEX line. But regardless, here's an article detailing how Booth and Kesler worked together. Give it a read:


http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04...ave-chemistry/

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:48 PM
  #1012
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Well, with all three recently coming off of injuries, it's hardly surprising. That said, I would want Gillis to be a major player in the Perry sweepstakes.
Like you said, theres hope, kassian and jensen are in the pipeline.

Kassian has the potential to be a rare player in this league, although I was disappointed with what he showed last yr.

Jensen looks like a natural goal scorer and has some size.

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09-26-2012, 11:56 PM
  #1013
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You forgot to add: Is he willing to re-sign? That's the the primary question. If he's not willing to do that with ANA, the team that drafted him, the team that he won the cup with, why is he choosing to do it here?



Oh, and is he willing to buy into the "cap-covenant" when doing so? If Gillis goes over the Sedin cap, is he still willing to take less overall to make the team stronger as a whole? Is he willing to buy in? If so, why is he going to do that instead of ANA?



These are the questions.
If perry wants to play with a contender, why not the Canucks? Our only hole right now is top-6 RW. He would be the piece that puts us over the top. Remember how Doan was bowled over with our pitch? It was only his devotion to Phoenix that stopped him signing with us. I think that if we acquire him at the deadline not only would we be the favourites for the cup this year, but we could probably do a good job of convincing him to stay with a contender.

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Old
09-27-2012, 12:08 AM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
But goalscoring is the only area of Booth's game that is above average.

What do his assist/60 numbers look like?

Agree to disagree on where Booth ranks in Vancouver. From what I saw last season Booth was the Canucks 5th best winger.


Fine by me, agree to disagree. I still put him 3rd.



His assist/60 don't look great. Definitely not as good as his G/60. But then, he's very much like his linemates in this regard. Kesler usually follows a 1:1 ratio. As does Higgins. Still, those guys have finished seasons with more assists than goals, while Booth never has (NHL). So I see why people use it against him.



"above average"... sure. If you want to call Rick Nash's G/60 rate above average then I guess Booth would qualify as the same? Also, we see from that two-way play argument that this also a facet where Booth ranks very high among the team. Quote from Cam Charron on this "Booth is fourth on the Canucks in not allowing shots against, and is the best among forwards who don't start a record amounts of shifts in the offensive zone."








Some other interesting facts:


- Booth had a better Corsi Rel than Corey Perry and Patrick Sharp at 16.2 to 15.9 and 15.0 respectively (he beat Justin Williams also). So the teams Corsi rating went up more when Booth was on the ice vs when Perry and Sharp were on.


- However, this is balanced by the fact that CorsiRelQOC favours Perry at .905 to Booth's .407. But Patrick Sharp still finished behind at .148 (As did Alfredsson, Pacioretty and Cole).

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09-27-2012, 12:14 AM
  #1015
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A top 6 forward by technical defn, is someone who contributes 40+ points per yr (35+ points for a very low end top 6er). Booth had 30 pts last yr, making him a 3rd liner last yr. If he played a full 82, he'd likely be in the top 6 forward category. (Note: Higgins was a few pts away from being considered a 1st line player. He's def not a tweener).
Good read: http://canucksarmy.com/2011/7/17/point-totals

I'm not a fan of Booth, but he's a good stop gap till Kassian/Jensen are top 6 ready. If the Canucks can get a good young centre ++ in a Luongo trade, I'm comfortable with the top 6.

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09-27-2012, 12:15 AM
  #1016
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