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First Round Bust: Top 20 Wild Prospects

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Old
09-22-2012, 03:06 PM
  #101
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I still view Scandella, Spurgeon, and Falk in the "prospect/young player" group which is why I'm not worried. If Granlund, Coyle, and Bulmer make the Wild next season, I'm not going all of a sudden freak out because of our "lack of forward prospect" depth.

To put another way, if Scandella, Spurgeon, and Falk were still in Houston, because we had some middling UFA NHL Dmen, we would be praised how awesome our farm of blueliners is.
Scandella has yet to prove anything in the NHL. He's done okay but I really see him turning out to be a Schultz like player (though for someone like you, you might think that's okay). Falk has never been seen as anything more than a depth defenseman at best. Spurgeron was put in place where he shouldn't have been.

As for top 4?

The only two in the AHL/Minors that are considered top 4 are; Brodin and Dumba.

Lorenz might not even make the dance. Cuma is often injured. Gunnarsson is a complete unknown. Seeler and Draeger are more than 4-6 years out at best.

If Scandella doesn't develop, that's a major problem.

If a guy like Bulmer doesn't make it or doesn't develop right, we still have Larsson and Zucker.

If a guy like Scandella doesn't develop right, who do we have that we can put in place right away?

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09-22-2012, 03:32 PM
  #102
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But who do we need right away? We have Suter and Gilbert now. We have Brodin now or at least very very soon. We have Spurgeon (who is a #4 guy). We have Scandella (who should be at least a second pairing guy). Falk is a 6/7 guy. Maybe Brodin and Scandella aren't really ready to be legitimate top 4 guys this season, but they should be by next season.

As I had commented before, if we had better NHL defensive depth, no one would say a peep about our "weak" prospect pool on the defensive end. Honestly, how many teams can you actually say you'd swap defensive prospects with?

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09-22-2012, 04:11 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
The only knock on our prospect pool seems to be "lack of depth" after our high-end prospects.

huh?

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09-22-2012, 04:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Scandella has yet to prove anything in the NHL. He's done okay but I really see him turning out to be a Schultz like player (though for someone like you, you might think that's okay). Falk has never been seen as anything more than a depth defenseman at best. Spurgeron was put in place where he shouldn't have been.

As for top 4?

The only two in the AHL/Minors that are considered top 4 are; Brodin and Dumba.

Lorenz might not even make the dance. Cuma is often injured. Gunnarsson is a complete unknown. Seeler and Draeger are more than 4-6 years out at best.

If Scandella doesn't develop, that's a major problem.

If a guy like Bulmer doesn't make it or doesn't develop right, we still have Larsson and Zucker.

If a guy like Scandella doesn't develop right, who do we have that we can put in place right away?

With Scandella, its a matter of how much more upside can he tap. Even if he stops developing, he is still a serviceable NHL defenseman. So its not like he has to be immediately removed from the roster if that happens.

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09-22-2012, 04:21 PM
  #105
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huh?
Our prospect pool's only weakness is lack of depth defensively, I should say.

(this is all before we added Dumba, but still)

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...10/#more-72103

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2. Minnesota Wild

Strengths: The Wild prospect pool is stacked with top-end talent, most notably at forward. Mikael Granlund is one of the top prospects in the world and is set to make his pro debut next season. Charlie Coyle and Zack Phillips are also potential top-six forwards, while Jason Zucker, Johan Larsson, and Brett Bulmer should all be top-nine contributors. Left-wingers Eric Haula and Mario Lucia also have long-term upside. 2011 First round draft pick Jonas Brodin is a blue-chip defense prospect while Matt Hackett headlines a talented quartet of goaltenders.

Weaknesses: There isn't much to not like about the Wild system, though there is steep drop off in talent after Brodin amongst Wild defense prospects. Former first round pick Tyler Cuma can't stay healthy and aside from Chay Genoway, the other defenseman in the organization project mostly as third-pairing or depth type defenseman.

Top 5 Prospects: 1. Mikael Granlund, C, 2. Charlie Coyle, RW. 3. Jonas Brodin, D, 4. Matt Hackett, G, 5. Zack Phillips, C.
Lost to Graduation: Justin Falk, Marco Scandella, Nick Palmieri, Jared Spurgeon.
Lost to Trade: Casey Wellman.
Added: Steven Kampfer.

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09-22-2012, 05:12 PM
  #106
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We're not nearly as desperate to have Scandella become a stud defensemen as we were before the last tradeline. Since then we have added Gilbert, Suter, and Dumba. If we need to add a dman we also have the necessary trade chips to do so.

