HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Dion Phaneuf

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-01-2012, 11:45 AM
  #26
gabeliscious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,535
vCash: 500
considering leafs dont have a #1 center or a #1 goalie, and most would consider phaneuf at best a #2 defenseman outside of leaf land i would be pretty surprised to see burke move phaneuf for something that is neither a #1 center, a #1 goalie, or a #1 defenseman.

leafs are overflowing with wingers, 2nd, 3rd, 4th line center, 3-6 defenseman, and backup goalies. it would have to take something pretty special to convince burke to move his captain.

gabeliscious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 11:46 AM
  #27
TOGuy14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,834
vCash: 500
My take on Phaneuf is this:

He is still a #1 D-man on a ton of teams in this league, but his play is not on the same level as it was a few years back in Calgary. Quite often Phaneuf tries too hard to make the big play (or hit) that takes him out of position.

He has a monster shot, but it isn't the most accurate. If he takes a little power off of it and gets it on net more, he would be much more effective on the PP.

When he carries the puck it is pretty hard to get him off it, but if you do his speed is average (maybe a slight bit above) so you can probably turn it around on him fairly fast.

Phaneuf is our best D all-round, and takes a lot of blame because of a slight overpay contract that he has. We wouldn't get equal value for him on the trade market so unless a team is willing to meet our needs (namely a #1C) I don't see him being moved at all.

TOGuy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 11:50 AM
  #28
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
Paul Stastny is about his value.
If the Avalanche needed defensemen then this would probably be a solid trade, IMO.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #29
Mister Hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hockeyland
Country: United States
Posts: 964
vCash: 500
I think it's funny that a lot of people used to think his value was Malkin. Now, it's a bag of pucks.

Mister Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 01:08 PM
  #30
dave babych returns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
My take on Phaneuf is this:
Good post. Although I will point out:

Quote:
He is still a #1 D-man on a ton of teams in this league, but his play is not on the same level as it was a few years back in Calgary. Quite often Phaneuf tries too hard to make the big play (or hit) that takes him out of position.
This is exactly what he did in Calgary.

I'd say he's not too far off the player he was in Calgary, although a change in his role combined with a lack of "the next step" has hurt his stats.. he has one of the toughest QOCs among Leafs blueliners (compared to one of the lowest in Calgary in his 60 point season) but is still one of the best Corsi Relative players on his blueline.

A 30 point drop in his PDO between that season and this past one will hurt any players stats as well.

dave babych returns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 02:27 PM
  #31
CanucksSayEh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,462
vCash: 500
A 1st and a top prospect. We are kinda stacked on defense, but should Edler show signs of not resigning here I would consider Schnieder.

CanucksSayEh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 02:34 PM
  #32
TylerSVT*
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,378
vCash: 1303
More than what we got that is for sure.

Stupid Sutter.

TylerSVT* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 03:00 PM
  #33
Iceonfire
Registered User
 
Iceonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,837
vCash: 500
Obviously he wouldn't be traded now. That is unless his performance drops off the charts, or someone else in the system takes his minutes. Or if the trade was one sided enough in the Leafs favor.

I just wanted to gauge his worth because a lot of T.O fans seem to hate on him. And the media seems to absolutely destroy him at times.

Iceonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 03:05 PM
  #34
kamosko
Ginger Jesus
 
kamosko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Girouxsalem
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,367
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
ericsson + 4th round draft pick seems about right, just hope he could adjust to the red wings system.
Lolwut

kamosko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 04:10 PM
  #35
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,806
vCash: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
My take on Phaneuf is this:

He is still a #1 D-man on a ton of teams in this league, but his play is not on the same level as it was a few years back in Calgary. Quite often Phaneuf tries too hard to make the big play (or hit) that takes him out of position.

He has a monster shot, but it isn't the most accurate. If he takes a little power off of it and gets it on net more, he would be much more effective on the PP.

When he carries the puck it is pretty hard to get him off it, but if you do his speed is average (maybe a slight bit above) so you can probably turn it around on him fairly fast.

Phaneuf is our best D all-round, and takes a lot of blame because of a slight overpay contract that he has. We wouldn't get equal value for him on the trade market so unless a team is willing to meet our needs (namely a #1C) I don't see him being moved at all.
I think a lot of the reason people see Phaneuf the way they do is because he's the eighth highest paid defenseman in the NHL.

