Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Not a Sharks fan, but I think they should seriously consider this. Boyle is 36 now, and their defence is one of the deeper groups in the league. However they have a severe lack of youth and speed (probably the worst prospect pool in the league).
Saad is one of the better offensive prospects to come out of the 2011 draft, and Teravainen was, by some estimations, the 3rd best forward in the 2012 draft. Both of them would instantly revive their prospect pool.
Maybe throw Frolik in as the cap dump instead of Montador/Odyua. I do concede the pick might need to become a 1st though.
I applaud the OP for not making a 'trash for star' proposal.
If the Sharks were going to sell Pavelski and Boyle, they would get more and likely much more favorable pieces in separate deals.
I don't see how this makes the Sharks better, either.
As far as the original proposal. We wouldn't want Oduya or Montador back. We're CLOGGED with talent on the backend. Change the 2nd to a 1st. Thats pretty much the starting point. Not sure where else to go from there....
Not a Sharks fan, but I think they should seriously consider this. Boyle is 36 now, and their defence is one of the deeper groups in the league. However they have a severe lack of youth and speed (probably the worst prospect pool in the league).
Saad is one of the better offensive prospects to come out of the 2011 draft, and Teravainen was, by some estimations, the 3rd best forward in the 2012 draft. Both of them would instantly revive their prospect pool.
Maybe throw Frolik in as the cap dump instead of Montador/Odyua. I do concede the pick might need to become a 1st though.
I applaud the OP for not making a 'trash for star' proposal.
It may not be a trash for star proposal but it doesn't take into account the Sharks' needs. The Sharks don't really care what their prospect pool looks like. If they have any prospect that is worth a damn, he is fast-tracked to the NHL to help them out.
If they got Saad and Teravainen and thought they were legit NHL prospects, they wouldn't be prospects very long.
In my estimation, this isn't a good deal for the Sharks. Two prospects, a pick, and a dump is not good enough for two legitimately great players. The Sharks could get a hell of a lot more for these two players in separate deals. Boyle, even at 36, is worth a solid young NHL asset and a pick on his own. Pavs is at least equal to that and likely more.
It may not be a trash for star proposal but it doesn't take into account the Sharks' needs. The Sharks don't really care what their prospect pool looks like. If they have any prospect that is worth a damn, he is fast-tracked to the NHL to help them out.
If they got Saad and Teravainen and thought they were legit NHL prospects, they wouldn't be prospects very long.
In my estimation, this isn't a good deal for the Sharks. Two prospects, a pick, and a dump is not good enough for two legitimately great players. The Sharks could get a hell of a lot more for these two players in separate deals. Boyle, even at 36, is worth a solid young NHL asset and a pick on his own. Pavs is at least equal to that and likely more.
Fair enough if the Sharks intend to employ a 'win now at all costs' attitude. My personal opinion is that San Jose might be better served making sure they can easily manage a transition from a core of Thornton, Marleau and Boyle to a younger group without falling off a cliff. Especially if we get a full season lockout. Saad and Teravainen are genuine top-20 forward prospects in the game right now. It's not entirely unreasonable I think.
Although given Chicago's main need is a centre, I do agree something around Pavelski for Saad/Teravainen + 1st + reasonable roster player/prospect be more realistic
Fair enough if the Sharks intend to employ a 'win now at all costs' attitude. My personal opinion is that San Jose might be better served making sure they can easily manage a transition from a core of Thornton, Marleau and Boyle to a younger group without falling off a cliff. Especially if we get a full season lockout. Saad and Teravainen are genuine top-20 forward prospects in the game right now. It's not entirely unreasonable I think.
I don't see how that would work. By moving Boyle and Pavelski they get significantly worse right now. By the time Saad and Teravainen are ready to make an impact, if they ever reach that phase in the first place, the rest of San Jose's core is old and needs to be replaced. In short, they waste the few years the current core has left without any guarantee for a longterm gain. They would need to trade off their whole core for great prospects in hope to make an impact in five years at the earliest, and even then it's not sure whether that team will have more of a chance to win than the current one.
If they did this deal and then moved Thornton, Marleau and Niemi, you're looking at a power house of a team in 3-4 years. Figure you get 3-4 more prospects of the Saad/TT blue chip pedigree and a couple very high draft picks of their own....yikes, that team would be freaking stacked, wayyyyy better than what the Oilers have going right now.