That being said i think the changes this offseason give him a much better chance to succeed. Reduced competition plus some more time in the A (most likely) will help boost his confidence and allow him to settle into his role.


Last edited by Casper: 09-22-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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09-22-2012, 11:13 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Our prospect pool's only weakness is lack of depth defensively, I should say.

(this is all before we added Dumba, but still)

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...10/#more-72103

I know we're posting on HF Boards, but...

















...the HF articles are not to be taken seriously.

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09-23-2012, 08:44 AM
  #108
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The age Of the player, not whether he's labeled a prospect, rookie or young player, is what maters. When you look at Dmen under 25, we are in great shape.

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09-24-2012, 08:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
But who do we need right away?
I'm projecting the next few years; not just right now. If Dumba and Brodin both make it within the next two years, we have a noticeable gap (unless we go defense again, which there is a strong possibility we might not) between those two and the rest of the guys. I'm not huge on Scandella and Spurgeron already has concussion problems.

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We have Suter and Gilbert now.
Gilbert is one year left on his contract? and while we would want him to come back, do we really need another Zidlicky situation? Not saying his attitude but big contract for a guy that doesn't really produce?

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We have Spurgeon (who is a #4 guy).
I don't see Spurgeron maintaining that high level of play for his career. He could be a good depth guy.

Quote:
As I had commented before, if we had better NHL defensive depth, no one would say a peep about our "weak" prospect pool on the defensive end. Honestly, how many teams can you actually say you'd swap defensive prospects with?
Los Angeles, Toronto, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Anaheim...those are off the top of my head.

The problem is the gaps. We saw it this year. We'll see it coming up.

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The age Of the player, not whether he's labeled a prospect, rookie or young player, is what maters. When you look at Dmen under 25, we are in great shape.
We're not in 'great' shape. I'm still wary of Scandella and Spurgeron. Brodin and Dumba are rock solid. But outside of that? If Scandella goes down for a long stretch? If Gilbert and Suter go down?

Thrower would have made more sense for this team. It wouldn't have hurt to add more balance to the team. Brodin + Dumba -> Huge drop off on ready made defensemen. Granlund + Coyle -> Not as huge drop off for ready made forwards.

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09-24-2012, 08:50 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Gilbert is one year left on his contract? and while we would want him to come back, do we really need another Zidlicky situation? Not saying his attitude but big contract for a guy that doesn't really produce?
Gilbert has 2 years left on his contract?



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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I don't see Spurgeron maintaining that high level of play for his career. He could be a good depth guy.
Because defensemen peak before they're 23 amirite?



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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Los Angeles, Toronto, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Anaheim...those are off the top of my head.
You might want to check your sources for those then. Toronto certainly has a great defensive prospect pool. Anaheim's is probably better than ours. LA has Voynov (if you count him) and...Forbort I guess? Muzzin might qualify if you like Falk. One of St. Louis's best defensive prospects is comparable to Seeler. They seem to have a little depth, but they have no one of note in their system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
The problem is the gaps. We saw it this year. We'll see it coming up.
In other words, there's no tangible things you can find an issue with in the pool so you're relying upon some flashy (but really meaningless) descriptor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
We're not in 'great' shape. I'm still wary of Scandella and Spurgeron. Brodin and Dumba are rock solid. But outside of that? If Scandella goes down for a long stretch? If Gilbert and Suter go down?
If Doughty and Scuderi go down? If Karlsson and Gonchar go down? If Keith and Seabrook go down? If Schultz and Whitney go down? If Martin and Letang go down? If Weber and Gill go down? If Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk go down? That's a ridiculous, failed attempt to prove anything. Maybe Toronto has the mythical NHL ready pool to replace that sort of long term, major injury. However, there is no other team in the league that's not majorly hurt by that kind of situation.

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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Thrower would have made more sense for this team. It wouldn't have hurt to add more balance to the team. Brodin + Dumba -> Huge drop off on ready made defensemen. Granlund + Coyle -> Not as huge drop off for ready made forwards.
Thrower doesn't address any real hole in our defensive pool. I wouldn't have minded him as a selection. However, he's a late '93, rather than a '94. For an organization that has such an abundance of defensive contracts in that range already, the lack of flexibility really really dampens his value to the club. He's never been seen as the kind of guy with huge upside. We already have a ton of depth/bottom pairing types and he'd struggle for development time because of the whole late '93 in the CHL issue.

As I said earlier, if Bussieres is who the scouting department think he is, there will be no one upset with that pick.

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09-26-2012, 08:03 PM
  #111
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Matt Hackett can only hack it to #6.

