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Top 6 Center to Anaheim

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Old
09-30-2012, 07:01 PM
  #51
ShadowDuck
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Sbisa could definitely fetch more then Bolland.

I doubt the Devils trade Zajac, they're almost as weak as the Ducks at center.

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09-30-2012, 07:20 PM
  #52
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This thread screams Thomas Plekanec. Not sure what would be fair value though..

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09-30-2012, 07:26 PM
  #53
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Any interest in Gagner?

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09-30-2012, 07:58 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Any interest in Gagner?
If he shows a little more consistency. And even then it's not a great fit. Murray has stressed the need to add size to the forward line up and Gagner doesn't exactly fit that mold.

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09-30-2012, 08:06 PM
  #55
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Yeah I don't have any interest in Gagner at all. If we're going to acquire a 2C, I'd hope we could do a lot better than Gagner.

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09-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
If he shows a little more consistency. And even then it's not a great fit. Murray has stressed the need to add size to the forward line up and Gagner doesn't exactly fit that mold.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Yeah I don't have any interest in Gagner at all. If we're going to acquire a 2C, I'd hope we could do a lot better than Gagner.
What are you willing to give up for the type of player that you are looking for?

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09-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
This thread screams Thomas Plekanec. Not sure what would be fair value though..
I remember pre-Draft, there was a few proposals on HF talking about the 6th going to Montreal straight-up for Plekanec. Obviously we can't do that now, but Pleks was/is a guy I would consider, although I would like a bit more offense in that 2C.

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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Any interest in Gagner?
I'm sure there have been quite a few conversations between Tambo and Murray re: Gagner. I mean, Sutton, Foster, Cogliano, O'Marra, etc. There's a rapport there. The most I would give up for Gagner probably wouldn't meet the Oilers expectations at all though (Lydman, Welinski, 2nd).

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09-30-2012, 08:16 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I'm sure there have been quite a few conversations between Tambo and Murray re: Gagner. I mean, Sutton, Foster, Cogliano, O'Marra, etc. There's a rapport there. The most I would give up for Gagner probably wouldn't meet the Oilers expectations at all though (Lydman, Welinski, 2nd).
I don't know much about Welinski, but he sounds like an intriguing prospect. We own your 2nd for this next draft so I assume that you'd be giving up your 2014 2nd or would it be the Islanders 2nd?

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09-30-2012, 08:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I don't know much about Welinski, but he sounds like an intriguing prospect. We own your 2nd for this next draft so I assume that you'd be giving up your 2014 2nd or would it be the Islanders 2nd?
Yeah, either 2nd. I mean, with the Islanders 2nd, you guys basically have Visnovsky and Lydman (bad Ducks joke).

Welinski is probably the best Ducks prospect outside of the 'untouchables' (Etem, Palmieri, DSP, Rakell, Gibson, Kerdiles, Karlsson). He won the USHL Defenseman of the Year award last year with the Green Bay Gamblers, and he has size at 6'2". He's playing this year just south of the border at Minnesota-Duluth. HF said he has the hardest shot of any Ducks defensive prospect. He was a 3rd round pick of ours in 2011.

And Lydman is just a holdover (his contract expires at the end of the 2012-2013 season). From the past few Oil defenseman threads I've read, it said you guys needed a stay-at-home, reliable, PK-type defenseman. He's just one year removed from being the Ducks most reliable blueliner, but a shoulder injury hampered his play this past year, and the defensive corps is getting full with the Souray and Allen signings. He's also needed for balancing the salaries.

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09-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I remember pre-Draft, there was a few proposals on HF talking about the 6th going to Montreal straight-up for Plekanec. Obviously we can't do that now, but Pleks was/is a guy I would consider, although I would like a bit more offense in that 2C.



