At the same time, if you are the kind of person who does bicep curls all day to have the biggest biceps in the world mainly for appearance, you aren't going to have a strength advantage over anyone who might have slightly smaller biceps but an equally strong tricep. Exclusive bicep training has no use besides appearance.
Very few activities require only one muscle, yes it's likely that someone who has big biceps also have other big muscles, but we all know that one guy who does nothing but bicep curls, that's the perfect example of how superficial appearance doesn't mean practical strength.
No one is saying otherwise. The point is that people don't realize that larger muscles can exert more power than smaller ones. I was going to stop repeating myself but it seems as though it still is going over peoples' heads.
So if Eller got generally larger over the summer we can safely assume that he's gotten more powerful physically (though his mental game, compete level, talent, etc are not in the equation). People kept disagreeing so I kept repeating myself. People brought up their friends who do judo or whatever and I kept reiterating my initial point: larger muscles can exert more power than smaller muscles... so a guy who looks as though has gotten larger muscles all over his body can probably generate more power than before ie is stronger/more powerful than himself before this gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD
This thread is hilarious!
I don't know anything about this supposed "broscience" but I am a physics guy. Just taking a guess here but, technically speaking, shouldn't muscle density be the determining factor relating to strength? Is "muscle density" even a real thing? Lol because bigger doesn't mean denser. And then there's the part about a short guy and a tall guy having the same size biceps, the short guy should be stronger, no? He'd be able to create more torque I'd think, but I could.totally be wrong! Educate me bro!
broscience is when bros on fitness sites (or anywhere, really) repeat semi-literate ideas about physiology, biology, anatomy or nutrition as though it was pure, proven science. Stuff like 'creatine is bad for you' or 'do X to boost your metabolic system' or 'eat the most calories of your day in the early morning' or 'seven small meals a day is better than three big ones' or whatever. Those assertions are all wrong but keep being spread around like it's gonorreha and it's 1967 Ho Chin Minh City. Creatine exists in nature and in your diet and it's a self-produced amino acid - it is not bad for you, at all. And the human body is designed to have stores of energy available all the time, you can eat whenever and it'll do the same thing.
I haven't had a bio class in a long time but I'm pretty sure muscle density is analogous to 'more muscle fibres' which basically means larger, bigger muscles. And yeah that's an interesting question about the tall/short guys but human bio-mechanics is based on a lot of forces and there are triceps and supporting muscles at work in both situations and honestly I wouldn't know where to begin to even think which guy could exert more power (though if we go by "muscle density" it has to be the short guy, right? Even in a pure mechanics sense, think about the lever (elbow) and all...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion
I'm not the most experienced lifter, but everything in this post is correct. Broscience, whatever it is, sounds extremely gay.
It is gay, and it's dangerous (foolish) and it's all over the place. This thread has a ton of examples of broscience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E
My point was that physical appearance isn't a determining factor when it comes to strength, or power.
The size of a bicep (a relatively small muscle) means nothing.
You measure strength, power, flexibility, coordination, accuracy, stamina, endurance, speed, agility, balance through various tests, not physical appearance. Those ten components should all be considered when talking about general fitness.
I have never heard of any athletes getting their actual muscles measured, so I don't know whether bigger actually means stronger.
And where does it end? Person A has bigger arms but Person B has bigger shoulders. Who's stronger?
The basic principle of ''the guy who appears to be bigger'' is necessarily stronger is just wrong. Now, maybe bigger does mean stronger, it certainly seems logical. My point is just that there's no way to really know the size of the muscle just by looking at someone. Remove bone density, remove water retention, that arm won't look as big, but there's no way to know what it would look like just by looking at a guy.
I work in fitness, I've seen smaller guys (in terms of ''jackedness'') lift just as much or more than bigger guys.
There really isn't a point to be made about that man. No one is saying larger guys are stronger but it is correct to say that a larger muscle can exert more power (I swear this is the tenth time I'm saying this) - so from that we can come up with an inference about Lars Eller circa 2008 and Lars Eller circa 2012; he's the same person who will have the same physiology (underlying genetics and whatnot) but now he looks way bigger in almost every way (arms, legs, torso) and given that we know that larger muscles can (usually, in general) exert more power I'm going to assert that Lars Eller looks more powerful than before. -> Which was my orignal point!
I'm pretty sure a 175-lbs Akido champion can wreck his **** but that's not what I'm saying, y'know?
This thread should really be less about big muscles and more about how awesome Eller is.
I just wish he loosened up mentally and saw the ice a bit more. His hands are fine and he's always been strong and good defensively... if only he could just make better plays. He's poised to break-out I think, he has all the tools and then some.
Quick question for my keeper league fantasy pool: Do you think Lars will get a more offensive role next season, or is he essentially the Habs' shutdown centermen and nothing more (with a bit of offense in him)?
Quick question for my keeper league fantasy pool: Do you think Lars will get a more offensive role next season, or is he essentially the Habs' shutdown centermen and nothing more (with a bit of offense in him)?
Thanks guys.
He's still behind Plekanec and Desharnais, so it's 99% likely that he slots in as the third line shutdown centre without a lot of power play time. We have a brand new coach coming in, but I can't see things changing.
I say he's good for 20 goals this season, but he'll have tough minutes.
