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UFC 152: Jones vs Belfort

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Old
09-25-2012, 08:35 AM
  #376
m9
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This.

It was better before.

I liked WEC. They should have just left that alone. Im wondering if the ring/cage was smaller in WEC?

Does anyone know? The WEC cards were usually pretty good. Better than the smaller weight class fights have been in the ufc.

Now I tend to find other things to do when a Bantam Weight fight or something like that comes on. I pretty much know its going to be a fifteen minute fight, and it likely will be a lot of shucking and jiving, and patty cake punches.

Thanks but no thanks.

And Dana is the moron for watering down the sport. Popularity of mma is dwindling. The decreased activity on this board is just one example of that.
Yeah, the WEC cage was smaller.

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09-25-2012, 08:50 AM
  #377
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I'm willing to give 125 a much longer look, everyone geta caught in the monent & paints a picture with a pretty wide brush. You have to put it in perspective, the 2 guys fighting were impossible to finish at 135...

The semifinals had one of the most exciting fights in a while (creepy/mm I) & a viscious KO finish on the other. Dodson is a finisher, de silva is a nice addition, urashanti is am exciting striker & creepy is rarely in a bad fight. This division has a lot of promise.

The problem at 135 is the dancing champ, there are plenty of goid fights with finish (macdonald, bowles, barao, wineland, faber all finish often).

I challenge anyone to watch the Pickett/Jabouin fight Saturday & honestly not enjoy the action. Now that I said that they will both **** the bed.


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09-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #378
Gene Parmesan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
I'm willing to give 125 a much longer look, everyone geta caught in the monent & paints a picture with a pretty wide brush. You have to put it in perspective, the 2 guys fighting were impossible to finish at 135...

The semifinals had one of the most exciting fights in a while (creepy/mm I) & a viscious KO finish on the other. Dodson is a finisher, de silva is a nice addition, urashanti is am exciting striker & creepy is rarely in a bad fight. This division has a lot of promise.

The problem at 135 is the dancing champ, there are plenty of goid fights with finish (macdonald, bowles, barao, wineland, faber all finish often).

I challenge anyone to watch the Pickett/Jabouin fight Saturday & honestly not enjoy the action. Now that I said that they will both **** the bed.
I haven't really followed the Flyweights all that much but ill keep an eye on those guys. I think most of my uninterest lies with 135 because of its river dancing champ. Maybe Barao finds a way to finish him.

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09-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #379
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I don't put 155 in the same class as the other smaller divisions. I really like 155 and IMO it's one of the best divisions in the UFC.
It's just not one of my favs. Well, more I think about it, I do like the division. Dumbass me . I just don't care for Edgar and Guida.

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Old
09-25-2012, 06:22 PM
  #380
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155 is a deep and exciting division but there's no stars there currently. The UFC should be focused on building draws in that division before shoving more small divisions at us.

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09-25-2012, 06:31 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
155 is a deep and exciting division but there's no stars there currently. The UFC should be focused on building draws in that division before shoving more small divisions at us.
I think Nate Diaz could become that star if he wins the LW title on FOX. He's an exciting fighter who always tries to finish fights.

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09-25-2012, 06:46 PM
  #382
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The last few cards, the majority of lighter weight fights have ended with finishes. At 125-145 there have been 20 fights (I think that's correct) over the last 5 cards. 13 have had a finish. Phan-Miller, Gamburyan-Omigawa, Camus-Pague, Faber-Barao, Cariaso-Ferguson, Brimage-Hettes, Johnson-Benavidez were the ones that didn't. Some of those were pretty good fights. A couple really weren't.

The perception of these fights being slap fights is not reality, and preconceived notions are leading people to a conclusion that is not real. These divisions aren't decision fests. I like watching fights that finish and these do, and I like watching fighters who don't gas out after one round. So I have no problem with them.


I'm not going to get into the lightweight part of the discussion because I have no idea why people don't like those fights. It's the deepest division in the UFC.

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09-25-2012, 07:20 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
The perception of these fights being slap fights is not reality, and preconceived notions are leading people to a conclusion that is not real. These divisions aren't decision fests. I like watching fights that finish and these do, and I like watching fighters who don't gas out after one round. So I have no problem with them.
How do you fix public perception of these weight classes? People just aren't interested in watching them.

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09-25-2012, 07:25 PM
  #384
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I don't have an answer really. I just know that the fights are finishing and people don't realize it. And on top of that, they're rarely on PPV main cards which also causes people to not give a damn. It's tough to become a fan of fighters who only get put on prelims. Only hardcore fans really pay attention to what's on them.

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09-25-2012, 08:09 PM
  #385
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BJ Penn or Jose Aldo would make me bleed and/or cry in seconds; they impress me. I respect the 125ers as athletes, but it's the same way I respect 12 year olds playing competitive travel hockey. They couldn't beat me in their contest of choice.

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09-25-2012, 08:09 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
155 is a deep and exciting division but there's no stars there currently. The UFC should be focused on building draws in that division before shoving more small divisions at us.
I agree completely.

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09-25-2012, 10:05 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
BJ Penn or Jose Aldo would make me bleed and/or cry in seconds; they impress me. I respect the 125ers as athletes, but it's the same way I respect 12 year olds playing competitive travel hockey. They couldn't beat me in their contest of choice.
I have a hard time believing you stand a shred of a chance against them.