I'm sure there have been quite a few conversations between Tambo and Murray re: Gagner. I mean, Sutton, Foster, Cogliano, O'Marra, etc. There's a rapport there. The most I would give up for Gagner probably wouldn't meet the Oilers expectations at all though (Lydman, Welinski, 2nd).
Better be a package and not individual pieces cause as much as Gagner doesn't fit, Welinski for him straight up is low ball.

Also you forgot Vatanen and Lindholm.

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09-30-2012, 08:31 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Better be a package and not individual pieces cause as much as Gagner doesn't fit, Welinski for him straight up is low ball.

Also you forgot Vatanen and Lindholm.
Yeah, I meant all three. My bad if that didn't come off clearly.

And crap, yes I did; didn't mean to!

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09-30-2012, 08:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
Sbisa could definitely fetch more then Bolland.

I doubt the Devils trade Zajac, they're almost as weak as the Ducks at center.
If they trade Zajac, it would be a move just to replenish their forward prospects because he is on his way out.

After Zajac, it would seem like our centers would be Henrique-Josefson-Carter-Gionta, but in actuality, Zubrus and Elias can both play center if needed.

That would only be if the Devils are out of the picture, and they would likely ask for a center prospect in return. I just mainly said it to see what Anaheim would be willing to give, because he is pretty much your prototypical 2C.

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09-30-2012, 08:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I agree that it will be Rakell.



Couldn't you say that that argument is the same as the one that was made for Jake Gardiner? I think sometimes you can't rely solely on prospects. There needs to be some top-six support for that first-line, so that they're not overused game-after-game.

I also believe that for risk of burdening a prospect too early in his career, you need to have sort of a stop-gap or filler type of center. That's what the organization seems to be doing on defense with Allen and Souray, so that they don't need to rush Vatanen and Lindholm like they did Fowler and Sbisa. If you put Rakell or Holland in too early, not only are you burdening them with too many minutes, you're also hurting the team's chances at winning. Zajac isn't a stop-gap, he's a solution, but I think you understand my point.

As well, the organization should be catering to Bobby Ryan, considering how awry this whole trade fiasco went. By trading for a 2C that can effectively play with him, I think you can fix that problem, while also fixing the perennial 2C problem that the Ducks have year-in and year-out. It also tells Getzlaf and Perry that the Ducks will do what they need to do to win (and not just always get guys like Foster, Cogliano, etc.). It might not always seem sensible trading a top prospect, but there are myriad benefits if that's the road the Ducks choose to take.
I like how you're using a terrible trade to justify your own terrible trade. The Gardiner trade blew up in our faces. We got something out of it, sure, but rehashing it isn't what we should be aiming for.


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Old
09-30-2012, 08:52 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I like how you're using a terrible trade to justify your own terrible trade. The Gardiner trade blew up in our faces. We got something out of it, sure, but rehashing it isn't what we should be aiming for.
It was a terrible trade, but there's logic behind everything. If you think my trade offer was terrible, then that's fine too. I have no qualms about that.

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09-30-2012, 09:00 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
It was a terrible trade, but there's logic behind everything. If you think my trade offer was terrible, then that's fine too. I have no qualms about that.
Tell me what the common thread is, then, because I'm not seeing it. With Beauchemin we were getting a defenseman the likes of which we didn't have in our system. Now, you're shipping off Palmieri, a move that we have every reason to think will be even more regrettable than giving up Gardiner, for a second-line center, the likes of which we DO have coming up. Worst of all, we are moving our most NHL-ready winger potentially on the eve of Perry's exit, while also being the only prospect that matches what we'd be losing.

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09-30-2012, 09:04 PM
  #66
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I think it's safe to say that there's a lack of centers available across the league. As a Leafs fan I know this all too well. You really have to draft one otherwise, you'll have to overpay bigtime. Or, find a guy who's undervalued, similar to how many baseball GM's operate. A guy like Ribeiro would have been perfect for the Ducks or Leafs or whomever.