There really isn't a point to be made about that man. No one is saying larger guys are stronger but it is correct to say that a larger muscle can exert more power (I swear this is the tenth time I'm saying this) - so from that we can come up with an inference about Lars Eller circa 2008 and Lars Eller circa 2012; he's the same person who will have the same physiology (underlying genetics and whatnot) but now he looks way bigger in almost every way (arms, legs, torso) and given that we know that larger muscles can (usually, in general) exert more power I'm going to assert that Lars Eller looks more powerful than before. -> Which was my orignal point!
I'm pretty sure a 175-lbs Akido champion can wreck his **** but that's not what I'm saying, y'know?
Agreed. I just jumped into a conversation, so wasn't sure exactly what was thrown around. For Eller, there's no doubt he's surely stronger. The only thing that remains unknown is if his increase in size will decrease his speed and agility. Personally I don't think so.
He's still behind Plekanec and Desharnais, so it's 99% likely that he slots in as the third line shutdown centre without a lot of power play time. We have a brand new coach coming in, but I can't see things changing.
I say he's good for 20 goals this season, but he'll have tough minutes.
Yeah figured he'd be stuck behind them. Sucks as it kind of limits him to have a true breakout season, especially if he truly is the size that those pictures show. Wow.
Yeah figured he'd be stuck behind them. Sucks as it kind of limits him to have a true breakout season, especially if he truly is the size that those pictures show. Wow.
Besides, I already got Desharnais anyways.
The other thing to consider is that eller is probably the next best option to fill a top 6 role, even on the wing, if the habs get an injury. I know that sounds all fine and dandy, but the problem is that eller has never looked nearly as effective playing on the wing as he does at centre. He's a very high risk player to take, and the potential benefits are not quite enough... even as a flier pickup.
I just wish he loosened up mentally and saw the ice a bit more. His hands are fine and he's always been strong and good defensively... if only he could just make better plays. He's poised to break-out I think, he has all the tools and then some.
No one is saying otherwise. The point is that people don't realize that larger muscles can exert more power than smaller ones. I was going to stop repeating myself but it seems as though it still is going over peoples' heads.
The problem is that without actually testing Eller's strength, you are just making a generalization. Strength training and building for mass are two completely different animals. In bodybuilding the goal of the workout is to break down and fatigue the muscle. One of the ideas is progressive overload…using heavier weights over time…but since fatigue is involved the result is muscle breakdown. “Breaking down the muscle” is great for building mass, but a terrible strategy if long-term strength gains are your goal. Strength training has a completely different goal.
Despite popular belief, your body does not use 100% of it's muscle fibers for a given movement. The goal in strength training is building your nervous system and your body's ability to recruit and use said muscle fibers. That is why powerlifters are typically smaller than their bodybuilding counterparts. That is why after a traumatic accident people might for example lose the use of their legs but have to learn how to walk all over again even though they have the muscle. It's a lot more complicated than just saying bigger muscels = stronger.
Gaining strength in a muscle without adding size is in my opinion the quickest route to looking lean and defined. If you put on mass at the same rate you gain strength, you will just have a bigger looking version of the same soft looking muscle.
As for ronnie of jersey shore, people waited for a long time to see him fight and when he finally fought(if you want to call it that) the situation he didn't even do any damage.
Kinda cool that 4 of our bottom 6 forwards are doing Bikram's Yoga together. If you've never done it before it's a hard workout.
Thanks I'm going to look into this. I've been mostly weight training all my life and I'd like to look at trying something else. I was thinking about taking boxing or something but this sounds cool.
He's poised to break-out I think, he has all the tools and then some.
I think so too. One of the ways top prediction sites use to predict whether a player will break-out is to look at his number of games played. I forget exactly the number of games they look for but he's due.
Thanks I'm going to look into this. I've been mostly weight training all my life and I'd like to look at trying something else. I was thinking about taking boxing or something but this sounds cool.
I did/do Ashtanga and it kicks my butt everytime. It's like satan made the routine.
Anybody have any good yoga schools/classes they can recommend? Preferably near the plateau. I always used to think of yoga being for girls but hey if it's good enough for the habs it's good enough for me!
Anybody have any good yoga schools/classes they can recommend? Preferably near the plateau. I always used to think of yoga being for girls but hey if it's good enough for the habs it's good enough for me!
I know there is one on St. Denis and Laurier, but I know nothing about it. It's right beside the metro.
I just wish he loosened up mentally and saw the ice a bit more. His hands are fine and he's always been strong and good defensively... if only he could just make better plays. He's poised to break-out I think, he has all the tools and then some.
i think it's the only thing holding him back, has all the tools just needs to be more creative
i think it's the only thing holding him back, has all the tools just needs to be more creative
When he was playing center and had Kostitsyn on his line, he was almost a ppg player. The problem wasn't him, it's that he's not playing with our top wingers and had no pp time. He's pretty much our Jordan Staal for now.
When he was playing center and had Kostitsyn on his line, he was almost a ppg player. The problem wasn't him, it's that he's not playing with our top wingers and had no pp time. He's pretty much our Jordan Staal for now.
agree with this. Eller certainly didn't strike me as a player that was lacking creativity. He was still missing some 'strength' last season, and as as mentioned above, good line mates and more minutes.
agree with this. Eller certainly didn't strike me as a player that was lacking creativity. He was still missing some 'strength' last season, and as as mentioned above, good line mates and more minutes.
Agreed. He didn't lack creativity. He lacked finish. But this didn't appear to be due to low hockey instincts or IQ, he just seemed to rush plays and be impatient, like he knew he could score so got carried away and ends up misplaying the puck, or something similar to that. I'm sure he'll develop into a strong center, so long that we actually use him as one.
