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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part III (First 2 weeks of season cancelled)

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Old
09-30-2012, 09:58 AM
  #251
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They won't get serious about making a deal until they have to.
Yup. If we're lucky.

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09-30-2012, 10:03 AM
  #252
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The Krys Barch thing is nice.

However, no. Sorry.

Dude, cry to me when you work 40+ hour weeks and don't get paid, at all, and have two kids and need to find a way to make ends meet.

Cry to the soldiers who come back from Iraq and Afganistan and get screwed. I know several of them.

This guy can't seriously begin to compare real world issues with his own. His minimum wage is FAR more than anything most of us will ever sniff in years and years and years of working/slaving.

And Brandon Prust chiming in with "Amen brother"? ****ing really Brandon? What contract did you just sign with Montreal?

"Some of us will have to work for the next 50 years"...welcome to the real world. Oh boo hoo you got to play a child's game for a living to the last several years. When you had no business doing so in the first place because you SUCK at hockey Barch. If you got what you want and smaller leagues you would never have played NHL hockey to begin with. No Euro team wants you because you're a talentless goon.

And please, don't patronize the fans. WE are the REAL ones paying all your salaries. Who is looking out for us? Where the **** is our union?

"As i sit here drinking by my fireplace"...really. Instead of crying about what you don't have, go work. And take a gander at what its like to really not have. Go on downtown and help a homless family eat for the night.
Agreed. Barch's salary the past 4 years has been 575k, 575k, 825k, 825k. Add in his salary from the year before that, and the money he is owed the next 2 seasons, that is approximately 5 million dollars.

So in 7 NHL seasons he has made/will make more than the average American family will make in their ENTIRE LIVES.

I'm sure he can't afford a mansion and 5 cars, but he can at the very least own a very nice home with no mortgage and a couple of vehicles with no loans on them. Most people in this country DO NOT have the luxury. Cry me a ****ing river.

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:11 AM
  #253
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Agreed. Barch's salary the past 4 years has been 575k, 575k, 825k, 825k. Add in his salary from the year before that, and the money he is owed the next 2 seasons, that is approximately 5 million dollars.

So in 7 NHL seasons he has made/will make more than the average American family will make in their ENTIRE LIVES.

I'm sure he can't afford a mansion and 5 cars, but he can at the very least own a very nice home with no mortgage and a couple of vehicles with no loans on them. Most people in this country DO NOT have the luxury. Cry me a ****ing river.
And Send his 3 kids to college.

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:11 AM
  #254
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#CBA Nothing finalized, but sounds like two sides will likely meet tmrw as well. Should know more by this afternoon
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...25298967150592

Tomorrow they will be discussing HRR

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Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announce later today
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...25849507311617

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:13 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
Joffrey Lupol's take:

http://www.askmen.com/sports/fanatic/nhl-lockout-2012.html


I think most of it is pretty "woe is me", but he does stress a good point that RangerBoy has before. Why is it the players' duty to help money-losing teams? .
Quite simply, the other option is contracting, which would mean fewer NHL jobs. Are the players willing to sacrifice to keep the the current # of NHL jobs? That remains to be seen.

Funny how that becomes almost a non-issue once a guy has established himself as an above-average NHL'er.

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:22 AM
  #256
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Agreed. Barch's salary the past 4 years has been 575k, 575k, 825k, 825k. Add in his salary from the year before that, and the money he is owed the next 2 seasons, that is approximately 5 million dollars.

So in 7 NHL seasons he has made/will make more than the average American family will make in their ENTIRE LIVES.

I'm sure he can't afford a mansion and 5 cars, but he can at the very least own a very nice home with no mortgage and a couple of vehicles with no loans on them. Most people in this country DO NOT have the luxury. Cry me a ****ing river.
Its a standard of living issue. These guys couldnt care less about normal folks breaking their backs for 40+ hours a week, as long as they keep spending their money on tickets and merchandise. Thats why the fictional "bond" between players and fans makes me laugh.

Its a non-issue. You think these guys are going to sit around a table and the perils of the average Joe is going to move the needle at all? HA!

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:46 AM
  #257
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Good, that's where the real issue is.

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:48 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Quite simply, the other option is contracting, which would mean fewer NHL jobs.
One more option is to move teams where they can be successful. Phoenix is a mess, if they were in Quebec would they still be losing money?

