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#1 defenseman to Detroit

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Old
09-27-2012, 04:00 PM
  #26
Ishad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I dont think the Wings have what it would take to trade for a top-pairing dman other than Datsyuk or Zetterberg.
We have enough forward futures to pry a defense man from failing team that was looking to rebuild. But a #1 dman from a playoff team? nope.

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Old
09-27-2012, 05:33 PM
  #27
Vankiller Whale
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Edler + Connauton for Flippula and Smith.

Edler and Flippula have the same contract status.

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Old
09-27-2012, 08:01 PM
  #28
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I do not think we need a number one, but rather just more depth. Maybe instead of McQuaid from Boston, Andrew Ference could be a fit. I don't know what the Bruins would ask for though for him but I would consider Ference and up grade over Ian White.

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Old
09-27-2012, 08:03 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edler + Connauton for Flippula and Smith.

Edler and Flippula have the same contract status.
No from Detroit. Edler would be nice but I expect Flip to be a valuable piece to this team.

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Old
09-27-2012, 08:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
True #1 for me would just be the top 15ish defenseman in the league.

I'd even do Filppula + Franzen. I just hope nobody knows Franzen is even lazier than Sergei was when he dogged it.

Off the top of my head people can pretty much take their picks of: Filppula, Franzen, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Quincey, Sproul, Ouellete, draft picks. It's not an overly impressive list but it's what we have
But what team is going to trade a top 15ish defenseman for that package, especially when half of it could be a ufa next summer? What top 15ish defensemen are even really available? Suter isn't going anywhere, neither is Weber. LA isn't trading Doughty, Boston isn't moving Chara. Don't see that package getting Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk out of St. Louis. Ottawa isn't moving Karlsson. Can't see Chicago trading Keith or Seabrook. There are some more offensive guys like Campbell or Byfuglien that might be more available, but if you are looking for a more defensive defensive guy, they might not be on the top of your list. Yandle might be available because of the Phoenix mess, but that's a maybe.

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Old
09-27-2012, 08:48 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The Wings' current defense looks something like this:

Niklas Kronwall/Ian White
Kyle Quincey/Jonathan Ericsson
Jakub Kindl/Brendan Smith
Carlo Colaiacovo

What/who would be the trade to get a #1 defenseman added on, someone who can play the shut-down role well 20+ minutes a night and has offensive skills?

Off-limits are:
Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Howard

Ideally off-limits:
Filppula, Nyquist, Smith

I'm going to start with a baseline:

Johan Franzen + Kyle Quincey = Tobias Enstrom + Kyle Wellwood + WPG 2nd


Under what circumstances does this make sense for the Jets? Nevermind lack of value, Toby just signed a 5 year extension with the Jets at a bit of a hometown discount. He has bought into True North's vision. He won't be traded as they are trying to develop a loyalty first mentality...kind of reminds me of the Wings?

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Old
09-27-2012, 09:40 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edler + Connauton for Flippula and Smith.

Edler and Flippula have the same contract status.
Ok, so Filppula for Edler should be a fair deal then, no need to involve Smith right?

If Vancouver thinks they're going to keep him, he's not going to be moved. If they think he's leaving, he isn't worth more than Filppula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
What is this? An aging winger and a mediocre to terrible dman for a no1 dman who just signed a new contract plus more coming back?

No that won't work.

Nyquist + a usable forward who ISN'T old + 1st pick <--> Yandle
Like a Drew Miller?

Would they do it if they took Quincey in that slot instead, so:

Nyquist/Quincey/1st = Yandle

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Is that a joke? Thats god awful for WIN. Why would they ever make that trade? Detroit should be adding a pick, not the other way around.
So Franzen+Quincey+DET 2nd = Enstrom+Wellwood, then?

I'll take that.

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Old
09-27-2012, 09:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ok, so Filppula for Edler should be a fair deal then, no need to involve Smith right?
Edler is better than Filppula, though...

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Old
09-27-2012, 09:58 PM
  #34
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Kindl, Tatar, 1st for Dan Boyle?

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Old
09-27-2012, 10:11 PM
  #35
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To be frank though - I say stand pat.

Kronwall White
Ericsson Quincey
Coliacovo Smith
Kindl

...overall not a god awful D-core. If Coliacovo stays somewhat healthy and bangs in 30ish points he will be regarded as a huge success. Ericsson is a late bloomer IMO and will really take a step forward being that he's the 2nd most tenured Red Wing dman now. In a purely shutdown role he outperformed Stuart down the stretch last season.

