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12/13' Offseason/Trades/Proposals: Leafs players and picks for a 1st. line ...

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:33 AM
  #226
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Kule may be on a crash collision with Ashton in a year or 2. Again I love Kule's attributes, he is the best corner man, defensive fwd on our team. When he plays big he's a monster work horse.

But if he slips to a 3rd line player, I think this is where Ashton(who I predict will breakout soon) becomes a better fit. So while I like Kule, if he doesn't fit into the top 6, he may be on the way out.

He's part of the top 6 that have failed miserably the past 4 years, we need to add and subtract from the group. Starting with unloading that 5.5M overpaid contract to one of the most overrated players on the team and misguided fan favorite, Mikhail Grabvoski.

At the moment, JVR is the only one that is absolved of any blame. For this team to move fwd it has to make significant changes, to go with this nucleus for a 5th straight year and expect different results, is idiotic IMO. If we were actually close to making the playoffs then I can see some logic that we may be close, but 25th place is not going in the right direction and not close top making the playoffs.

Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.

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09-24-2012, 08:37 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.
I'm projecting a big year from him with the Marlies, he's a big kid, he's got the tools to play in this league. We will have a clearer picture as the year unfolds, but he's going to play IMO.

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09-24-2012, 08:38 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
Did any good come out of trading Steen and Cola? No.

There's your answer.
If they had been traded for a Backes or Oshie instead of a bag of pucks, it would've been good.

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09-24-2012, 09:57 AM
  #229
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If they had been traded for a Backes or Oshie instead of a bag of pucks, it would've been good.
It wouldn't have happened

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09-24-2012, 11:04 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.
He actually had 38 points in 63 games, and for a 20 year old in that league, that's not bad at all. Only a handful of 20 year olds put up better numbers and most of those guys played 5-10 more games than he did.

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09-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #231
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[QUOTE=ULF_55;54550909]Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.[/QUOTE

Ya 21 goals in 63 games as a 21 yr old rookie in the ahl is very very underwhelming..... lol


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09-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #232
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[QUOTE=Randy8706;54553325]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.[/QUOTE

Ya 21 goals in 63 games as a 21 yr old rookie in the ahl is very very underwhelming..... lol
Do you just talk because you think it sounds good?
That's why I talk. err type

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09-24-2012, 11:47 AM
  #233
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[QUOTE=Randy8706;54553325]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.[/QUOTE

Ya 21 goals in 63 games as a 21 yr old rookie in the ahl is very very underwhelming..... lol
Yes, 38 points in 63 games is not that impressive.

I'm guessing you thought his NHL debut was okay?

As I said a long way to go before he's knocking NHL players out of the line-up.

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09-24-2012, 12:17 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yes, 38 points in 63 games is not that impressive.

I'm guessing you thought his NHL debut was okay?

As I said a long way to go before he's knocking NHL players out of the line-up.
I agree. I don't think he's proven anything yet. Kulemin is still a very important player for us and will likely have an important role for us under Carlyle.

As for Ashton, I think guys like Ross and Biggs will eventually pass him. He plays some what tough, but nothing else. A lesser Kilger is what I see so far. But I expect more from checking lines that scoring potential. Shut down defense, agitator, middle weight fighter.

Corson - Green - Tucker was one of my favorite lines.

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09-24-2012, 06:13 PM
  #235
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I was actually impressed by the way Ashton worked along the boards and drove the net. I thought he was one of the best on the team at these skills, which isn't saying much considering our forward group. Obviously his offensive game needs to come a long way before he can become a bonafide power forward in the NHL, but the makings are there. He's already a strong kid, and he'll continue to get stronger, obviously the hands and vision need to translate. He's a project, let's not write the kid off already, although this is par for the course with the majority of Leafs fans. Our prospects aren't allowed to be projects.

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Old
09-26-2012, 04:51 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Based on the viewing of Ashton in the NHL, he's got a long way to go before he's knocking a NHL player out of the line up.

Very underwhelming performance for him, his 35 points in 56 AHL games, even his CHL numbers are underwhelming.

Old story, a big man has to prove he can't play.
This was his rookie year you know that right.

Both in AHL and NHL. Ashton has a lot of thigns to work on but he's not even close to being an NHL bust.

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09-26-2012, 08:16 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
I was actually impressed by the way Ashton worked along the boards and drove the net. I thought he was one of the best on the team at these skills, which isn't saying much considering our forward group. Obviously his offensive game needs to come a long way before he can become a bonafide power forward in the NHL, but the makings are there. He's already a strong kid, and he'll continue to get stronger, obviously the hands and vision need to translate. He's a project, let's not write the kid off already, although this is par for the course with the majority of Leafs fans. Our prospects aren't allowed to be projects.
So he's a star?!
No he's a write off?!

