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And we are locked out again (No Progress ,, Talks collapse)

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Old
10-01-2012, 11:45 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Bettman said going into the summer that they were willing to start talking a year ago, but the NHLPA wasn't. Some crap about wanting/needing the players to be informed and unified, yadda yadda, and they couldn't do that during the season. But, of course, they can remain informed and unified while playing overseas, collecting a paycheck. Bettman and the owners are really getting all the heat, but the NHLPA deserves a large portion of the blame.

50/50. Simple and easy. Why complicate it?
which was complete garbage. can you imagine, given the players' involvement, negotiations going on in the regular season? it would have been a ***** show.

wouldn't it have been lovely if, part way into the 9 game losing streak, the owners unleashed their initial offer?

if nothing else, the tenor from these negotiations has proven that it would have been brutal if they'd started a year ago.

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10-02-2012, 07:30 AM
  #102
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which was complete garbage. can you imagine, given the players' involvement, negotiations going on in the regular season? it would have been a ***** show.

wouldn't it have been lovely if, part way into the 9 game losing streak, the owners unleashed their initial offer?

if nothing else, the tenor from these negotiations has proven that it would have been brutal if they'd started a year ago.
Had the players gotten around to electing a head earlier, preliminary talks could have started last summer behind closed doors. Fehr has a history of meetings and negotiations while play was going on and the impact on his union was negligible. The players wouldn't have had to be involved with two experienced negotiators handling things.

We know Gary and Don can keep things quiet if need be had Fehr agreed to meet for informal talks. The players knew the owners weren't going to keep the CBA a long time before they elected Fehr. Both sides are very guilty of this mess.

I hope they can get closer to an agreement on how to calculate HRR today. Still hope for 82 games.


Last edited by hockeydoug: 10-02-2012 at 07:31 AM. Reason: typo correction
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10-02-2012, 01:14 PM
  #103
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No progress today.

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10-02-2012, 02:05 PM
  #104
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I don't want to see 82 games crammed into 4-5 months. Just scrap what needs to be scrapped. Hockey wasn't meant to be played any more often than it is in the NHL. Guys will be dropping like flies, a simple 2-3 week injury that could otherwise be overcome will now lead to a top guy missing 12 games, maybe more, because you don't want to throw him into playing a back to back every week and minimal time off. It just wouldn't work. Not to mention, backup goalies go from just important to very, very important and we suck there.

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10-02-2012, 08:01 PM
  #105
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Year long lockout here we come. I think this goes at least 1 year.

Sadly the NHLPA made a horrible mistake in hiring Fehr who lead the MLB into horrible moves. He doesn't care about the sport of hockey or the NHL and only about what is best for him. He is leading the players down a horrible road that will cost them and the sports million on millions of dollars and he doesn't care at all.

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10-02-2012, 08:03 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I don't want to see 82 games crammed into 4-5 months. Just scrap what needs to be scrapped. Hockey wasn't meant to be played any more often than it is in the NHL. Guys will be dropping like flies, a simple 2-3 week injury that could otherwise be overcome will now lead to a top guy missing 12 games, maybe more, because you don't want to throw him into playing a back to back every week and minimal time off. It just wouldn't work. Not to mention, backup goalies go from just important to very, very important and we suck there.
While I'm not as worried about Emery, I don't want to see a crazy compressed schedule either.

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10-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Year long lockout here we come. I think this goes at least 1 year.

Sadly the NHLPA made a horrible mistake in hiring Fehr who lead the MLB into horrible moves. He doesn't care about the sport of hockey or the NHL and only about what is best for him. He is leading the players down a horrible road that will cost them and the sports million on millions of dollars and he doesn't care at all.
Considering the players have already wasted a year only to cave in to what the NHL wanted before (and pretty recently, at that), I think it's safe to assume no matter who the NHLPA hired to head their association, they'd be going down a tough road.

Also, there's not chance the NHL tries to compact an 82 schedule into 4 or 5 months if a deal is signed with that much time in the season. We may see a slightly compacted schedule, but it won't be that ridiculous.

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10-02-2012, 08:58 PM
  #108
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Definitely don't see the season starting anytime soon. Very disappointing. $100 million already lost in PRESEASON. I still say some money is better then no money on the owners part, they should've just played with the current CBA.

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10-02-2012, 10:18 PM
  #109
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Definitely don't see the season starting anytime soon. Very disappointing. $100 million already lost in PRESEASON. I still say some money is better then no money on the owners part, they should've just played with the current CBA.
No incentive for the owners do to that if they're just throwing $10m down the hole.

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10-03-2012, 06:32 AM
  #110
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The articles by Friedman and Lebrun yesterday paint a gloomy picture. They also portray Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs in a bad light.

Quote:
If this does go into December, many of them won't be happy with either the commissioner or Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, who is another huge obstacle.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...landmines.html
Quote:
Meanwhile, bloodthirsty owners like Jeremy Jacobs want their pound of flesh right off the top from the players, so 53 percent (down from the current 57 percent) would not be even close to what his group would agree to in Year 1.
For once, wouldnít it be refreshing to see some of those moderate owners who donít see the world the same way a hawk like Jacobs does stand up and espouse compromise? Where is their voice in all this?

