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Brunner Signing

View Poll Results: Was Damien Brunner a good or bad signing?
Good signing 39 92.86%
Bad signing 3 7.14%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:09 AM
  #26
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Whenever the Wings sign Euro free agents (Fabian Brunnstrom, Ilari Filppula, Ville Leino) they all end up in Grand Rapids. So I suspect the same thing happens with Brunner. Nyquist more than adequately replaces Hudler. Pavs gets put on a line with Bert and Mule.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

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09-30-2012, 11:11 AM
  #27
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Wasn't Brunnström signed by Dallas from Europe?

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09-30-2012, 11:35 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Wasn't Brunnström signed by Dallas from Europe?
Initially but then when he did eventually sign with us...he ended up in Grand Rapids.

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09-30-2012, 03:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
He's only had two fifty point seasons and one was four years ago. I'm actually a fan of Hudler, but I don't think the Brunner signing had any effect on Hudler leaving.
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Hudler was going to go regardless, you gotta let that one go.
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Hudler was gone no matter what. Let Hudler go already.
I am perfectly accepting of him being gone. I'm pissed at the circumstances of him leaving; Holland kept an aging third-liner who is a defensive liability and plays well below his size, signed a 26 year-old "maybe" from Switzerland whose contract will EXPIRE at the end of the season (i.e., if the lockout cancels the season, he's never actually a Wing), and a decent second liner who is nearing the end of his career. These moves instead of a first-line caliber winger who is just entering his prime and has solid chemistry with the other top forwards on the team.

Everyone here will be like "why keep Hudler when we have Nyquist/Tatar/Jurco/etc.

My response is this:

Why keep Bertuzzi? Hudler was and is a much better player, and giving Bert's spot to Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar/etc. helps the team more than giving Hudler's spot. Realistically, Bert's spot is given to Tootoo and Homer's spot is given to Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar/etc.

"But who will play Holmstrom's role on the PP?" Dan Cleary is finally healthy again. He can do it. Or even Hudler; he did it at even strength on the FZH line in addition to sniping goals. How do you think he ended up with 23 ES goals? Maybe even switch up the PP and run Dats, Z, Flip, Huds, Franzen, and Nyquist as the forwards. More cycling and puck movement, trying to get an actual good shot. Less "shoot it at Homer/Bert/Cleary/etc. so he can deflect it or bang in the third or fourth rebound" stuff.

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09-30-2012, 03:44 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Initially but then when he did eventually sign with us...he ended up in Grand Rapids.
After he failed to stick with the Marlies.

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09-30-2012, 03:56 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Whenever the Wings sign Euro free agents (Fabian Brunnstrom, Ilari Filppula, Ville Leino) they all end up in Grand Rapids.
iFlip is/was comparable to Emmerton in offensive performance and wasn't as good defensively. Are you suggesting he should have been on the Wings that year when most people say Emmerton doesn't belong on a weaker team now?

Leino ended up there due to a numbers game, both roster and cap hit. He came up for a short stint and did very well (13 GP, 5-4-9). The next season, he played 29 more games but scored only 4-3-7 before being shipped to Philadelphia for Ole-Kristian Tollefson and a 5th round pick (Mattias Backman) in order to clear cap space.

Quote:
So I suspect the same thing happens with Brunner. Nyquist more than adequately replaces Hudler.
Yes, because so many players in the league last year played fewer than 14 minutes and scored 20+ ES goals. I believe the count was three. And a great number of players played fewer than 16 total minutes yet scored 25. Also three. Hudler was the only player in both categories.

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09-30-2012, 04:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Then again, i wouldn't have brought back Bertuzzi, either... So you could pencil in a line of Cleary Helm Tootoo

Nyquist Datsyuk Semin
Filppula Zetterberg Franzen
Cleary Helm Tootoo
Tatar Abdelkader Mursak

Basically, three rookie forwards... would be kind of rough at times... But this is the kind of thing we need to do... Instead...

It's quite likely we have zero rookie forwards except Brunner.
With Sammy and Bertuzzi not there, even with Semin you can keep Hudler and run this:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Semin
Franzen/Zetterberg/Hudler (see: 09 PP second unit)
Cleary/Filppula/Tatar
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Now that's a scary lineup.