I don't see how that would work. By moving Boyle and Pavelski they get significantly worse right now. By the time Saad and Teravainen are ready to make an impact, if they ever reach that phase in the first place, the rest of San Jose's core is old and needs to be replaced. In short, they waste the few years the current core has left without any guarantee for a longterm gain. They would need to trade off their whole core for great prospects in hope to make an impact in five years at the earliest, and even then it's not sure whether that team will have more of a chance to win than the current one.
That is true, however I don't really see them as a powerhouse any more. Certainly i'm not advocating they blow up the team completely, that would be an absurd gamble. However i'm sceptical that their core, particularly Boyle, can continue to perform at the highest level in the future. I think they're taking a 'double or nothing' type approach if they continue with their current core in its entirety. I feel they would be better served by moving a current core piece for good return, and still being a genuine competitor when Boyle, Marleau and Thornton are gone.
I disagree that they would need to trade away their entire core to make an impact in 5 years. Couture, Burns, Braun, Demers and Vlasic are all under 27. Adding two genuine blue-chippers in Saad and Teravainen, at the expense of a single piece (certainly Boyle will not be around in 5 years unless he becomes Lidstrom Mk.II), would go a long way towards creating a competitive group. I take the position that the short term disadvantage is less than the long term disadvantage they avoid by obtaining a couple of blue-chips.
Last edited by Yossarian54: 09-27-2012 at 10:31 AM.
That is true, however I don't really see them as a powerhouse any more. Certainly i'm not advocating they blow up the team completely, that would be an absurd gamble. However i'm sceptical that their core, particularly Boyle, can continue to perform at the highest level in the future. I think they're taking a 'double or nothing' type approach if they continue with their current core in its entirety. I feel they would be better served by moving a current core piece for good return, and still being a genuine competitor when Boyle, Marleau and Thornton are gone.
I disagree that they would need to trade away their entire core to make an impact in 5 years. Couture, Burns, Braun, Demers and Vlasic are all under 27. Adding two genuine blue-chippers in Saad and Teravainen, at the expense of a single piece (certainly Boyle will not be around in 5 years unless he becomes Lidstrom Mk.II), would go a long way towards creating a competitive group. I take the position that the short term disadvantage is less than the long term disadvantage they avoid by obtaining a couple of blue-chips.
It really depends on what Sharks fan you talk to. I think that the window of true contention has passed, and we should be working on a preemptive rebuild. This deal favors Chicago, but say, if the 2nd were changed to a 1st, a B prospect were added, and the cap dump was Frolik, then we could certainly talk. Adding Teravainen and Saad to a group of Couture, Hertl, Nieto, and Hamilton would go a helluva long way toward rebuilding. Then you could sell off Thornton, Marleau, Clowe, and/or Murray to the highest bidder and tank a year, and then be right back in the thick of things. Losing Pavelski would be very, very hard, but I don't want to go through an Edmonton type of rebuild, where they sucked for a couple of years before they managed to tank.
It really depends on what Sharks fan you talk to. I think that the window of true contention has passed, and we should be working on a preemptive rebuild. This deal favors Chicago, but say, if the 2nd were changed to a 1st, a B prospect were added, and the cap dump was Frolik, then we could certainly talk. Adding Teravainen and Saad to a group of Couture, Hertl, Nieto, and Hamilton would go a helluva long way toward rebuilding. Then you could sell off Thornton, Marleau, Clowe, and/or Murray to the highest bidder and tank a year, and then be right back in the thick of things. Losing Pavelski would be very, very hard, but I don't want to go through an Edmonton type of rebuild, where they sucked for a couple of years before they managed to tank.
I completely agree. I would do 1st + Frolik + Saad + TT + B-prospect for Boyle + Pavs...
If the Sharks decide to do a full rebuild, this would be the perfect start. The Sharks forward corp of prospects goes from depressing to exciting all in one move. It hurts tremendously short term but it goes a long way towards helping the team contend in about 3 years.
This would also make Chicago scary good imeediately. Boyle would add a good 2-5 percentage points to Chicago's PP right off the bat and in Toews/Pavelski/Bolland you have three of the best defensive centers in the game as a 1-2-3 punch up the middle. Chicago becomes arguably the top Cup contender.
Fair enough if the Sharks intend to employ a 'win now at all costs' attitude. My personal opinion is that San Jose might be better served making sure they can easily manage a transition from a core of Thornton, Marleau and Boyle to a younger group without falling off a cliff. Especially if we get a full season lockout. Saad and Teravainen are genuine top-20 forward prospects in the game right now. It's not entirely unreasonable I think.