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...a-negotiations
There was also a post about Jacobs by a Bruins fan on ****** yesterday

http://www.***********/r/hockey/comme...t_the_lockout/

I am curious to know more about Jacobs, his role in the last lockout and his association with Dollar Bill Wirtz? All I know so far is the unusual bets that have been mentioned in a Jacobs' thread on bruins board and that Jacobs' company operates the concession stands at United Center.

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10-03-2012, 07:29 AM
  #111
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Sadly, I must agree with Sir Psycho T.

Fehr showed some emotion yesterday as he has (finally) come to the realization that the owners are not going to cave. Well duh! This is Goodenow all over again - the naÔve players are being led down the garden path.

Iím not saying the owners donít take part of the blame but they hold all the cards, just like 2004. It's only a matter of time before the players fold and Fehr's bluff gets called out. If I were Fehr Iíd try and swing a deal for what the owners have proposed, only try and shorten the contract term to say 2 or 3 yearsÖ. And with the understanding that further negotiation will resume with 1 year left in that term. Not sure if that is doable in the owners eyes, but proposing anything is better than playing this poker game with a losing hand.

.

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10-03-2012, 07:30 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
and that Jacobs' company operates the concession stands at United Center.
Not true.


http://www.unitedcenter.com/unitedce...ationsAtoZ.asp

Quote:
Concessions
There are 46 permanent concessions stands throughout the arena which are operated by Levy Restaurants.
The Jacobs family owns Delaware North Co (SportsService), which operates at USCF (in the 100 and 500 levels, Levy runs the premium areas), and I'm pretty sure at Soldier and Wrigley.


The United Center's had been done by Bismarck Enterprises, which Peter Wirtz had founded. After Bill's death and the Rocky-Peter divorce, they left the concession business .

http://www.bismarckenterprises.com/


Last edited by IU Hawks fan: 10-03-2012 at 07:38 AM.
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10-03-2012, 07:46 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Not true.


http://www.unitedcenter.com/unitedce...ationsAtoZ.asp



The Jacobs family owns Delaware North Co (SportsService), which operates at USCF (in the 100 and 500 levels, Levy runs the premium areas), and I'm pretty sure at Soldier and Wrigley.


The United Center's had been done by Bismarck Enterprises, which Peter Wirtz had founded. After Bill's death and the Rocky-Peter divorce, they left the concession business .

http://www.bismarckenterprises.com/
My bad. I thought I had read something along those lines in one of the previous threads here.


Last edited by RedBaronIndian: 10-03-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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10-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #114
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year long lockout

season will start somewhere between thanksgiving and new years day. Just wait until the MLB season is over and see how fast the negotiation will come to an end... but hey, this was thought about for months now

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10-03-2012, 05:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
year long lockout

season will start somewhere between thanksgiving and new years day. Just wait until the MLB season is over and see how fast the negotiation will come to an end... but hey, this was thought about for months now


You mean... hopefully. Laugh it off but you may recall that many of us thought the same thing in 2004 and that they couldn't possibly cancel the season ... the rest is history.

Present day Fehr seems to be just as stubborn as Goodenow was then. His ego, definitely larger. It will be the players that ends this. Not Fehr and not the owners.

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10-03-2012, 05:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Sadly, I must agree with Sir Psycho T.

Fehr showed some emotion yesterday as he has (finally) come to the realization that the owners are not going to cave. Well duh! This is Goodenow all over again - the naÔve players are being led down the garden path.

Iím not saying the owners donít take part of the blame but they hold all the cards, just like 2004. It's only a matter of time before the players fold and Fehr's bluff gets called out. If I were Fehr Iíd try and swing a deal for what the owners have proposed, only try and shorten the contract term to say 2 or 3 yearsÖ. And with the understanding that further negotiation will resume with 1 year left in that term. Not sure if that is doable in the owners eyes, but proposing anything is better than playing this poker game with a losing hand.

.
Nothing Fehr said yesterday was any different from what he's been saying all summer. Paraphrasing: "This is a lockout of choice", been saying it all summer. "Progress is giving the owners what they want", again, been saying it throughout the summer.

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10-03-2012, 09:46 PM
  #117
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People bashing Fehr, he is merely representation for the players. His job is to get them the best possible deal & the players still have a say. To head the negotiation process but he does not have the final word.

Owners know their leverage is players missing pay checks. They are prepared to miss a chunk of the season to accomplish their goals.

What sucks is nobody seems to care except hard core fans. When the NFL was at this point last year there was external pressure in the U.S. to get a deal done, Obama even spoke out. I wish the government would threaten them with anit-trust to get both sides moving.

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10-03-2012, 10:28 PM
  #118
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What sucks is nobody seems to care except hard core fans. When the NFL was at this point last year there was external pressure in the U.S. to get a deal done, Obama even spoke out. I wish the government would threaten them with anit-trust to get both sides moving.

