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Leaf fans: would you trade kadri for luongo?

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Old
10-01-2012, 04:23 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
I'm a Canucks fan, and I know exactly what interview you're talking about but he certainly did not say he'd play for only 6 more years. The exact wording was ""Maybe [the contract]'s a bit of a handicap for me right now to be able to decide as far as how many teams are really interested in my services," Luongo said. "There's a few teams on there that I'd be willing to look at."

"Obviously Florida is my home in the off-season and makes sense, [there are] family reasons why [but] at the end of the day it's hockey, also. There’s not many years left in my career even though I got a long contract; I want to be focused on a chance to do something."


So it could be 6, could be 8, could be 4. Who knows. But certainly doesn't sound like he'll run the whole contract.
And the reason that Luongo hasn't been traded is that no one knows what will happen to these contracts in the future if players don't play until the end.

If it was easy as "6 years and he's out by either retiring or waiving" teams would love to have him, for sure.

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10-01-2012, 04:23 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'd say Burke is more likely to be fired if he misses the playoffs than Gillis if e lose against Luongo in the playoffs. I'd also say its more liklely the Leafs miss the playoffs without Luongo than the Canucks losing against Edmonton/Chicago/Columbus/whoever in the playoffs.
If Gillis gives Luongo away, and the Canucks have another opening round collapse then I could see him being fired. That's why it's so key for him to get value back.

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10-01-2012, 04:25 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If Gillis gives Luongo away, and the Canucks have another opening round collapse then I could see him being fired. That's why it's so key for him to get value back.
If his choice is between getting fair value from a WC team or getting lowballed by Florida/Toronto, what would you expect him to do?

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10-01-2012, 04:26 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If his choice is between getting fair value from a WC team or getting lowballed by Florida/Toronto, what would you expect him to do?
WC team 100 times out of 100.

Get good value for your assets and go out and beat that team.

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10-01-2012, 04:28 PM
  #280
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WC team 100 times out of 100.

Get good value for your assets and go out and beat that team.
Exactly. But if we end up losing to that team in the playoffs, bite the bullet and move on. I doubt he'd get fired for that.

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10-01-2012, 04:28 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
It was legal, so why not? If you change the law, you can't punish someone for something that was permitted at that time.
If the Canucks say "No fair, we intended for Luongo to retire in 6 years and we tacked on the extra 4 seasons just to get a lower cap hit!" then that is admitting to cap circumvention.

Bettman warned teams against these contracts for a reason, you know.

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10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #282
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"He can keep his job" is not the same as "he will keep his job". Again, if Burke does not trade for Lu, and TO misses the playoffs, is he finally fired?
After using our #5 and #35 draft picks on drafting player, and trading Aulie for a younger Ashton and Schenn for a player his age in JVR, without jumping at UFA's or expensive vets like Nash, I'd say Burke's job is safe. But it's not my call.

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10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If the Canucks say "No fair, we intended for Luongo to retire in 6 years and we tacked on the extra 4 seasons just to get a lower cap hit!" then that is admitting to cap circumvention.

Bettman warned teams against these contracts for a reason, you know.
No, but they can say "We thought Luongo's play would be good enough until he's 43. Now he feels he wants to retire at 39 anyways. What could we have done?"

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10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Exactly. But if we end up losing to that team in the playoffs, bite the bullet and move on. I doubt he'd get fired for that.
Agreed. And I have no problem seeing us lose to Luongo as an Oiler or Hawk. I would have a problem seeing Luongo take the Leafs to the playoffs, meanwhile we lose in the first round because we gave him up and didn't address any need. I think Gillis shares this view.

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10-01-2012, 04:32 PM
  #285
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No, but they can say "We thought Luongo's play would be good enough until he's 43. Now he feels he wants to retire at 39 anyways. What could we have done?"
Sign him to a non-cap circumvention contract like they were warned about in the first place.

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10-01-2012, 04:32 PM
  #286
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I'll give it a whirl.

No.

Ok. Thebluemachine is on record. Now just waiting for Smoke meat pete...

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10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #287
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Sign him to a non-cap circumvention contract like they were warned about in the first place.
Define cap circumvention. 7 years? 10 years? Whatever "feels" like circumvention?

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10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'd say Burke is more likely to be fired if he misses the playoffs than Gillis if e lose against Luongo in the playoffs. I'd also say its more liklely the Leafs miss the playoffs without Luongo than the Canucks losing against Edmonton/Chicago/Columbus/whoever in the playoffs.
Perhaps the challenge is, you are thinking about what level of pressure Burke feels as opposed to what I think is best for our team/organization. I personally am way more concerned about our team making the right moves for the long term future of our team than I do about whether or not Burke keeps his job.

you say Burke is on the hotseat and has to make moves to win now.