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09-30-2012, 09:04 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Tell me what the common thread is, then, because I'm not seeing it. With Beauchemin we were getting a defenseman the likes of which we didn't have in our system. Now, you're shipping off Palmieri, a move that we have every reason to think will be even more regrettable than giving up Gardiner, for a second-line center, the likes of which we DO have coming up. Worst of all, we are moving our most NHL-ready winger potentially on the eve of Perry's exit, while also being the only prospect that matches what we'd be losing.
He has already said he doesn't see what everyone else sees in Palmieri. His own opinion is that Palmieri isn't what everyone else thinks of him, and that's his opinion. If anything, just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

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09-30-2012, 09:26 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Tell me what the common thread is, then, because I'm not seeing it. With Beauchemin we were getting a defenseman the likes of which we didn't have in our system. Now, you're shipping off Palmieri, a move that we have every reason to think will be even more regrettable than giving up Gardiner, for a second-line center, the likes of which we DO have coming up. Worst of all, we are moving our most NHL-ready winger potentially on the eve of Perry's exit, while also being the only prospect that matches what we'd be losing.
The correlation between the two trades (Gardiner/Beauch and my Palmieri/Zajac one) is simply the NHL experience trade-off. I know that doesn't sound intriguing or anything, but you're trading away someone who hasn't shown a vast aptitude towards the NHL game for someone who has, and has had success at it. I think there's a net gain, because you also deliver Bobby Ryan his center, and open up a spot for Etem. And even then, it doesn't have to be Zajac, it could be any other center, but I know where you're coming from when you're hesitant to give up a top prospect for something that could be had with time (a bonafide 2C).

And I don't really see many similarities between Perry and Palmieri. They're both good on the puck, and both of their skating could use some work, but Perry doesn't back-off when he's met with resistance; he didn't pout when he used to get sent back to the AHL; and he (obviously) has much greater size than Palms. I personally don't see them as that similar, which actually speaks to Zippy316's point where he said I don't view Palmieri the same as the rest of the Ducks fans, which is true.

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09-30-2012, 09:56 PM
  #69
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Maybe a bit out of this world but, would It be possible for you to give up holland+something else for a young center ? A la Gagner ?

Someone like Brassard may fit this ?

Holland+???
for
Brassard

I know it sucks ... but.. Brassard still youngish..

What about Peverley?

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09-30-2012, 09:58 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
Yeah, either 2nd. I mean, with the Islanders 2nd, you guys basically have Visnovsky and Lydman (bad Ducks joke).

Welinski is probably the best Ducks prospect outside of the 'untouchables' (Etem, Palmieri, DSP, Rakell, Gibson, Kerdiles, Karlsson). He won the USHL Defenseman of the Year award last year with the Green Bay Gamblers, and he has size at 6'2". He's playing this year just south of the border at Minnesota-Duluth. HF said he has the hardest shot of any Ducks defensive prospect. He was a 3rd round pick of ours in 2011.

And Lydman is just a holdover (his contract expires at the end of the 2012-2013 season). From the past few Oil defenseman threads I've read, it said you guys needed a stay-at-home, reliable, PK-type defenseman. He's just one year removed from being the Ducks most reliable blueliner, but a shoulder injury hampered his play this past year, and the defensive corps is getting full with the Souray and Allen signings. He's also needed for balancing the salaries.
It's something that I'd consider if we were planning on moving Hall to C. Hockeydb said that Welinski was 6'0" so him being 6'2" is an added +. However he'd need to bring something to the table that Petry, Schultz, Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, and Teubert doesn't. It seems like he has some offensive pop to his game if he's a LH shot he could be an ideal replacement for Ryan Whitney in 3-4 years time. What's his skating and defensive awareness like?

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09-30-2012, 09:59 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
The correlation between the two trades (Gardiner/Beauch and my Palmieri/Zajac one) is simply the NHL experience trade-off. I know that doesn't sound intriguing or anything, but you're trading away someone who hasn't shown a vast aptitude towards the NHL game for someone who has, and has had success at it. I think there's a net gain, because you also deliver Bobby Ryan his center, and open up a spot for Etem. And even then, it doesn't have to be Zajac, it could be any other center, but I know where you're coming from when you're hesitant to give up a top prospect for something that could be had with time (a bonafide 2C).