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09-30-2012, 04:26 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
With Sammy and Bertuzzi not there, even with Semin you can keep Hudler and run this:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Semin
Franzen/Zetterberg/Hudler (see: 09 PP second unit)
Cleary/Filppula/Tatar
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Now that's a scary lineup.
D would still be bad and/or we would probably have cap issues.

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Old
10-01-2012, 12:58 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Whenever the Wings sign Euro free agents (Fabian Brunnstrom, Ilari Filppula, Ville Leino) they all end up in Grand Rapids. So I suspect the same thing happens with Brunner. Nyquist more than adequately replaces Hudler. Pavs gets put on a line with Bert and Mule.

Lather, rinse, repeat.
If Nyquist does beat out guys in front of him, I would really like to see him with Datsyuk they had pretty decent chemistry in my opinion. In any event I think we need to put Z and Mule together. They look good with Sweden together when it happens, I have no understanding why we never seem to try it.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary/Sammy
Fil - Z - Mule
Bert - Helm -Cleary/Sammy
Miller/Eaves - Abdelkader - Tootoo/Mursak

Think Emmerton is hitting the waiver wire. Chances are they cannot stash Eaves on the IR to start the year. Although this is all pretty moot as I expect Nyquist to start in GR. Still want to see the Fil - Z - Mule line no matter what roster the Wings role out.

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10-01-2012, 09:09 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Why keep Bertuzzi? Hudler was and is a much better player, and giving Bert's spot to Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar/etc. helps the team more than giving Hudler's spot. Realistically, Bert's spot is given to Tootoo and Homer's spot is given to Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar/etc.
We shouldn't have and I haven't seen anyone overly thrilled with him being re-signed.

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Old
10-01-2012, 09:45 AM
  #36
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I am really looking forward to see Brunner in a Red Wings Dress..... BUT.... I saw him many times last season here in Switzerland.... and for me..... he is not made for the high speed and Rough NHL.... Id say after a few hard hits he'll be glad to return to our "weak(er)" leage over here.... but thats just my 5 cents....

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10-01-2012, 10:50 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
If Nyquist does beat out guys in front of him, I would really like to see him with Datsyuk they had pretty decent chemistry in my opinion. In any event I think we need to put Z and Mule together. They look good with Sweden together when it happens, I have no understanding why we never seem to try it.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary/Sammy
Fil - Z - Mule
Bert - Helm -Cleary/Sammy
Miller/Eaves - Abdelkader - Tootoo/Mursak

Think Emmerton is hitting the waiver wire. Chances are they cannot stash Eaves on the IR to start the year. Although this is all pretty moot as I expect Nyquist to start in GR. Still want to see the Fil - Z - Mule line no matter what roster the Wings role out.
Actually last pre-season Nyquist and Mule had good chemistry before Gus was sent back down to GR. I think Gus takes Hudler's place and makes that line look even better. Pavs will once again be paired with Mule - best passer with best shooter - and then the third forward will probably be a rotation of Bert, Sammy and Cleary.

So that's why I said lather, rinse, repeat. If there's a season maybe Holland can finagle a trade to get Pavs a really solid forward to play alongside him and Mule.

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10-01-2012, 11:02 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
If Nyquist does beat out guys in front of him, I would really like to see him with Datsyuk they had pretty decent chemistry in my opinion. In any event I think we need to put Z and Mule together. They look good with Sweden together when it happens, I have no understanding why we never seem to try it.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary/Sammy
Fil - Z - Mule
Bert - Helm -Cleary/Sammy
Miller/Eaves - Abdelkader - Tootoo/Mursak

Think Emmerton is hitting the waiver wire. Chances are they cannot stash Eaves on the IR to start the year. Although this is all pretty moot as I expect Nyquist to start in GR. Still want to see the Fil - Z - Mule line no matter what roster the Wings role out.
2nd line is way too stacked. Having those 3 on 1 line will probably give you a situation like last year where the 2nd line produces, and that's it. I think a Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen line would be a really good first line. Then Fil-Z-Sammy works as a second line well, keeping Fil and Z's chemistry going from last year, with a righty winger who likes to shoot joining the mix.