I'm a hard core Hawks fan and I barely care... yet. I know they'll be back at some point and the problem that the NHL faces at this time of year is all the other options that people have.

I've got the NFL, I live in a Big Ten city - college football, college hockey about to start, MLB playoffs are just about to start. My kid's hockey season is about to start and then there's hunting and the holidays just around the corner. And don't forget the Hobbit movie in December.

Add all of that to the Hawks miserable non offseason of getting nothing done and I'm not overly excited or anxious for the season to start anyway. I can wait.

As for the national media or politicians... seriously? Niche sport. NEVER gonna happen.

Check back in January and I'll be gripping.


PS - Now if I thought we were poised for another Cup, I might feel differently, but we're not. We're the same team as last year and that's not gonna get it done.

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10-04-2012, 12:35 AM
  #119
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You mean... hopefully. Laugh it off but you may recall that many of us thought the same thing in 2004 and that they couldn't possibly cancel the season ... the rest is history.

Present day Fehr seems to be just as stubborn as Goodenow was then. His ego, definitely larger. It will be the players that ends this. Not Fehr and not the owners.
you don't think that HRR sharing and a salary rollback is comparable to a salary Cap with HRR sharing going down AND a rollback?

That we have a lockout now is not a shock...

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10-04-2012, 03:55 PM
  #120
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I'm a hard core Hawks fan and I barely care... yet. I know they'll be back at some point and the problem that the NHL faces at this time of year is all the other options that people have.

I've got the NFL, I live in a Big Ten city - college football, college hockey about to start, MLB playoffs are just about to start. My kid's hockey season is about to start and then there's hunting and the holidays just around the corner. And don't forget the Hobbit movie in December.

Add all of that to the Hawks miserable non offseason of getting nothing done and I'm not overly excited or anxious for the season to start anyway. I can wait.

As for the national media or politicians... seriously? Niche sport. NEVER gonna happen.

Check back in January and I'll be gripping.


PS - Now if I thought we were poised for another Cup, I might feel differently, but we're not. We're the same team as last year and that's not gonna get it done.
I'm sorry but saying you're a hard core Hawks fan & you barely care in the same sentence doesn't add up. Hawks are my favorite team to watch and attend games. NHL is my favorite sport to watch other than Football. The only reason I watch NFL teams other than the Bears is fantasy. The "Hawks didn't do enough in the offseason" excuse is lame. If Kane, Hossa, Toews, Sharp, Keith, Saad and Teevo don't get you excited then you will never be hard core. Stating that the team has to be poised for another cup run reeks of bandwagon.

I have attended the 1st preseason and 1st regular season game the past four years. So yeah, now I feel like I'm missing out. People don't tend to post on this board unless their passionate about Hockey.

Yes, there is other things to pull your interest. I could care less about the Bulls and Football is only Sunday. Thursday night games have been pretty crappy.


Last edited by HawksFan74: 10-04-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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10-04-2012, 04:45 PM
  #121
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10-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #122
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NHL is my favorite sport to watch other than Football. .



Are you kidding us? Only in America would you hear that statement!

Take away the betting and American football wouldn't be nearly as popular.

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10-04-2012, 05:13 PM
  #123
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you don't think that HRR sharing and a salary rollback is comparable to a salary Cap with HRR sharing going down AND a rollback?

That we have a lockout now is not a shock...
I don't get your point. How's that going to translate into a short lockout? Right now it appears that both sides are miles apart - negotiations can't even get off the ground. If the Winter Classic gets cancelled, the season is likely lost.

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10-04-2012, 05:36 PM
  #124
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Are you kidding us? Only in America would you hear that statement!

Take away the betting and American football wouldn't be nearly as popular.
NFL is popular for two reasons aside from the product on the field. Gambling and Fantasy Football. Do not underestimate the popularity of FF. Sprint entered in to a 600 million dollar deal with the NFL to broadcast FF stats. It's insane. 2 Billion is spent on fantasy sports by consumers.

To the previous point. There are plenty of alternatives in the states and most people simply don't care.

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10-04-2012, 05:47 PM
  #125
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NFL is popular for two reasons aside from the product on the field. Gambling and Fantasy Football. Do not underestimate the popularity of FF. Sprint entered in to a 600 million dollar deal with the NFL to broadcast FF stats. It's insane. 2 Billion is spent on fantasy sports by consumers.

To the previous point. There are plenty of alternatives in the states and most people simply don't care.
I hear ya. Hence, lies the huge problem with today's NHL. Bettman needs to abandon his fantasy of successful hockey in Southern US. I live near TO and this area could easily support 3 NHL teams all by itself. (Toronto, Hamilton and Waterloo). Quebec could support another team and likely the Maritimes as well.

Edit:

I see today the NHL has cancelled the first 84 games... and so it begins. What a friggen joke this league has turned into.


Last edited by BobbyJet: 10-04-2012 at 06:09 PM. Reason: there goes the first 84 games
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