Although given Chicago's main need is a centre, I do agree something around Pavelski for Saad/Teravainen + 1st + reasonable roster player/prospect be more realistic
They would be better served but they don't have the expendable assets to do that with the possible exception of Dan Boyle due to their depth on the blue line. Going forward, their forwards are the only thing that need to be addressed in terms of preparing for later. Goaltending and the blue line are fine. Hopefully, Hertl helps and becomes the #2 to Couture in a few years but they can definitely use more young help up front. The issue is that they're not going to sacrifice next season for futures unless those guys can help them now. Saad and Teravainen are not those guys even though they are exactly what you said they are and I would love to have them in the Sharks organization. It's just not likely in the cards.
Imo, the only guy they should trade right now is Dan Boyle for forward help and, depending on what was thrown our way, future assets. Pavelski is too important now and going forward to trade especially given that his trade value is not likely equal to his team value. To trade him, you'd need a Pavelski clone coming back that would be younger and faster. It is unlikely any team can or would offer that.
Of all the teams in the NHL the Sharks have been poised to win the Cup the longest but have always come up short. Maybe this year is their mantra but I think that it is time for them to rebuild. Wilson will need to leave along with Thorton and company. Get a bunch of Grade A+ prospects and start over. That said I would hate to see the Hawks part with TT but Pavelski would be an awesome addition not to mention Boyle.
I hope you're kidding. That deal is a good one for Chicago. A #1 defenseman for at least 2 more years and an elite #2C in his prime who's locked up two more years on a phenomenal contract for two prospects, a 1st, a B prospect, and a cap dump.
If you're not kidding... Couture >>>> Saad, Pavelski >>>>> Teravainen...
If the Sharks decide to do a full rebuild, this would be the perfect start. The Sharks forward corp of prospects goes from depressing to exciting all in one move. It hurts tremendously short term but it goes a long way towards helping the team contend in about 3 years.
This would also make Chicago scary good imeediately. Boyle would add a good 2-5 percentage points to Chicago's PP right off the bat and in Toews/Pavelski/Bolland you have three of the best defensive centers in the game as a 1-2-3 punch up the middle. Chicago becomes arguably the top Cup contender.
No prospect pool that has Hertel is depressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer
I hope you're kidding. That deal is a good one for Chicago. A #1 defenseman for at least 2 more years and an elite #2C in his prime who's locked up two more years on a phenomenal contract for two prospects, a 1st, a B prospect, and a cap dump.
If you're not kidding... Couture >>>> Saad, Pavelski >>>>> Teravainen...
Of all the teams in the NHL the Sharks have been poised to win the Cup the longest but have always come up short. Maybe this year is their mantra but I think that it is time for them to rebuild. Wilson will need to leave along with Thorton and company. Get a bunch of Grade A+ prospects and start over. That said I would hate to see the Hawks part with TT but Pavelski would be an awesome addition not to mention Boyle.
Nothing in here actually states why it is time for them to rebuild. The Sharks don't need to start over because a lot of their secondary pieces are still young. Just because they have next to no prospect pool doesn't mean that their pro team is old. The only old guy is Boyle and they're already as prepared as they can for his departure with Burns, Braun, and Demers on the right side. Thornton and Marleau are 33 and likely have at least two or three more elite years left in them at a minimum. Everyone else that is a key contributor is younger than that.
All they need to do is pick up a free agent or two along the way and keep their draft picks while occasionally getting more picks by trading back. They don't need to rebuild.
Nothing in here actually states why it is time for them to rebuild. The Sharks don't need to start over because a lot of their secondary pieces are still young. Just because they have next to no prospect pool doesn't mean that their pro team is old. The only old guy is Boyle and they're already as prepared as they can for his departure with Burns, Braun, and Demers on the right side. Thornton and Marleau are 33 and likely have at least two or three more elite years left in them at a minimum. Everyone else that is a key contributor is younger than that.
All they need to do is pick up a free agent or two along the way and keep their draft picks while occasionally getting more picks by trading back. They don't need to rebuild.
I'm only saying that the Sharks have been in a position to win it all for so many years now and have come up empty time after time after time. This lends me to question the core, the chemisty etc of the team. I agree with you that they are not a particularly old team but perhaps it may be time to consider a new culture on the team and for that I would think that Thorton and Marleau have to be two key players to consider trading. A new captain, a new culture and then perhaps a winning team.