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10-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
2nd line is way too stacked. Having those 3 on 1 line will probably give you a situation like last year where the 2nd line produces, and that's it. I think a Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen line would be a really good first line. Then Fil-Z-Sammy works as a second line well, keeping Fil and Z's chemistry going from last year, with a righty winger who likes to shoot joining the mix.
On the chance that Nyquist and Brunner both make the team,
this is how I see it going

Flip Datsyuk Brunner
Nyquist Zetterberg Franzen
Bertuzzi Helm Sammy
Cleary Abdelkader Tootoo


If Only Brunner makes it

Flip Datsyuk Brunner
Franzen Zetterberg Sammy
Bertuzzi helm Tootoo
Miller Abdelkader Cleary

If only Nyquist makes it

Flip Datsyuk Bertuzzi
Nyquist Zetterberg Franzen
Cleary Helm Sammy
Miller Abdelkader Tootooo

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10-01-2012, 01:29 PM
  #40
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CB: what if Eaves is healthy?

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10-01-2012, 01:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
D would still be bad and/or we would probably have cap issues.
So deal Franzen for a defenseman, play Brunner on Dats' wing and Nyquist across from Hudler. Huds and Semin in the goal-scoring roles more than make up for the lack of Franzen. Furthermore, Bert would be on the first line due to Dats' preference and comfort level (a la Holmstrom), Cleary and Sammy would be the third-line flanks. Dealing Franzen puts Sammy (probably) on Z's right side. If Cleary returns to form, we probably see him in the spot I've slated as "Bert was signed for 2 years, about $2m per to be Dats' new 'I like this guy' winger."

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
If Nyquist does beat out guys in front of him, I would really like to see him with Datsyuk they had pretty decent chemistry in my opinion. In any event I think we need to put Z and Mule together. They look good with Sweden together when it happens, I have no understanding why we never seem to try it.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary/Sammy
Fil - Z - Mule
Bert - Helm -Cleary/Sammy
Miller/Eaves - Abdelkader - Tootoo/Mursak

Think Emmerton is hitting the waiver wire. Chances are they cannot stash Eaves on the IR to start the year. Although this is all pretty moot as I expect Nyquist to start in GR. Still want to see the Fil - Z - Mule line no matter what roster the Wings role out.
Bert is playing with Datsyuk. That's pretty much the end of it. Datsyuk likes playing with him, and he's useless in the bottom six. So despite being the worst forward who will be regularly dressed, Bert will play on the #1 line and get PP minutes. Sickening, really.

I think Eaves and possibly Miller also (but more likely Mursak) are traded. Excess bottom-six forwards are useful anywhere. Eaves is a third-liner who has a good shot, and Mursak still has decent potential. with Tootoo in town, Sheahan and Andersson ready or almost ready to jump... Eaves is being pushed out - probably first to go because of his deal.

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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
We shouldn't have and I haven't seen anyone overly thrilled with him being re-signed.
Correct. Not only does it potentially harm prospect development, keeps a forward with very limited use and low talent level at a not insignificant cap hit, enough to prevent the Wings from re-signing Hudler or acquiring a comparable UFA forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
2nd line is way too stacked.
Not any more stacked than last year. Arguably less, as I personally feel Hudler outplayed Franzen given Hudler's significant PP point time. Also the fact that many expect Flip to regress offensively, and Franzen is likely to decline offensively from here on out.

Quote:
Having those 3 on 1 line will probably give you a situation like last year where the 2nd line produces, and that's it. I think a Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen line would be a really good first line.
Franzen has produced much better in the past with Z than with Datsyuk. So either he's already declined considerably and Datsyuk is propping him up, or playing with Dats is a bad fit and he belongs with Z.

Quote:
Then Fil-Z-Sammy works as a second line well, keeping Fil and Z's chemistry going from last year, with a righty winger who likes to shoot joining the mix.
I take it then that you won't be having Nyquist on the team? Or Brunner? I doubt either plays NHL if they aren't in the top six. Especially given that they wouldn't make better bottom-sixers than what we have. The only reasonable exceptions where they are on the team but outside the top six are if the third line is Cleary/Nyquist/Brunner, Brunner/Nyquist/Samuelsson, or even possibly Nyquist/Filppula/Brunner. But that's it. Putting Nyquist and/or Brunner with Helm on the third line is absolutely silly. Helm is a solid C, but he doesn't belong on a line that's clearly intended as a scoring line. At least not on the Wings as they are right now. That would leave the Wings with Abdelkader centering Tootoo and probably Bert (possibly Sammy).