I say he should be building this team for the future and if he wants to take too many shortcuts with aging vets on bad contracts, than he can GTFO, and let someone else do it.

Personally, I think he's building for the long term and not trying to force the team to win now.

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10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #289
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Avatar bet that previously signed contracts would be grandfathered in if that happened? For 1 month after new CBA is signed?
Ok I'll do that.

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10-01-2012, 04:36 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Define cap circumvention. 7 years? 10 years? Whatever "feels" like circumvention?
Any contract that manipulates #'s or term to get a favourable cap hit is circumvention. The challenge in these cases in proving the circumvention as no one will admit to it.

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10-01-2012, 04:36 PM
  #291
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After using our #5 and #35 draft picks on drafting player, and trading Aulie for a younger Ashton and Schenn for a player his age in JVR, without jumping at UFA's or expensive vets like Nash, I'd say Burke's job is safe. But it's not my call.
So you're saying he will not be fired if he passes on Lu and fails to make the playoffs. Yes/No?

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10-01-2012, 04:36 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Perhaps the challenge is, you are thinking about what level of pressure Burke feels as opposed to what I think is best for our team/organization. I personally am way more concerned about our team making the right moves for the long term future of our team than I do about whether or not Burke keeps his job.

you say Burke is on the hotseat and has to make moves to win now.

I say he should be building this team for the future and if he wants to take too many shortcuts with aging vets on bad contracts, than he can GTFO, and let someone else do it.

Personally, I think he's building for the long term and not trying to force the team to win now.
I know Burke is unlikely to go against his principles to save his job. But the original argument stemmed from someone saying Gillis had to take a worse offer from the EC, because if he loses to a team in the WC with Luongo, he'll be fired. To which we retorted Burke is much more likely to get fired for not making the playoffs.

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10-01-2012, 04:39 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No, but they can say "We thought Luongo's play would be good enough until he's 43. Now he feels he wants to retire at 39 anyways. What could we have done?"
Or more absurdly:

"We thought Luongo would set a record for most games played by a goaltender. What could we have done?"

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10-01-2012, 04:39 PM
  #294
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Ok. Thebluemachine is on record. Now just waiting for Smoke meat pete...
I'm sorry you have the inability to read each of my posts where the answer was "it depends". Based on his current trends, the answer is no, but if he sells the farm to try and win now, and fails to make the playoffs, he will be fired.

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10-01-2012, 04:40 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Define cap circumvention. 7 years? 10 years? Whatever "feels" like circumvention?
http://capgeek.com/player/683

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10-01-2012, 04:40 PM
  #296
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So you're saying he will not be fired if he passes on Lu and fails to make the playoffs. Yes/No?
It's not just about Luuuuuu!

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10-01-2012, 04:41 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If Gillis gives Luongo away, and the Canucks have another opening round collapse then I could see him being fired. That's why it's so key for him to get value back.
To be fair. I'd say the pressure mounts on him if he moves Schneider. Collapse or not, trading Luongo would buy Gillis some leeway. Regardless, unless we outright miss the playoffs by some anomaly. Gillis has job security for a while.

For the trade itself. We have no need nor interest in Gunner. He would be regulated to the third line, thus contribute nothing. Kadri I like however he is not the basis of a deal. We need something else of value be it a first or impact player.

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10-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #298
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Well after 6 years his salary drops off a cliff, so that seems like the most logical time for him to retire doesn't it? But I'll take your word, as my memory of the interview is a bit hazy at this point.

But the other point I made still stands: Luongo does not have a NMC so he can be sent to the minors at any point. Additionally, 6 years from now, Luongo has a clause in his contract which permits the team to trade Luongo. So in 6 years, Luongo could retire, could be sent to the minors, or could be traded.
True, however Clauses aren't obligated to honor unless the new team sets one up again. ie. Keith Ballard lost his L-NTC when he came from Panthers.

And stating he can be thrown in the minors yes, very true, but for a team like NYI who don't exactly have all the money laying around that can cause a problem.


6 years is the most logical however, there are many variables. What if he makes a bunch of bad investments and now is short on money? Play as a back up for 3 million or collect NHL Pension for 200k? Easy choice imo.

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10-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #299
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Yes, a large number of teams have contracts like that. If they all counted as cap circumvention, then why would they pass that in a new CBA?

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10-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #300
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Sign him to a non-cap circumvention contract like they were warned about in the first place.
I feel like people seem to think Cap Circumvention is a bad thing. There's a reason they banned those types of contracts because you could sign star players and pay them huge dollars but only have significantly reduced cap hit.

5.33 for an elite goaltender is very reasonable. The shady part is when he is going to retire or if you can afford to buy him out / bury him / trade him.

Personally I'm not concerned when it comes to particulars of a contract, that's what GMs and A-GMs are paid to worry about... If they feel there is a need to shed the cap, they'll find a way.

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