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09-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #259
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One more option is to move teams where they can be successful. Phoenix is a mess, if they were in Quebec would they still be losing money?
They might.

I have no faith that any city that has already lost a team in relatively recent history, could sustain a new team long term.

There are simply too many teams, too many players (like Barch and Prust) who have zero business being NHL players. The talent pool is dilluted. Theres not enough interest in the sport or the league to successfully sustain this many major pro hockey teams.

Rob Simpson(?) was on NHL radio a few days ago talking about this.

The NHL and NHLPA can do this dance as long as they want, every few years, and the same issues will continue to rear their heads. The league is too large. There are not enough real hockey players to fill so many teams. Contracts get inflated because hacks like Barch have to get paid.

Contraction is the ONLY solution that will FIX the league's core issues. Plain and simple. But they won't ever do it because it'll mean some rich ******* is losing some more pocket change.

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Old
09-30-2012, 11:21 AM
  #260
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http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-lo...n-the-lockout/

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09-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The Krys Barch thing is nice.

However, no. Sorry.

Dude, cry to me when you work 40+ hour weeks and don't get paid, at all, and have two kids and need to find a way to make ends meet.

Cry to the soldiers who come back from Iraq and Afganistan and get screwed. I know several of them.

This guy can't seriously begin to compare real world issues with his own. His minimum wage is FAR more than anything most of us will ever sniff in years and years and years of working/slaving.

And Brandon Prust chiming in with "Amen brother"? ****ing really Brandon? What contract did you just sign with Montreal?

"Some of us will have to work for the next 50 years"...welcome to the real world. Oh boo hoo you got to play a child's game for a living to the last several years. When you had no business doing so in the first place because you SUCK at hockey Barch. If you got what you want and smaller leagues you would never have played NHL hockey to begin with. No Euro team wants you because you're a talentless goon.

And please, don't patronize the fans. WE are the REAL ones paying all your salaries. Who is looking out for us? Where the **** is our union?

"As i sit here drinking by my fireplace"...really. Instead of crying about what you don't have, go work. And take a gander at what its like to really not have. Go on downtown and help a homless family eat for the night.
Amen, brother! But seriously

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Old
09-30-2012, 01:27 PM
  #262
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Barch may have been hitting that bottle a lot sooner than he writes--frankly what he wrote was embarrassingly bad. He doesn't know squat about people who work for a living--he's never had to do it--neither however have the owners--or at least in general. Both players and owners/managerial staffs = privileged. Watching in my hometown right now as Sikorsky permanently lays off 570 people--those people have homes, mortgages and kids too. New Year's day and they're done. When I started as a clerk in the USPS back in 1986--we had around 140 clerks at our plant--now we're down to 15. The 50 or so mail handlers we had have pretty much ceased to exist. How any of these people can compare their world to ours is beyond me. It only shows how out of touch the haves are from those who have less or have not.

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Old
09-30-2012, 01:42 PM
  #263
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Barch may have been hitting that bottle a lot sooner than he writes--frankly what he wrote was embarrassingly bad. He doesn't know squat about people who work for a living--he's never had to do it--neither however have the owners--or at least in general. Both players and owners/managerial staffs = privileged. Watching in my hometown right now as Sikorsky permanently lays off 570 people--those people have homes, mortgages and kids too. New Year's day and they're done. When I started as a clerk in the USPS back in 1986--we had around 140 clerks at our plant--now we're down to 15. The 50 or so mail handlers we had have pretty much ceased to exist. How any of these people can compare their world to ours is beyond me. It only shows how out of touch the haves are from those who have less or have not.
I totally agree. The fact that he thinks having to work for most of your life is some kind of punishment illustrates just how detached he is from the rest of society. Everyone has to work for most of their life and the rest of us don't get the privilege of making nearly a million dollars a year through our 20s and 30s. I have no sympathy for the "woe is me" talk coming from the players. They didn't start negotiating until the last second, which will cause them to miss paychecks, and they're simultaneously complaining about not being able to afford a rollback. If money were such an issue they probably should have at least tried to work something out last year or over the summer or, really at any point.

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Old
09-30-2012, 03:34 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Quite simply, the other option is contracting, which would mean fewer NHL jobs. Are the players willing to sacrifice to keep the the current # of NHL jobs? That remains to be seen.

