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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-02-2012, 12:01 AM
  #26
Hoogaar23
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Imagine all the ******** if they just said screw it, we'll just go by last year's standings. I don't think I would leave HFboards for a week. We would be 2nd, so one of Mackinnon or Seth Jones? Sure.

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10-02-2012, 12:11 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I guess I should explain the reasons for my extreme pessimism. As Hoogaar23 pointed out, this is a battle of egos between two meglomaniacs. Neither of them will want to give an inch because of how it might affect their legacies. Then we add in the fact that neither of those two guys are hockey fans, so missing games/seasons isn't a huge deal for them. And finally, neither of them are likely to be replaced any time soon. That spells disaster to me.

I really hope I am wrong, but right now, I'd be surprised if we saw NHL hockey this season.
So you believe that Bettman's ego is greater than the opinions of the 30 owners who happen to be his employers? You believe that the 30 individuals who have accumulated the necessary wealth via sound business abilities will just sit back as wallflowers and watch Bettman use his "ego" to dictate the outcome of the lockout?

Or perhaps Bettman is actually doing his job as representative of the owners and speaking the collective minds of the 30 ownership groups...

I have a hard time believing that 30 multi-millionaires/billionaires stand by passively as Bettman plays a game of chicken with their personal investments. That doesn't seem to be the model taken by any of the owners when they were accruing the necessary wealth to become NHL owners...

But perhaps you are correct and Bettman has 30 comprimising photos that ensure the ownership group allows him to manipulate the negotiations negatively because he is "not a fan of hockey".

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Old
10-02-2012, 12:16 AM
  #28
402
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I did a little digging
the lockout officially ended July 22 2005, after both the NHL owners and players ratified the CBA
The 2005 draft was held on July 30-31
So its safe to assume no draft until the lockout ends

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Old
10-02-2012, 12:18 AM
  #29
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10-02-2012, 12:25 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
all by his lonesome, right? Good edit...although you should have done up Fehr as the Pied Piper...


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Old
10-02-2012, 12:33 AM
  #31
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im going with Stauffer's DEC prediction

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Old
10-02-2012, 01:53 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
So you believe that Bettman's ego is greater than the opinions of the 30 owners who happen to be his employers? You believe that the 30 individuals who have accumulated the necessary wealth via sound business abilities will just sit back as wallflowers and watch Bettman use his "ego" to dictate the outcome of the lockout?

Or perhaps Bettman is actually doing his job as representative of the owners and speaking the collective minds of the 30 ownership groups...

I have a hard time believing that 30 multi-millionaires/billionaires stand by passively as Bettman plays a game of chicken with their personal investments. That doesn't seem to be the model taken by any of the owners when they were accruing the necessary wealth to become NHL owners...

But perhaps you are correct and Bettman has 30 comprimising photos that ensure the ownership group allows him to manipulate the negotiations negatively because he is "not a fan of hockey".
Bettman doesn't need the consent of the owners. His contract states he has authority over CBA negotiations. Sure they can fire him, but do you see that happening any time soon?

And we have to remember that most of these teams aren't huge money makers for their owners. Many are better off with no season than with one. The owners have other, better sources of income that they can rely on. So there isn't a huge incentive for a push from the owners to end this, even if they did disagree with Bettman's tactics.

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10-02-2012, 08:33 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 402 View Post
Are 24 teams actually not making a profit i thought it was more like 15-20, regardless i think if the pa was about to cave we wouldnt know it in front of the media the nhl and the nhlpa have seem to have two objectives to show unity and how strong they are and how much they believe in their leaders (fehr/bettman), and to win the support of fans by blaming each other
A curious question, considering how helpless the fans actually are in this situation...

But what is the point of winning fan support? It's not like we're going to vote on who wins the lockout, we have no say in it whatsoever. They're going to make money off us either way, regardless of our personal opinions.

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Old
10-02-2012, 09:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
We stand a better chance of getting Jones or MacKinnon if we play the season. No season means we have the worst odds at the 1st pick. Assuming they'd do a Crosby like lottery again.Actually, if the lockout is still ongoing by the end of next June, could they even have a draft? Aren't the draft rules part of the CBA?
Actually, we'd still be in the middle group with "two balls" so a reasonable chance at 1st overall.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401

I was about to ask how Pittsburg ended up with three balls, having drafted Fleury 1st overall two seasons earlier (which should have put them in the "2 ball" camp)... but a quick google brought me back to HF where this question has already been answered... they traded up from 3 to 1 to get Fleury, so since they had spent assets they "didn't have" the first overall in the view of the NHL.

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Old
10-02-2012, 09:59 AM
  #35
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There are 13 people who think that the season will start in October or November. How is that possible? They aren't even in the same ballpark and it's already October 2nd. They aren't even discussing core economic issues.