If Brendan Smith is 60% of what we've all be saying he is for the past 3 seasons then he should be getting special teams time and top 4 minutes by christmas time as he clearly has the goods/blueprint to be a premiere dman in the NHL.

Kindls backs against the wall and he knows it. Contract year - he wont earn any interest if he spends the season in the pressbox. Expect to see him compete much more consistently this year. Consistent grit is his biggest weakness - he has size, strength, mobility, and puck skills ... if he can play like a man and not a timid kid out there he might suprise allot of us and steal someones spot if an injury arises.

Run this group of misfit toys this season and see what it gets us. We lost a 42 year old Lidstrom and a Brad Stuart who made a TON of boneheaded plays last year. Quincey, Coliacovo and Smith arent Lidstrom and Stuart - but Lids and Stuart werent the same players they were in 3-5 years ago either. The drop-off is being exaggerated.

Hopefully the talk of MG low-balling Edler is true and he ends up hitting free agency. He doesnt own a farm in Madison and his wife isnt from Minnesota - dont kids yourselves, Det will be at the top of Edlers list if he makes it to July 1st.

A fairly low-profile trade (deadline deal perhaps) I wouldnt mind would be a Douglas Murray or Robyn Regehr type. Big bodied shutdown guy that plays a simple hard game and isn't expensive. Just an option.

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Old
09-27-2012, 10:18 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edler is better than Filppula, though...
But why does Smith get involved at all?

If you want to play the game of "which pending UFA is better" then consider it two teams trading for each others' UFA's rights. What are Edler's rights worth? A 2nd? What are Flip's rights worth? A 2nd? A 3rd?

Ok.

Edler and a 3rd for Flip and a 2nd.

Better?

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Old
09-27-2012, 10:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
But why does Smith get involved at all?

If you want to play the game of "which pending UFA is better" then consider it two teams trading for each others' UFA's rights. What are Edler's rights worth? A 2nd? What are Flip's rights worth? A 2nd? A 3rd?

Ok.

Edler and a 3rd for Flip and a 2nd.

Better?
A top 15 dman in the league, even with 1 year left, is still worth a top prospect+. I see Edler >> Filppula(in the current market for #1 defensemen), and Smith >> than Connauton.

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Old
09-27-2012, 11:00 PM
  #38
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Without moving Smith involved, there's likely no hope for Detroit to get a #1 or #2 defenceman.

Edler + 1st for Filppula and Smith

That's probably close valuewise.

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Old
09-27-2012, 11:04 PM
  #39
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Smith, Nyquist, Datsyuk and a 1st for Erik Karlsson

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Old
09-27-2012, 11:08 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Without moving Smith involved, there's likely no hope for Detroit to get a #1 or #2 defenceman.

Edler + 1st for Filppula and Smith

That's probably close valuewise.
Meh, I wouldn't want to move our 1st. Connauton is our best defensive prospect, he just doesn't fit on our depth chart with so many lefties.

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Old
09-28-2012, 04:14 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Meh, I wouldn't want to move our 1st. Connauton is our best defensive prospect, he just doesn't fit on our depth chart with so many lefties.

But then you want to move Edler?


Edler stays. I don't see these two teams dealing with each other any time soon. Competition is still fierce in the west.


VAN cannot afford to let Edler walk. And DET is looking at Filpulla as next in line for Datsyuk/Zetterberg. Both teams say no.

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Old
09-28-2012, 05:54 AM
  #42
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Vancouver probably shouldn't move their all-star dman if they want to compete anytime soon.

How about Tyler Myers?

Detroit:
Myers
Ennis

Buffalo:
Franzen
Quincey
Smith

Buffalo has a surplus of centers, and why the hell not change the look of their team by trading Myers. Might be selling high, while his stock is still high.

Detroit gets a high-potential dman who's already very good and a young center to prepare for Z and D getting long in the tooth. (In case their forward prospects happen to not all turn out as instant stars).

Maybe throw in Nyquist going to Buffalo.

This could make sense if Detroit management wanted the sure thing of Ennis rather than the potential of a good forward prospect in Nyquist.

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:15 AM
  #43
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At least Detroit's next 5 1st round picks are in play (assuming they have them ATM)

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:55 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Smith, Nyquist, Datsyuk and a 1st for Erik Karlsson
Datsyuk is possibly my favorite non-Senator player, so I say this with as much respect as I can muster: he's 34 years old and we might not have hockey this year, which means we wouldn't get a full season out of him until he's 35. Datsyuk is not the direction the Sens are going in, he's just too old to be giving up a player like Karlsson for, regardless of the extras involved.