That's the trouble with inexperience, they want their fastfood, and don't want to have to earn it.

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This was his rookie year you know that right.

Both in AHL and NHL. Ashton has a lot of thigns to work on but he's not even close to being an NHL bust.
Where did I say he was a bust?

You realize you can't just be giving things to every prospect? They have to earn it, and believe it or not most don't.

Shiny new toy is always better than the old reliable NHLer.

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09-26-2012, 08:21 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Where did I say he was a bust?

You realize you can't just be giving things to every prospect? They have to earn it, and believe it or not most don't.

Shiny new toy is always better than the old reliable NHLer.
I agree that a full-time spot should definitely be earned, but I think it's great that Burke and co. try to give their top prospects a taste of what it's like to play in the Big Leagues so that they know what exactly it is that they have to earn. That 15-game stint probably didn't hurt the Leafs much, but I bet Ashton learned a lot from it.

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09-26-2012, 08:41 AM
  #239
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I agree that a full-time spot should definitely be earned, but I think it's great that Burke and co. try to give their top prospects a taste of what it's like to play in the Big Leagues so that they know what exactly it is that they have to earn. That 15-game stint probably didn't hurt the Leafs much, but I bet Ashton learned a lot from it.
The only concern I have is they gave it to him (the call-up) because they traded for him and wanted to insinuate that they got a NHL ready player.

I'm not worried about whether it was good or bad for the Leafs, they weren't going to be hurt by a prospect after what they endured from Wilson.

Almost was too convenient to call him up after trading for him, when it isn't like he was ripping up the minors. It could also be considered a snub to the Marlies who had put in their efforts for the club all season.

It would be nice if they could reward all their waiver free players with a few games here and there. Eventually they won't be waiver free and then it could be an all or nothing situation where they lose a player on waivers without ever giving them the same opportunity.

Again, people have to stop thinking that any negative comment about a player is calling him a bust. It is like talking to someone who cannot accept direction and runs away and pouts because they need to learn something. I'm older than most here and I look forward to learning something everyday. Being in I.T. is great for that very reason, it is constantly moving, and if you can't accept direction / instruction your life is going to be very limited.

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09-26-2012, 10:25 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
The only concern I have is they gave it to him (the call-up) because they traded for him and wanted to insinuate that they got a NHL ready player.

I'm not worried about whether it was good or bad for the Leafs, they weren't going to be hurt by a prospect after what they endured from Wilson.

Almost was too convenient to call him up after trading for him, when it isn't like he was ripping up the minors. It could also be considered a snub to the Marlies who had put in their efforts for the club all season.

It would be nice if they could reward all their waiver free players with a few games here and there. Eventually they won't be waiver free and then it could be an all or nothing situation where they lose a player on waivers without ever giving them the same opportunity.

Again, people have to stop thinking that any negative comment about a player is calling him a bust. It is like talking to someone who cannot accept direction and runs away and pouts because they need to learn something. I'm older than most here and I look forward to learning something everyday. Being in I.T. is great for that very reason, it is constantly moving, and if you can't accept direction / instruction your life is going to be very limited.
It's very typical of Burke and co to give prospects a taste at the NHL to see the caliber that they need to play at. Ashton had never played an NHL game. That time in the N certainly showed him what needs to be done to make it full time.

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09-26-2012, 10:35 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
The only concern I have is they gave it to him (the call-up) because they traded for him and wanted to insinuate that they got a NHL ready player.

I'm not worried about whether it was good or bad for the Leafs, they weren't going to be hurt by a prospect after what they endured from Wilson.

Almost was too convenient to call him up after trading for him, when it isn't like he was ripping up the minors. It could also be considered a snub to the Marlies who had put in their efforts for the club all season.

It would be nice if they could reward all their waiver free players with a few games here and there. Eventually they won't be waiver free and then it could be an all or nothing situation where they lose a player on waivers without ever giving them the same opportunity.

Again, people have to stop thinking that any negative comment about a player is calling him a bust. It is like talking to someone who cannot accept direction and runs away and pouts because they need to learn something. I'm older than most here and I look forward to learning something everyday. Being in I.T. is great for that very reason, it is constantly moving, and if you can't accept direction / instruction your life is going to be very limited.
Burke doesn't run the team hoping his waiver free players think he's a nice guy. Most of the older Marlies players are just AHL filler, simple as that. Sure it was nice to give Ryan Hamilton a couple of games last season, but the development of actual propects that could have an impact on the team down the road is more important than being a nice guy.