Whenever I see him play, something just doesn't click. His hockey IQ is visibly poor for a top pairing defenseman. He doesn't get that if it's a 3 on 2 against you, going for a big hit is only going to create a 2 on 1 or even a 3 on 1. It's like he's in the NHL 13 mindset where big hits equals good praise and great play. I read an article where Calgary's old coach said that Iginla and Reghr tried to teach him how to play really solid defense and he ignored them.

He's decent offensively. His skating isn't great, but he is strong like you said. He does have a decent slap shot power, but as you said, can't hit the net with it. I remember when the Sens and Leafs had two games against each other last year. Leafs had something like 19 powerplays over the two games and didn't get a single powerplay goal. A big part of that is because their whole powerplay was Phaneuf getting the puck, Phaneuf shooting and Phaneuf missing the net.

I think his years in Calgary tainted a lot of people. Once everyone realized taking his shot out of the play really took his offensive effectiveness out of the game, his play dipped.

He is overpaid. His contract probably brings down his trade value a little bit. He's probably still worth a 1st+ though.

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 04:23 PM
  #36
Spitsfan67*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I'd ask for a 1st plus a B level prospect but maybe thats just me...
Do you realize this guy is one of the most over-rated hockey players, Theres even a poll that says he is, He's a hard hitter but coming to Toronto made him a lot worse, he was great in Calgary tho, But he's lost a lot of value, I'd give a 2nd and a Third/ Average Prospect

Spitsfan67* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #37
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
 
Man Bear Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Do you realize this guy is one of the most over-rated hockey players, Theres even a poll that says he is, He's a hard hitter but coming to Toronto made him a lot worse, he was great in Calgary tho, But he's lost a lot of value, I'd give a 2nd and a Third/ Average Prospect
And the upside is there. Isn't it amazing how Dion continues to be the most overrated player in hockey meanwhile, who the hell is rating him so high to begin with?

Man Bear Pig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 06:17 PM
  #38
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
He's probably still worth a 1st+ though.
Probably?

7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 06:39 PM
  #39
Grant
LL Genius
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,701
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I think a lot of the reason people see Phaneuf the way they do is because he's the eighth highest paid defenseman in the NHL.

Whenever I see him play, something just doesn't click. His hockey IQ is visibly poor for a top pairing defenseman. He doesn't get that if it's a 3 on 2 against you, going for a big hit is only going to create a 2 on 1 or even a 3 on 1. It's like he's in the NHL 13 mindset where big hits equals good praise and great play. I read an article where Calgary's old coach said that Iginla and Reghr tried to teach him how to play really solid defense and he ignored them.

He's decent offensively. His skating isn't great, but he is strong like you said. He does have a decent slap shot power, but as you said, can't hit the net with it. I remember when the Sens and Leafs had two games against each other last year. Leafs had something like 19 powerplays over the two games and didn't get a single powerplay goal. A big part of that is because their whole powerplay was Phaneuf getting the puck, Phaneuf shooting and Phaneuf missing the net.

I think his years in Calgary tainted a lot of people. Once everyone realized taking his shot out of the play really took his offensive effectiveness out of the game, his play dipped.

He is overpaid. His contract probably brings down his trade value a little bit. He's probably still worth a 1st+ though.
Cap hit wise maybe. Looking at salaries he is tied for the 12th highest.

Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 06:42 PM
  #40
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,806
vCash: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Probably?
Yep. I'm not going to guarantee anything because we simply don't know how GM's value him. Who's to say nobody would offer up a 1st+ once they look at his play and how much he makes?

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 06:45 PM
  #41
TurdFerguson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
Paul Stastny is about his value.
Don't like the leafs or the Avs, but Phaneuf is worth more IMO. There are tons of centers better than Stastny but not nearly as many Dmen better than Phaneuf. I've always felt a #1D is more important than a #1C.

TurdFerguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 06:53 PM
  #42
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,283
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Do you realize this guy is one of the most over-rated hockey players, Theres even a poll that says he is, He's a hard hitter but coming to Toronto made him a lot worse, he was great in Calgary tho, But he's lost a lot of value, I'd give a 2nd and a Third/ Average Prospect
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yep. I'm not going to guarantee anything because we simply don't know how GM's value him. Who's to say nobody would offer up a 1st+ once they look at his play and how much he makes?
Gaustad recieved a 1st on an expiring contract....