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09-25-2012, 10:10 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
BJ Penn or Jose Aldo would make me bleed and/or cry in seconds; they impress me. I respect the 125ers as athletes, but it's the same way I respect 12 year olds playing competitive travel hockey. They couldn't beat me in their contest of choice.
If you've seen that Roger Huerta video where it showed the aftermath of him dropping some guy who hit a girl unconscious in the street, you might change your mind. He's a 155 pounder but professional fighters of any size are great athletes. Sorry to break it to you but a guy like Benavidez would probably drop you immediately.

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09-25-2012, 11:01 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
BJ Penn or Jose Aldo would make me bleed and/or cry in seconds; they impress me. I respect the 125ers as athletes, but it's the same way I respect 12 year olds playing competitive travel hockey. They couldn't beat me in their contest of choice.
They would dominate you in every way possible.

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09-25-2012, 11:10 PM
  #390
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Huerta also walks around at like 175 or 180 lbs, which isn't small at all. That's a lot different than someone like Benevidez who walks around at 135-140lbs.

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09-26-2012, 02:39 AM
  #391
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The flyweights don't look impressive, because of the parity in the division. It doesn't help that there is no big star in the division either.

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09-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
BJ Penn or Jose Aldo would make me bleed and/or cry in seconds; they impress me. I respect the 125ers as athletes, but it's the same way I respect 12 year olds playing competitive travel hockey. They couldn't beat me in their contest of choice.
Cmon man....any flyweight would drop you in seconds

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09-27-2012, 01:48 PM
  #393
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I'd love to see stats on %s of finishes per weight class on UFC main cards over the last few years, if that info is available. It definitely feels like there have been more decisions at the lighter weights.

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09-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #394
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The flyweights could probably beat up people that are 160-180, but i have hard time seeing flyweights beating up people who are 200-220, in shape and 6 feet tall. Sure there will be some good fighters, but the overall talent gap is lacking.

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09-27-2012, 05:15 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
I'd love to see stats on %s of finishes per weight class on UFC main cards over the last few years, if that info is available. It definitely feels like there have been more decisions at the lighter weights.
Quote:
Even if you include the guys who “always finish” (heavyweights) and the group who “never finish” (flyweights), the different between the two groups isn’t as great as you might have anticipated.

First, the finishing percentage numbers to date in the UFC’s eight divisions:

Heavyweight – 84.2%
Light Heavyweight – 47.1%
Middleweight – 52.8%
Welterweight – 51.2%
Lightweight – 45.5%
Featherweight – 50.0%
Bantamweight – 57.1%
Flyweight – 28.6%

Average Finishing Percentage: 52.7% (126 finishes from 239 fights)

Obviously, the heavyweight and flyweight numbers jump off the page, as most people probably expected. It is worth noting that there have only been seven flyweight fights to date, which is a pretty small sample size. Had one more of those bouts been a finish, their percentage jumps to 42.8%, a figure that would place them in second place behind the heavyweights. This is one of the reasons I think excluding the higher and lower limits paints a more accurate picture. More on that shortly.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/09...ses-finishers/
Hope this helps.

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09-27-2012, 06:25 PM
  #396
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Hope this helps.
Nice, thanks. Is that main event fights, or all fights? Not that it matters much I guess, I suppose the numbers wouldn't be that different.

The reason I asked about main events though is because it seems many of the top ranked guys in the lighter weight classes are decision machines lately. I looked at a few of their records and this is what I found:

- Demetrius Johnson (decisions in all 6 of his UFC fights)
- Joseph Benevidez (decisions in 3 of 4 UFC fights)
- Dominick Cruz (decisions in both UFC fights, 8 of his last 9 fights)
- Urijah Faber (decisions in 3 of 4 UFC fights)
- Jose Aldo (decisions in 2 of 3 UFC fights)
- Benson Henderson (decisions in all 5 UFC fights)
- Frankie Edgar (decisions in 10 of 13 UFC fights)
- Gray Maynard (decisions in 9 of last 10 UFC fights)

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09-27-2012, 06:49 PM
  #397
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^ Makes sense. You're just trying no to lose in those big fights.

That is kinda what the UFC cut system has done to fighters. Exciting fighters stick around, but its hard to do that fight in and fight out, so they just go for the W.

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09-27-2012, 08:02 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
^ Makes sense. You're just trying no to lose in those big fights.

That is kinda what the UFC cut system has done to fighters. Exciting fighters stick around, but its hard to do that fight in and fight out, so they just go for the W.
I agree but you have to cut guys, its part of the process. I guess the key is to not have so many low-level guys that are basically fodder waiting to be cut.

The other thing IMO is the bonus structure in the UFC. I've said before they need to scrap the win bonuses and scrap the 'of the night' bonuses and just award large finishing bonuses. Right now a guy doubles his paycheque if he wins, but if they made it so he tripled his paycheque if he finished you would probably see guys going for it more often.

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09-27-2012, 11:55 PM
  #399
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I agree but you have to cut guys, its part of the process. I guess the key is to not have so many low-level guys that are basically fodder waiting to be cut.

The other thing IMO is the bonus structure in the UFC. I've said before they need to scrap the win bonuses and scrap the 'of the night' bonuses and just award large finishing bonuses. Right now a guy doubles his paycheque if he wins, but if they made it so he tripled his paycheque if he finished you would probably see guys going for it more often.
Changing the incentive model would definitely help. You get what you pay for, and fighters are paid for wins.

Changing the scoring model would also help. I'm tired of seeing "dominant position" and "controlling the octagon" playing into decisions at all. Scoring should be exclusively be about landing strikes and submission attempts - from any position. There's already incentive enough for achieving a dominant position in that it grants you the opportunity to land more strikes and attempt more submissions.

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