And those 3rd and 4th lines are just nucking futs. Sign a guy to replace your departing top-six forward... and stick him on the fourth line in a checking role. Alternatively, extend a veteran whose only purpose is to provide size and net presence to the team's star center (the only time he ever looks like something other than dog poop) and put him on a checking line even though he's not terribly physical and is defensively a liability.

Line failures FTW!


Last edited by pdd: 10-01-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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Old
10-01-2012, 02:08 PM
  #42
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Too early to tell, but there are a lot of factors that make this potentially a great signing.

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10-01-2012, 02:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I take it then that you won't be having Nyquist on the team? Or Brunner? I doubt either plays NHL if they aren't in the top six. Especially given that they wouldn't make better bottom-sixers than what we have. The only reasonable exceptions where they are on the team but outside the top six are if the third line is Cleary/Nyquist/Brunner, Brunner/Nyquist/Samuelsson, or even possibly Nyquist/Filppula/Brunner. But that's it. Putting Nyquist and/or Brunner with Helm on the third line is absolutely silly. Helm is a solid C, but he doesn't belong on a line that's clearly intended as a scoring line. At least not on the Wings as they are right now. That would leave the Wings with Abdelkader centering Tootoo and probably Bert (possibly Sammy).

And those 3rd and 4th lines are just nucking futs. Sign a guy to replace your departing top-six forward... and stick him on the fourth line in a checking role. Alternatively, extend a veteran whose only purpose is to provide size and net presence to the team's star center (the only time he ever looks like something other than dog poop) and put him on a checking line even though he's not terribly physical and is defensively a liability.

Line failures FTW!
-Nyquist was on my first line with Datsyuk and Franzen.
-Who would be better centering the 3rd line than Helm, that would also balance the rest of the lines well?
-I never posted 3rd and 4th lines in my post that you quoted.

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10-01-2012, 03:16 PM
  #44
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Let the DRW test the guy before we judge.

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10-01-2012, 09:02 PM
  #45
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Putting Filppula - Franzen - Zetterberg on one line might seem like a big risk. I am all for putting Filppula with Datsyuk as they have had good chemistry. The point was Franzen in my opinion is much better with Z than Datsyuk. That needs to happen this year. I just think a lot of people would be surprised if the decision is made to take Fil off the Z line. Franzen has to do this with the understanding like when he is with Sweden he needs to be more of a net front presence. I just think the line works and if Nyquist or Brunner are ready the top six is still dangerous with Datsyuk and whatever player earns the right to play on his wings.

The reason I think giving Z those two is interesting is it really makes the other team play them as the first line. In fact they really are as long as you understand Datsyuk is still a number one center. You would be forced to play your big defensive line but which defensive pairing? Pavel can play against a top scoring line or they will be forced to make a tough choice on who to put out. Do you really want to play Datsyuk without your top pairing? If you do as I expect most would, then you expose your second pairing to the three next best forwards on the team. If you don't Datsyuk who can create magic on his own would see the worst defensive pairings he has seen in years and I think he abuses them. I just see it as a tough matchup, either way you make a tough choice on which forward unit and d unit plays. Something the Wings won't be as concerned with and I see that as a huge advantage.

Understand the risk, but I would like to see it tried. The two and two split isn't commanding the same kind of headaches, especially since Franzen and Datsyuk seem to be only so so at 5 on 5.

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10-01-2012, 09:18 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Correct. Not only does it potentially harm prospect development, keeps a forward with very limited use and low talent level at a not insignificant cap hit, enough to prevent the Wings from re-signing Hudler or acquiring a comparable UFA forward.
It didn't prevent the Wings from going after UFA forwards, though. They made the right decision in letting Hudler walk. I think they also made the right decision in revamping the right side of their forward group. Where they went wrong was thinking they needed Bertuzzi, and that's it.