The Podium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:01 PM
  #43
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yep. I'm not going to guarantee anything because we simply don't know how GM's value him. Who's to say nobody would offer up a 1st+ once they look at his play and how much he makes?
Oh thank god. Dion Phaneuf, the 12th highest scoring defenseman last year is probably worth a 1st. Dion Phaneuf, the guy with the 2nd highest Corsi REL amongst Leafs defensemen despite playing against the highest competition is probably worth a 1st. Dion Phaneuf, who's salary makes up less than 10% of the total cap, is probably worth a first. Excellent.

7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #44
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,427
vCash: 500
I don't agree that Phaneuf isn't as good of a player now than in his Calgary days. If anything I'd say he's better.

He really got his career back on track last season.

People are just much harder on Phaneuf now because:

-He now collects a big paycheque

-He isn't the new kid on the block so people focus more on the negative then positives. People love to build players up then criticize them only a couple years later

-People forget he plays on a worse team supported in goal by Reimer instead of a prime Kipper and his D partner last season was Gunnarson whose a far cry from a prime Hamrlik, Regher or Aucoin. The Leafs forwards are also among the worst forwards in the league at helping support their D group unlike Calgary forwards who were very good in this department

-People forget in his first 3 seasons Phaneuf saw 436, 440 and 413 PP minutes each season. Last season he only saw 291 minutes with his points per power play minute being about the same

Ricky Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #45
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,916
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Oh thank god. Dion Phaneuf, the 12th highest scoring defenseman last year is probably worth a 1st. Dion Phaneuf, the guy with the 2nd highest Corsi REL amongst Leafs defensemen despite playing against the highest competition is probably worth a 1st. Dion Phaneuf, who's salary makes up less than 10% of the total cap, is probably worth a first. Excellent.
If that. His contract is a killer. If the cap goes down without a rollback, his cap hit would be crippling compared to the production he brings. Also, it's a very deep draft. Maybe a late first from a contending team with cap space.


















Not so fun when it's on the other side.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #46
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If that. His contract is a killer. If the cap goes down without a rollback, his cap hit would be crippling compared to the production he brings. Also, it's a very deep draft. Maybe a late first from a contending team with cap space.














Not so fun when it's on the other side.
I see what you did there


7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:42 PM
  #47
Roof Daddy
Registered User
 
Roof Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
To be fair, that's all the Leafs gave up to acquire him

But realistically, I think Stastny, or a Stastny type player, would be fair value.
Add Marleau, though I doubt he would waive his NMC to leave the only team he has known for a less competitive team with a suffocating media presence. I also think the Leafs would have to add value-wise.

Roof Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 07:47 PM
  #48
Gavy
Registered User
 
Gavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Add Marleau, though I doubt he would waive his NMC to leave the only team he has known for a less competitive team with a suffocating media presence. I also think the Leafs would have to add value-wise.
Wait, the Leafs would have to add to Dion to get Marleau? bahaha

Gavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 09:49 PM
  #49
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
 
Leaf Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: India
Posts: 70,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
ericsson + 4th round draft pick seems about right, just hope he could adjust to the red wings system.
Good luck thinking that will get you Dion from the leafs.

As far as the value goes, it's hard to gauge. He's a solid player for us and he's also a leader that really can't be replaced by someone within our system. So likely a top prospect and a high pick (so mid-late first - second round) would be ideal.

__________________
Leaf Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2012, 09:49 PM
  #50
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,632
vCash: 500
I don't get why we're trying to peg his value to draft picks / prospects.... That's not what he'd be made available for.

The Leafs are weak at the top of their lineup. They've got a strong system of youth with depth at almost every position.

Sure, you could look at positional swaps... but let's look at the positions. Toronto's pretty well set on the wing with Kessel, Lupul, JvR, MacArthur & Kulemin. That's 5 guys who are reasonably capable of scoring 20+ goals, including one who should be well into the 20s and another who is probably capable of 40+. Centre is an obvious weakness, but Toronto has a solid #2 in Grabovski, and Bozak/Connolly who can platoon in the #1 position, and did so last year allowing the Leafs to be top 10 in the goalscoring department.

Then you look at the blueline, where your 2nd best defenceman is Carl Gunnarsson... who's great and all, but not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. He plays the role of a #2, but should probably be a #3/4 guy. You've got JML who could be anywhere between a #3-#5 depending on how he recovers from the concussion, and Gardiner/Franson/Komisarek who could be anywhere from #4-#6 guys.

In goal, you've got James Reimer, who as a rookie showed incredible promise prior to getting concussed.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Toronto is going to miss Phaneuf much more than getting an equivalent centre or goaltender is going to help them.

seanlinden is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.