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Leaf fans: would you trade kadri for luongo?

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Old
10-01-2012, 10:58 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
goalies play at a high level longers then forwards or d
I am aware of that, I was saying we would be able to strongly compete for 1-3 years after adding on 4 years until we get to competing (guess on my part) that puts us competing for Luongo being aged 38-40. Luongo can still be good at that age but he won't be the best he has ever been at that age.

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10-01-2012, 10:59 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Toronto fans realize we won't be competing for the cup next season and not the season after in all likelihood either. Toronto probably won't be starting to strongly compete in 4+ years at which point Kadri would be 26 and entering his prime and Luongo would be 37 and leaving his prime. And since you can't expect to win a cup the first year you start competing, all of a sudden we are left with a window of 5 years at most, more likely 1-3 years of a window before all of a sudden we are now looking for another goalie to help us win the cup.
Luongo did a pretty good job mentoring a goalie recently... and 37 year old goalies can win a cup. I would also encourage baby steps for the Leafs, seems a little silly to be talking cup before you have a playoff team.

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10-01-2012, 11:02 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If one eliminates the teams that already have a number one goalie and then teams that Luongo would not likely want to go to and teams that don't want to take on $46 million guaranteed then the list is going to be very short.
So eliminating teams based on your own speculation.

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10-01-2012, 11:04 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Luongo did a pretty good job mentoring a goalie recently... and 37 year old goalies can win a cup. I would also encourage baby steps for the Leafs, seems a little silly to be talking cup before you have a playoff team.
Yep and NONE of that adds up to paying top dollar for a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year contract. Seriously are you going to pay Luongo to "mentor" someone?

It's also plausible that Luongo sucks eggs behind a weak Leaf defence. He's struggled in the playoffs behind a very very strong team.

That doubt, his age, and lengthy contract is enough to reduce the price.

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10-01-2012, 11:04 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So eliminating teams based on your own speculation.
You can make reasonable assumptions when you apply common sense as Moose has done.

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10-01-2012, 11:04 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I am aware of that, I was saying we would be able to strongly compete for 1-3 years after adding on 4 years until we get to competing (guess on my part) that puts us competing for Luongo being aged 38-40. Luongo can still be good at that age but he won't be the best he has ever been at that age.
see even that i'm not so sure about adding luongo would go a LONG way in attracting a zajac getzlaf or riberio if either made it to ufa

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10-01-2012, 11:05 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Yep and NONE of that adds up to paying top dollar for a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year contract. Seriously are you going to pay Luongo to "mentor" someone?

It's also plausible that Luongo sucks eggs behind a weak Leaf defence. He's struggled in the playoffs behind a very very strong team.

That doubt, his age, and lengthy contract is enough to reduce the price.
In 2011 Luongo was our playoff MVP. He was in consideration for the Vezina as late as game 2 of the SCF. The wheels came off when injuries and no offense caught up to the Canucks. Zero healthy d-men on the team will do that to you.

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10-01-2012, 11:05 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
If the CBA sets a lower cap but grandfather in pre-CBA contracts (which is what the PA is currently going for) does this make Luongo's contract more attractive? (Assume all contracts pre-CBA only count for ___% of their actual dollar value because they were signed before the new CBA reduced the cap).

Also, as a Canucks fan there's no way I take less than Kadri/Ashton + Colborne + 1st (top 5 protected) for Luongo.

How do Leaf fans rate Kadri vs Ashton vs Colborne?
Kadri > Colborne > Ashton is the consensus.

With Kadri being the biggest boom or bust (Mike Ribeiro <-> AHL 1st liner)
Colborne being a slightly safer option (Martin Hanzal <->Jay McClement) *I've given up on his offensive upside
Ashton being the safest pick (Colby Armstrong, when he was good)

Any of them having a chance to go above or below the given.

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10-01-2012, 11:06 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Luongo did a pretty good job mentoring a goalie recently... and 37 year old goalies can win a cup. I would also encourage baby steps for the Leafs, seems a little silly to be talking cup before you have a playoff team.
I know 37 year old goalies can win a cup, what I'm saying though is the leafs probably won't be ready to compete for a cup until Luongo is 37. That leaves us a very small window of only a few years at most to compete for the cup until our goalie retires or begins to not play well again and all of a sudden we are now scrambling for a goalie to play for our competing team.

The reason the leafs have been so bad these late 7 years is due to all of the shortsighted moves in which we were always sacrificing the future to try and make the playoffs now. This whole Kadri for Luongo basis of a trade in my opinion is just another one of those moves and I don't want to make them anymore.

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10-01-2012, 11:10 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
You can make reasonable assumptions when you apply common sense as Moose has done.
Based on what? Using what Moose has done here are some teams that I could see a deal being made with:

Edmonton
Washington
Florida
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Columbus
Possibly Detroit
Ottawa
Possibly Phoenix (if Smith regresses)
New York Islanders

Maybe Philly wants to move on from Bryzgalov after last years disaster? Maybe he struggles again and they become players?

What happens if Fleury regresses again too? Maybe Pittsburgh becomes players?

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10-01-2012, 11:11 AM
  #111
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Luongo and his contract can stay in Vancouver. Luongo signed the contract and Vancouver signed him to it, now they can deal with it. We'll develop our own goalie or sign a free agent which won't cost any assets.