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Old
09-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #242
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I was actually impressed by the way Ashton worked along the boards and drove the net. I thought he was one of the best on the team at these skills, which isn't saying much considering our forward group. Obviously his offensive game needs to come a long way before he can become a bonafide power forward in the NHL, but the makings are there. He's already a strong kid, and he'll continue to get stronger, obviously the hands and vision need to translate. He's a project, let's not write the kid off already, although this is par for the course with the majority of Leafs fans. Our prospects aren't allowed to be projects.
Here's the interesting thing about Carter Ashton, Leafs targeted him for awhile now.

Lawton ex GM is on record as saying Leafs offered to trade Kaberle to them for Ashton and 1st rd pick before the 09-10 season. Lawton didn't want to do that deal, consequently we were able to pick up Joe Colborne, Liles and Tyler Biggs for Kaberle and a 2nd rd pick. Sometimes the best deals are the one's you don't make.

I see Ashton as a solid dependable workhorse winger in the NHL, he's got intangibles that stats won't measure.

But I do find it ironic that Leafs were able to get him a second time around and he may be playing with Tyler Biggs and Joe Colborne one day. All 3 linked to the Kaberle deal that didn't go through and the one that did.

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09-26-2012, 02:16 PM
  #243
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Okay, ULF is not saying that Ashton's a bust. He's just stating the obvious- Ashton was not, by any means, a standout. The kid has a long way to go before he can be a useful NHL'er. He's got a decent skill-set but his offense is pretty simple because his hockey IQ is far from great.

Personally, I really liked Aulie and wasn't a huge fan of the trade. This, by no means says that Ashton is a bust, just that he's got work to do. I liked what I saw of him in CC Finals last season though; he was one of the better players (I'm speaking of when Kadri and Frattin were both out) but he only seemed marginally more useful than Deschamps.

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09-27-2012, 10:00 PM
  #244
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fleury to toronto

reimer kulemin and you tell me for fleury

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09-27-2012, 10:06 PM
  #245
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Personally I think Fleury is still very strongly apart of Pittsburgh's core and would take quite a bit more to get him.

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09-28-2012, 11:23 AM
  #246
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Here's the interesting thing about Carter Ashton, Leafs targeted him for awhile now.

Lawton ex GM is on record as saying Leafs offered to trade Kaberle to them for Ashton and 1st rd pick before the 09-10 season. Lawton didn't want to do that deal, consequently we were able to pick up Joe Colborne, Liles and Tyler Biggs for Kaberle and a 2nd rd pick. Sometimes the best deals are the one's you don't make.

I see Ashton as a solid dependable workhorse winger in the NHL, he's got intangibles that stats won't measure.

But I do find it ironic that Leafs were able to get him a second time around and he may be playing with Tyler Biggs and Joe Colborne one day. All 3 linked to the Kaberle deal that didn't go through and the one that did.
Really, the best deal?

Don't know about that at all.

I think i would rather have the 6th pick overall(2010 Tbay drafted 6th) , Ashton , Aulie and the 38th draft slot.

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09-28-2012, 11:33 AM
  #247
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Really, the best deal?

Don't know about that at all.

I think i would rather have the 6th pick overall(2010 Tbay drafted 6th) , Ashton , Aulie and the 38th draft slot.
No kidding.

I know Leafs may not have drafted the same guys, blah blah blah, but we would have had Brett Connolly, Carter Ashton, Keith Aulie and John Gibson instead of Colborne, Biggs, Ashton and Liles.

I'd take Connolly over both Colborne/Biggs every day of the week.

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09-29-2012, 04:50 AM
  #248
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I feel like if we trade for Paul stastny from the Avs, we would be very much interested in Michael Sgarbossa

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09-29-2012, 06:35 AM
  #249
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I am not sold on Ashton. He has size, some grit, medium level offensive ability. He can hit. But I don't think he has the hands to be a top 6 power forward. He also doesn't have the hands to be a tough guy. He doesn't win too many fights. Props for stepping up, but you need those third line guys to change momentum with a solid win. Hope I am wrong, but I think that is one trade I wish Burke didn't make. I understand we had lots of prospects on defense. Ashton is the type of player we wanted, i just think he doesn't have it at the NHL level.

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09-29-2012, 08:24 AM
  #250
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I am not sold on Ashton. He has size, some grit, medium level offensive ability. He can hit. But I don't think he has the hands to be a top 6 power forward. He also doesn't have the hands to be a tough guy. He doesn't win too many fights. Props for stepping up, but you need those third line guys to change momentum with a solid win. Hope I am wrong, but I think that is one trade I wish Burke didn't make. I understand we had lots of prospects on defense. Ashton is the type of player we wanted, i just think he doesn't have it at the NHL level.
I think with the right guy beside him, he can thrive. I like what I saw when he was getting his game going on in the end of the season with Marlies. I really think a lot of people are undervalue this guy.

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