/bad pun

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Blog: First Round Bust: A Cast of Thousands celebrating a rather dodgy track record of Minnesota Wild Drafting.

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09-26-2012, 10:04 PM
  #112
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Wow. That was below NHL.com level man. Wow. Too low. 1 higher for me.

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09-27-2012, 03:40 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Gilbert has 2 years left on his contract?
Not counting this year, due to the lockout.


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Because defensemen peak before they're 23 amirite?
Midget defensemen that have only one season under their belt and has had concussion issues. Sounds like another player we know.

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LA has Voynov (if you count him) and...Forbort I guess?
Forbort, Ebert, Hickey, Deslauriers...

Hickey if you qualify Cuma.

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St. Louis's best defensive prospects is comparable to Seeler. They seem to have a little depth, but they have no one of note in their system.
Personally I like Ian Cole's upside. They also have good depth.

Quote:
In other words, there's no tangible things you can find an issue with in the pool so you're relying upon some flashy (but really meaningless) descriptor.
Oh right like last year? Or the year before that? There is a huge gap between Dumba and our next defensive prospect. And if you can't see that, then your blind.

Quote:
If Doughty and Scuderi go down? If Karlsson and Gonchar go down? If Keith and Seabrook go down? If Schultz and Whitney go down? If Martin and Letang go down? If Weber and Gill go down? If Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk go down? That's a ridiculous, failed attempt to prove anything. Maybe Toronto has the mythical NHL ready pool to replace that sort of long term, major injury. However, there is no other team in the league that's not majorly hurt by that kind of situation.
And it isn't the top 2, it's the bottom 4 that's the biggest issue. Spurgeron has concussion issues. Cuma, Stoner and Falk can't seem to stay healthy and we don't know what's going on with Scandella.

All teams can be hurt by a guy going down in the top 2 but it's the next 4 that really hurt and that's where we have gaps.

Quote:
Thrower doesn't address any real hole in our defensive pool. I wouldn't have minded him as a selection. However, he's a late '93, rather than a '94. For an organization that has such an abundance of defensive contracts in that range already, the lack of flexibility really really dampens his value to the club. He's never been seen as the kind of guy with huge upside. We already have a ton of depth/bottom pairing types and he'd struggle for development time because of the whole late '93 in the CHL issue.
Again, there is a noticeable hole. Even bigger if Gunnarsson doesn't develop.

Mathew Dumba and Jonas Brodin don't look like they are going to be sitting in the AHL too long.

Outside of Dumba and Brodin, who is ready in that 2-3 year gap range? 3-4 year gap range? If a guy like Dumba doesn't work out or Scandella? Or if we start getting a rash of injuries on defense again. Who do we call up?

We had that issue this year. And we're going to still have that issue in the future simply because of the huge gaps in development.

I mean we had to call up a depth defenseman in the AHL last year because we didn't have anyone at all.

Thrower would have added a guy in the 2-4 year range that we can stick in the AHL next year and have a guy there in case of injuries, in case of emergency.

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09-27-2012, 04:31 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Forbort, Ebert, Hickey, Deslauriers...

Hickey if you qualify Cuma.
The last overall pick of the 2012 draft means LA has an amazing pool of defensemen. Not even going to bother with the rest of your post.

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09-27-2012, 08:40 AM
  #115
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I don't see a problem here. Next year we have a solid top four, and we have PLENTY of bottom defensemen to fill the remaining roles. We will most likely resign Gilbert, and there is almost 100% chance we make a trade in the next year and a half for someone because we simply have too many prospects to get onto the roster. That trade could address a number of things, including if Gilbert is not resigned.

Suter-X
Brodin-Y
Scandella-Z

X- could be Gilbert or Spurg.
Y-Could be Dumba or Gilbert.
Z-Could be Spurg or ...anyone of our bottom feeders like Faulk or Stoner.

Don't get me wrong, we need to hope Brodin and Dumba grow into these roles fast otherwise there is a concern here, then again that's where a trade could happen. I simply don't see Phillips, Bulmer, Zucker, and Lucia all on this team in 3 years.

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09-27-2012, 08:43 AM
  #116
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And it finally comes out. the8bandarmadillo wanted Thrower over Bussi. That's a totally legit and reason position. Thrower has a lot of promise.

But the fact that we went with Bussi over Thrower does not mean our group of young Dmen is weak or shallow. Top to bottom it is very solid.

And the Scandella hate has got to stop. As a relic of the Risenbough era, too much hope was placed on Scandella's shoulders. Just like Pouliot, Sheppard, Gillies, and Cuma. Our farm and team were so bad, that the few guys with upside became the cornerstone of our franchise before they even played a single NHL game.. With everybody busting but Scandella, all those years were placed on him, which compounded when Burns was trade.