And I don't really see many similarities between Perry and Palmieri. They're both good on the puck, and both of their skating could use some work, but Perry doesn't back-off when he's met with resistance; he didn't pout when he used to get sent back to the AHL; and he (obviously) has much greater size than Palms. I personally don't see them as that similar, which actually speaks to Zippy316's point where he said I don't view Palmieri the same as the rest of the Ducks fans, which is true.

When did Palmieri pout after getting sent back to the AHL?

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09-30-2012, 10:01 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Maybe a bit out of this world but, would It be possible for you to give up holland+something else for a young center ? A la Gagner ?

Someone like Brassard may fit this ?

Holland+???
for
Brassard

I know it sucks ... but.. Brassard still youngish..

What about Peverley?
I see where you're coming from, but trading Holland+ for Brassard almost seems like a lateral move. The 'WAR' of Brassard over Holland isn't that much to consider, especially when you add in whatever the plus is. If it's a pick (3, 4, 5), the value between Holland and that pick will exceed that of Brassard in a few years (considering how well the Ducks draft). The Ducks can afford to wait if that's the offer.

And Pevs is more of a 3C IMO, although I don't watch a lot of Bruins. Unless Bonino moves into the 2C role, I don't think a move to acquire Pevs makes a lot of sense for the 4th line.

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When did Palmieri pout after getting sent back to the AHL?
Over at Anaheim Calling we had terrific Crunch coverage last season, and there were a few instances where Palmieri seemed slighted/disinterested when he was sent back and forth between Anaheim and Syracuse. In games back there were times where he wouldn't play both ends of the ice, not hustle, etc. The usual stuff you expect from any 21-year old competitive hockey player. This is all secondary information, but it was from someone who essentially made covering Crunch hockey her day job.

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09-30-2012, 10:14 PM
  #73
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What are you willing to give up for the type of player that you are looking for?
That's hard to say, it would depend on who was available and how long they had left on their contract.

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09-30-2012, 10:23 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Maybe a bit out of this world but, would It be possible for you to give up holland+something else for a young center ? A la Gagner ?

Someone like Brassard may fit this ?

Holland+???
for
Brassard

I know it sucks ... but.. Brassard still youngish..
Enh. Maybe. I just can't think of a nice + for that which would make that worthwhile for the Jackets without totally screwing over the Ducks. We do have a lack of significant talent at center in Springfield... but the roster has a bloody ton of 'em, so we're not exactly in dire need of someone with Holland's upside. We'd prefer to aim higher during the draft.

Ideally, if we do trade Brassard, we'd want someone who can play a little more sooner than that but in a different forward position (RW in particular comes to mind), and while the Ducks have several guys who meet that description, so far as I can tell none of them are actually expendable (or at the very least I'd be murdered for mentioning their names ).

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09-30-2012, 10:28 PM
  #75
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Enh. Maybe. I just can't think of a nice + for that which would make that worthwhile for the Jackets without totally screwing over the Ducks. We do have a lack of significant talent at center in Springfield... but the roster has a bloody ton of 'em, so we're not exactly in dire need of someone with Holland's upside. We'd prefer to aim higher during the draft.

Ideally, if we do trade Brassard, we'd want someone who can play a little more sooner than that but in a different forward position (RW in particular comes to mind), and while the Ducks have several guys who meet that description, so far as I can tell none of them are actually expendable (or at the very least I'd be murdered for mentioning their names ).
How about this then.....

To Columbus: Hemsky

To Anaheim: Gagner

To Edmonton: Johansen and the package listed above

wait for it......

wait for it......



All joking aside, Hemsky would be a nice pickup for your club.

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