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10-01-2012, 09:25 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
It didn't prevent the Wings from going after UFA forwards, though. They made the right decision in letting Hudler walk. I think they also made the right decision in revamping the right side of their forward group. Where they went wrong was thinking they needed Bertuzzi, and that's it.
We talk an awful lot about getting Datsyuk that winger we think will make him happy. He seems to think it is Bertuzzi from a lot of interviews. I would hope Bert plays down the lineup more, but that might be a big part of this signing. Also and I know he is still an awful guy to a lot of hockey fans because of the Moore thing, but he is an extremely popular part of the dressing room. Like a lot of people I don't like the signing. But he brings a couple points a season in the shootout and can play up and down the lineup with a lot of size and good hands when he isn't one handed stick handling.

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10-01-2012, 09:45 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
We talk an awful lot about getting Datsyuk that winger we think will make him happy. He seems to think it is Bertuzzi from a lot of interviews. I would hope Bert plays down the lineup more, but that might be a big part of this signing. Also and I know he is still an awful guy to a lot of hockey fans because of the Moore thing, but he is an extremely popular part of the dressing room. Like a lot of people I don't like the signing. But he brings a couple points a season in the shootout and can play up and down the lineup with a lot of size and good hands when he isn't one handed stick handling.
I think Bert was re-signed because he's 6'3'' and 240 lbs. Size isn't something we have a lot of, and it's not something we were likely to get much of over the summer. At the same time, the guy's not a top6 level player - at least not a permanent one. I get the positives for re-signing him, but with re-working the right side, and not moving anyone out in a trade, the Bert signing is just too much.

We essentially locked the lineup down and are unlikely to provide space for someone to be promoted. After the year that Nyquist had, the progress Tatar made, and signing Brunner...I think Bert's just a short sighted move. Maybe the Wings would surprise me and move someone like Miller or Eaves to make room for a kid, but I bet everyone who could clear waivers would be sent to GR, and Mursak and Emmerton would be kept as the 13/14 forwards with Holland talking about maintaining great organizational depth.

One of the bright spots of a lockout might be a deeper AHL this year where Nyquist and Tatar will be given a stiffer challenge, since that's where they likely would have ended up anyway.

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10-01-2012, 10:32 PM
  #49
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CB: what if Eaves is healthy?
I know... I know... If Eaves is healthy, Detroit I think is going to be forced to cut either Miller or Eaves, or trade a forward. I don't think Detroit goes into the seasons without at least one of Brunner or Nyquist in the lineup

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10-01-2012, 10:41 PM
  #50
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I think Bert was re-signed because he's 6'3'' and 240 lbs. Size isn't something we have a lot of, and it's not something we were likely to get much of over the summer. At the same time, the guy's not a top6 level player - at least not a permanent one. I get the positives for re-signing him, but with re-working the right side, and not moving anyone out in a trade, the Bert signing is just too much.

We essentially locked the lineup down and are unlikely to provide space for someone to be promoted. After the year that Nyquist had, the progress Tatar made, and signing Brunner...I think Bert's just a short sighted move. Maybe the Wings would surprise me and move someone like Miller or Eaves to make room for a kid, but I bet everyone who could clear waivers would be sent to GR, and Mursak and Emmerton would be kept as the 13/14 forwards with Holland talking about maintaining great organizational depth.

One of the bright spots of a lockout might be a deeper AHL this year where Nyquist and Tatar will be given a stiffer challenge, since that's where they likely would have ended up anyway.
Bert was signed knowing those two guys were having good AHL years and improving. Brunner was signed knowing all of this as well. Now maybe the Wings really thought Eaves was finished. But I think the signing points towards doom for someone else and that has been planned all along. We like to look at Bert's signing as overloading the roster, but the move really just locked him into the picture and pushed someone else out of favor. You can argue it is wrong, but until I see who is tossed out I am not going to get really worked up over it. I understand what he brings when I am not yelling at him to bring more of it more often. Sorry it is just hard for me to argue the value of keeping all of or a couple of Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, Mursak over Bert. Sure keep a couple of those four, but they really should be where we are trimming the fat in my opinion. They are all just a little too similar, Bert is more unique even if declining.

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