The guy was a rookie. He played like a rookie. He had amazing games where he was a rock. He had game where he was terrible, especially when the rest of the team also collapsed. People are right that Scandella didn't become a pillar for the Wild last season when everything was falling down. That did happen.

But its your fault if you expect Scandella in his rookie season to be Burns 2.0. Hell, it took Burns 3-4 season to figure out the NHL. Scandella is fine and will be a good NHL Dman.

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09-27-2012, 09:37 AM
  #117
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And it isn't the top 2, it's the bottom 4 that's the biggest issue. Spurgeron has concussion issues. Cuma, Stoner and Falk can't see
Uhh... Didn't Spurgeon sustain one concussion after being mercilessly boarded? It's not like he's got a glass groin or tore a muscle tripping over the boards. I wouldn't say one concussion constitutes "issues."

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09-27-2012, 08:31 PM
  #118
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Wasn't Thrower gone by the time the Bussieres pick happened?

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09-27-2012, 09:07 PM
  #119
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Wasn't Thrower gone by the time the Bussieres pick happened?
Montreal snagged him 5 picks after Bussieres.

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10-01-2012, 06:06 PM
  #120
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We haven't forgot about this. #5 is Johan Larsson - sorry about the delay. It's been a busy past few days on my end.

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10-01-2012, 06:36 PM
  #121
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We haven't forgot about this. #5 is Johan Larsson - sorry about the delay. It's been a busy past few days on my end.
i have johan as #3, just hate how he's been the forgotten one up until recently, he's done everything to show he belongs in the top 3, he's achieved accolades, he's grown his game he's more proven then coyle or dumba, and there is no telling to his potential

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10-01-2012, 07:07 PM
  #122
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i have johan as #3, just hate how he's been the forgotten one up until recently, he's done everything to show he belongs in the top 3, he's achieved accolades, he's grown his game he's more proven then coyle or dumba, and there is no telling to his potential
Then you'll like the article. It's on that subject.

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10-02-2012, 03:27 AM
  #123
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You know what...

I don't believe, once a player 'graduates' to the pro, that he shouldn't still be considered apart of an organizations youth depth. I really don't. Just because you played 2-3 seasons starting as an 18-year old, still means you are considered the future and core of the team IMO

Names like Fowler, Bogosian, and Ekman-Larsson are talented enough not to be called prospects, but young enough to still be considered the future IMO.

I think, around the age 24-25 is where players start to transition from future and core players, into players that have a good ability to garner attention from free agency and may leave the team.

So in my opinion, the future of the Wild's defense is Scandella, Spurgeon, Brodin, and Dumba, with a solid depth of youngsters in Falk, Cuma, Draeger, Gunnarsson, and Seeler.

We could maybe 1-2 more picks in the later rounds on the 2013 draft to add a defenseman, but I think generally, we're fine.

If we are missing anything, its a goal scorer. We have tons of all-round forwards, some playmakers and a number of energy guys. We're good at goaltending.

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10-03-2012, 01:08 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Scandella has yet to prove anything in the NHL. He's done okay but I really see him turning out to be a Schultz like player (though for someone like you, you might think that's okay). Falk has never been seen as anything more than a depth defenseman at best. Spurgeron was put in place where he shouldn't have been.

Mike Yeo completely disagrees with you. Last season he was playing Scandella 23 minutes a game and in every situation. Even after the send down/callup he was getting that ice time.

Also Yeo has Spurgeon with Suter and Scandy with Gilbert to start the season. While its not set in stone I think you underrate them both and Scandella is 22. Whens the last time you decided exactly what a players career would be at 22? Who knows he may breakout like a lot of people think he will and be a perfect top 4 defenseman...Big, puck mover who can skate and shoot with anyone. On top of that he isn't afraid to mix it up.

I hate all the negativity toward Scandella. He's 22. Lets see what he can do before we write him off as a Nick Schultz. Who I'm sorry but Scandella has more grit and skill than Schultz will ever have.

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10-03-2012, 01:10 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post

The guy was a rookie. He played like a rookie. He had amazing games where he was a rock. He had game where he was terrible, especially when the rest of the team also collapsed. People are right that Scandella didn't become a pillar for the Wild last season when everything was falling down. That did happen.

But its your fault if you expect Scandella in his rookie season to be Burns 2.0. Hell, it took Burns 3-4 season to figure out the NHL. Scandella is fine and will be a good NHL Dman.
Amen

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