Funny how that becomes almost a non-issue once a guy has established himself as an above-average NHL'er.
well lupol says if they insist on putting teams in the south, its the league's obligation to support. namely through revenue sharing.

and just to grasp just how much the league isn't interested in real fixes... i give it two seasons before we see expansion. look at the realignment, it's already laid out. 32 teams. sell it as a balanced league, tapping into strong northern markets or spreading the game but it all comes down to franchise fees. and, rangerboy correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't franchise fees exempt from splitting with the union?

we can blame the players for not contracting but not only will the owners never pay to buyout a franchise, they'll expand in a heartbeat.

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Old
09-30-2012, 03:40 PM
  #265
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And Send his 3 kids to college.
Do Canadians have to pay college tuition?

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Old
09-30-2012, 04:16 PM
  #266
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Do Canadians have to pay college tuition?
Relatively speaking, much less.

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Old
09-30-2012, 04:54 PM
  #267
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"@aaronward_nhl: After todays meeting and according to source, NHLPA waiting on League to indicate when they are willing to convene again. #TSN"

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Old
09-30-2012, 05:42 PM
  #268
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Haven't really been keeping up much with lockout news, but that Krys Barch thing is disgusting.

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Old
09-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #269
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"@aaronward_nhl: After todays meeting and according to source, NHLPA waiting on League to indicate when they are willing to convene again. #TSN"
Haha, this is going in circles.

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Old
09-30-2012, 07:05 PM
  #270
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Haha, this is going in circles.
Doesn't the NHL want a new proposal from the PA before having another full HRR negotiation?

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Old
09-30-2012, 08:12 PM
  #271
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It's like they are afraid to ask each other out.

"Do you think of anyone in class as more than a business friend? Would you be willing to negotiate with them, you know, if they asked? Does their name rhyme with enachell dee aye?

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Old
09-30-2012, 08:18 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
They might.

I have no faith that any city that has already lost a team in relatively recent history, could sustain a new team long term.

There are simply too many teams, too many players (like Barch and Prust) who have zero business being NHL players. The talent pool is dilluted. Theres not enough interest in the sport or the league to successfully sustain this many major pro hockey teams.

Rob Simpson(?) was on NHL radio a few days ago talking about this.

The NHL and NHLPA can do this dance as long as they want, every few years, and the same issues will continue to rear their heads. The league is too large. There are not enough real hockey players to fill so many teams. Contracts get inflated because hacks like Barch have to get paid.

Contraction is the ONLY solution that will FIX the league's core issues. Plain and simple. But they won't ever do it because it'll mean some rich ******* is losing some more pocket change.
Are you serious with that statement? Almost every single player in the NHL is REALLY DAMN GOOD at hockey otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. Just because the league isn't full of Kovalchuks and Gaboriks doesn't mean that every single player is an extremely talented athlete. Go and watch these third and fourth line players practice on their own or with trainers and you'll see that while they might be considered average or below average when compared to the superstars, they are still better than any other players in the minor leagues in North America and Europe.

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Old
09-30-2012, 08:40 PM
  #273
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Are you serious with that statement? Almost every single player in the NHL is REALLY DAMN GOOD at hockey otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. Just because the league isn't full of Kovalchuks and Gaboriks doesn't mean that every single player is an extremely talented athlete. Go and watch these third and fourth line players practice on their own or with trainers and you'll see that while they might be considered average or below average when compared to the superstars, they are still better than any other players in the minor leagues in North America and Europe.
Sorry but thats not true.

Because some players haven't reached the NHL yet or have no interest in the league means that every player in the NHL is better?

Colton ****ing Orr played in the league. There is no argument to be made that proves he has an business playing in the NHL otherthan he can punch a face real hard.

If the league were cut back down to 26-28 teams thats about 46 players cut. I'm sure a list of 46 players can be made of players like Orr who have zero business skating in the NHL.

The PA knows it. Thats why Barch is drunk and whining on twitter.

There are a lot of people with positions of importance or whose opinions are respected that have been saying the same things on NHL radio.

The core issue is the size of the league and the location of some of those teams.

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Old
09-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #274
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It's like they are afraid to ask each other out.

"Do you think of anyone in class as more than a business friend? Would you be willing to negotiate with them, you know, if they asked? Does their name rhyme with enachell dee aye?

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Old
10-01-2012, 02:29 AM
  #275
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Good, that's where the real issue is.
indeed. once they agree on what's on the table, then it's a lot easier to divide it up.

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