In summary: while Datzyuk > Karlsson, the age difference is too much for a team like the Senators who are building from the ground up for success over the next 10 years, not the next 2-3, to overcome.

Pass from the Sens.

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Old
09-28-2012, 07:08 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Datsyuk is possibly my favorite non-Senator player, so I say this with as much respect as I can muster: he's 34 years old and we might not have hockey this year, which means we wouldn't get a full season out of him until he's 35. Datsyuk is not the direction the Sens are going in, he's just too old to be giving up a player like Karlsson for, regardless of the extras involved.

In summary: while Datzyuk > Karlsson, the age difference is too much for a team like the Senators who are building from the ground up for success over the next 10 years, not the next 2-3, to overcome.

Pass from the Sens.


Absolutly terrible for Detroit, giving up there Top 2 prospects and a 1st that without Datsyuk could easily be a Top 10 pick in a deep draft.

I mean the OP's deal is bad, but this one is even worse.

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Old
09-28-2012, 07:46 AM
  #46
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Absolutly terrible for Detroit, giving up there Top 2 prospects and a 1st that without Datsyuk could easily be a Top 10 pick in a deep draft.

I mean the OP's deal is bad, but this one is even worse.
I wasn't saying the value was bad at all, quite the opposite. I loves me some Datsyuk. The value is clearly, clearly there for the Sens to make that deal, obviously.

Just saying that it's not a good fit for the Sens. If we're moving Karlsson, I want someone >30 in return. Moving our young skilled pieces for old pieces is counter-productive to what we're trying to do in Ottawa.

It's like, even if Datsyuk is a $5000 jar of caviar... if you are allergic to seafood, it's not going to matter how good it tastes / how rare it is. It's not a perfect analogy, I confess, I'm just trying to show that while some things are valuable, they're not necessarily what you need.

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Old
09-28-2012, 08:08 AM
  #47
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If the Wings want a #1 defenseman without gutting their roster/prospects, they have to trade Datsyuk - simple as that. Despite his age, he has very high value and can fetch a #1 defenseman. Also, the Wings would still be a strong offensive team with two-way play even if Datsyuk is gone. I know Wings fans won't enjoy having to part with him but you have to give to get.

Long ago, I proposed Ryan Suter for Datsyuk and with some kinks here and there, it wasn't that poorly recieved. Obviously it can't be done anymore though.

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Old
09-28-2012, 08:22 AM
  #48
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I'd be game trading anyone not named Kronwall or Howard, really. The Red Wings have some up and comers, like Pulkinnen, Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Tatar, but also have too many tweeners, like Miller, Eaves, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Emmerton, Mursak. Ideally, they could ship 2 of those tweeners and a prospect + picks for a #2 or #3 defensemen who could play with Kronwall, who in my mind, is a very solid #2.

I would be opposed to trading Datsyuk either, just not for a Luke Schenn or something like that. He has two more seasons on his contract and has indicated he would like to retire to Russia to be with his daughter.


Last edited by Osgood As It Gets: 09-28-2012 at 08:27 AM.
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Old
09-28-2012, 09:00 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edler is better than Filppula, though...
You underrate Filppula

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Old
09-28-2012, 09:01 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HardingsJockstrap View Post
I'd be game trading anyone not named Kronwall or Howard, really. The Red Wings have some up and comers, like Pulkinnen, Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Tatar, but also have too many tweeners, like Miller, Eaves, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Emmerton, Mursak. Ideally, they could ship 2 of those tweeners and a prospect + picks for a #2 or #3 defensemen who could play with Kronwall, who in my mind, is a very solid #2.

I would be opposed to trading Datsyuk either, just not for a Luke Schenn or something like that. He has two more seasons on his contract and has indicated he would like to retire to Russia to be with his daughter.
Even knowing that, I'd try to work around Edler and Datsyuk for sure. It would essentially be Vancouver going for it all right now. I realize we open a huge hole while filling another, but I feel we could make it work somehow along the way. We'd need to pick up another defenseman for picks at some point throughout the season, but since our prime concern has being playoff scoring, I think I'd do it. Would DET fans consider this? I wouldn't worry about Edler's contract status, I feel DET would be one of the places he'd gladly re-sign (many Swedes there)

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Datsyuk-Kassian
Higgins-Kesler-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra-LaPierre

I like that.. Haha.

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