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10-01-2012, 11:12 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If one eliminates the teams that already have a number one goalie and then teams that Luongo would not likely want to go to and teams that don't want to take on $46 million guaranteed then the list is going to be very short.
Pretty much, it's 2 or 3 teams that might be interested. I think Vancouver is better off dealing Schneider because no one is going to pay off Gillis for Luongo and the contract he gave to him.

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10-01-2012, 11:13 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SuperJayMann View Post
Luongo and his contract can stay in Vancouver. Luongo signed the contract and Vancouver signed him to it, now they can deal with it. We'll develop our own goalie or sign a free agent which won't cost any assets.
I'm personally fine with that. Luongo has been the greatest goalie in our franchises history and is an elite goalie. I personally don't want to trade him away, and would enjoy winning continuously with him as our starting or platoon goaltender.

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10-01-2012, 11:14 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Pretty much, it's 2 or 3 teams that might be interested. I think Vancouver is better off dealing Schneider because no one is going to pay off Gillis for Luongo and the contract he gave to him.
Source? Or wishful thinking because you want an elite goalie for cheap?

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10-01-2012, 11:15 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Based on what? Using what Moose has done here are some teams that I could see a deal being made with:

Edmonton
Washington
Florida
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Columbus
Possibly Detroit
Ottawa
Possibly Phoenix (if Smith regresses)
New York Islanders

Maybe Philly wants to move on from Bryzgalov after last years disaster? Maybe he struggles again and they become players?

What happens if Fleury regresses again too? Maybe Pittsburgh becomes players?
Forgot about teams that the Canucks wouldn't want to trade Luongo to.

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10-01-2012, 11:18 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Forgot about teams that the Canucks wouldn't want to trade Luongo to.
Source? Have you talked to Gillis about this?

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10-01-2012, 11:19 AM
  #117
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There is no chance Toronto gives up one of their top prospects like Kadri and someone like Carl Gunnarsson. If anything they should give up players like Clarke MacArthur & Mike Komisarek, however in my opinion no matter what trades for Luongo has to give the Canucks an A+ package based on Luongo's contract. If any Canuck fans think they can get more then in my opinion they are wrong about that.

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10-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #118
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I could even see the leafs giving up value if they were a Luongo away from being a good team, but they aren't.

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10-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Based on what? Using what Moose has done here are some teams that I could see a deal being made with:

Edmonton
Washington
Florida
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Columbus
Possibly Detroit
Ottawa
Possibly Phoenix (if Smith regresses)
New York Islanders

Maybe Philly wants to move on from Bryzgalov after last years disaster? Maybe he struggles again and they become players?

What happens if Fleury regresses again too? Maybe Pittsburgh becomes players?

ottawa has anderson on a long term deal


based on recent history the hawks do you REALLY see that as possible?

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10-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Source? Or wishful thinking because you want an elite goalie for cheap?
If Luongo was really elite he wouldn't be on the trade block.

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10-01-2012, 11:23 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I could even see the leafs giving up value if they were a Luongo away from being a good team, but they aren't.
a good team yes but not great

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10-01-2012, 11:23 AM
  #122
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Kessel is fat too.
MooseOAK is clearly being facetious yet some people are eating it up as if he was serious

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10-01-2012, 11:25 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Based on what? Using what Moose has done here are some teams that I could see a deal being made with:

Edmonton
Washington
Florida
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Columbus
Possibly Detroit
Ottawa
Possibly Phoenix (if Smith regresses)
New York Islanders

Maybe Philly wants to move on from Bryzgalov after last years disaster? Maybe he struggles again and they become players?

What happens if Fleury regresses again too? Maybe Pittsburgh becomes players?
Lots of maybe's.

Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that their is anything but a minimal market for Luongo?

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10-01-2012, 11:26 AM
  #124
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If Luongo was really elite he wouldn't be on the trade block.
Was Joe Thornton elte when Boston traded him when they had Bergeron comig up the ranks?

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10-01-2012, 11:26 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Yep and NONE of that adds up to paying top dollar for a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year contract. Seriously are you going to pay Luongo to "mentor" someone?

It's also plausible that Luongo sucks eggs behind a weak Leaf defence. He's struggled in the playoffs behind a very very strong team.

That doubt, his age, and lengthy contract is enough to reduce the price.
Yes, I'm going to pay Luongo to mentor someone, because that "mentoring" comes with 55+ games of lights out goaltending.

Luongo has been playing great in this league for 11+ years, a lot of those behind worse teams than the Leafs have at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I know 37 year old goalies can win a cup, what I'm saying though is the leafs probably won't be ready to compete for a cup until Luongo is 37. That leaves us a very small window of only a few years at most to compete for the cup until our goalie retires or begins to not play well again and all of a sudden we are now scrambling for a goalie to play for our competing team.

The reason the leafs have been so bad these late 7 years is due to all of the shortsighted moves in which we were always sacrificing the future to try and make the playoffs now. This whole Kadri for Luongo basis of a trade in my opinion is just another one of those moves and I don't want to make them anymore.
This isn't trading your first round pick for a three month rental, this is trading some decent young pieces for another franchise player. Luongo is a guy that will set the bar high as far as work ethic, he'll teach the young guys how to be a professional and he'll play at a very high level well doing it. It's great having young players with lots of promise but eventually someone has to show them how to put it together.

Luongo solves more than just the goaltending trouble for the Leafs imo, unless you think Phanuef is the leader you guys need.

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