I'm almost positive at this point that the whole season is toast, quite possibly more.
It's pretty obvious IMO that the players have been planning this ever since Fehr was hired, it's all about them trying to stand up to the "bully" in the owners by showing them that what happened under Goodenow's regime won't happen again and with Fehr in charge and having the players completely brainwashed, i don't see them caving for a loooooong time. I think this is more about the players wanting to "win" than any financial gain although i guess the two go hand in hand..

Add in the fact that there is no chance that the owners cave because lets face it, they can afford to lose a season or more a lot more than the players can, so they will never cave, the ball is completely in the players' court IMO.

Plus, with this supposed talk of progress on small issues over the weekend, we have this.....

Quote:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...landmines.html

If you have any doubt what a stalemate the NHL lockout has become, consider this: talks took a step backward last weekend because the league and the NHL Players' Association could not agree on who should pay for a) an extra trainer on the road and b) for each player to have his own hotel room.

Players felt teams should pay for both, especially since an extra trainer is a safety issue. Apparently, some teams only travel with one. As for single rooms, well, they've been fighting for that since Matt Stajan made Joe Nieuwendyk watch The Fifth Wheel. Right now, you can be solitary if you've played 600 NHL games.

The league, of course, feels otherwise, that these are added costs and should come out of hockey related revenue. There's no consensus and everybody leaves grumbling.
If they can't agree on minor issues like that then there really is little hope that they resolve any large issues anytime soon. Hell, they won't even discuss the core economic issues and we're already in October and furthermore, they still haven't even defined HRR yet so i just don't see any way that they resolve all these issues in the next few months and quite frankly, i don't think that either side really cares all that much. It's quite sad actually and we fans deserve a whole lot better than this.


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Old
10-02-2012, 10:12 AM
  #36
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I think we'll lose the season and maybe more. I don't see the owners backing down from a demand of at least a 50/50 split. The players will have to back down first and not the league. It may take a lost season or more to convince them. At the end of the day, we might see a fractured NHLPA with lower-salary players asking themselves if it was worth the entire year(s) of income they just lost. Hell, some higher-salary players might ask themselves the same question.

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10-02-2012, 10:30 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Actually, we'd still be in the middle group with "two balls" so a reasonable chance at 1st overall.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401

I was about to ask how Pittsburg ended up with three balls, having drafted Fleury 1st overall two seasons earlier (which should have put them in the "2 ball" camp)... but a quick google brought me back to HF where this question has already been answered... they traded up from 3 to 1 to get Fleury, so since they had spent assets they "didn't have" the first overall in the view of the NHL.
Why would we have 2 balls? Last time they removed a ball for each year a team made the playoffs or was given the 1st overall. Hall, RNH, and Yakupov should give us only one ball.

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10-02-2012, 10:33 AM
  #38
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if we do not have a deal in place by Christmas the season is done

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10-02-2012, 10:39 AM
  #39
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Why would we have 2 balls? Last time they removed a ball for each year a team made the playoffs or was given the 1st overall. Hall, RNH, and Yakupov should give us only one ball.
You're correct sir. It's only 1 for the Oilers lumped in with a bunch of other teams unless they change the lottery system.
The most disappointing part of a full season lockout amongst many other things is that the Oilers will likely get a low 1st round pick in a draft with a bunch of high end 2 way centers at the top of the draft. I was looking forward to the Oilers improving this season and still having a shot at somebody like Lazar at 8-10 although it seems that he will be out of reach at that spot anyway if he continues this level of play.

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:41 AM
  #40
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I didn't think season was done until I saw Elliott's report regarding the trainer & hotel room issue.

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:07 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
if we do not have a deal in place by Christmas the season is done
Now this is a statement I do agree with. If a deal isn't close and the league cancels the winter classic that's the time I'll believe this season is cancelled. At this point in time I'm still pretty hopeful we will see hockey around January

A few people here actually see this going more then one season? At this point in time I find it quite hard to believe the pa or NHL or that matter would extend this lockout past September 1013 also note that a lockout means no draft in the event the lockout continues into the summer 2013 (I don't think it will) no draft will be held until the lockout is resolved

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10-02-2012, 02:40 PM
  #42
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If the whole season is cancelled, I'm done with the NHL. **** those greedy players and owners.

I can't stand greedy people. I can't stand the billionaires who sit in their yacht and smoke their cuban cigars. I can't stand the rich people who sit their while the working class do the dirty work but the rich take the all the credit. I hate the spoiled millionaire players that can't take a paycut to their already loaded bank account. I hate how the snakes (daly and bettman) ran the sport of hockey into the ground. I hate that snake Fehr. I hope they all go to hell.

End Rant.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:46 PM
  #43
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I think the NHL is waiting for the players to start missing paycheques to give them some leverage. So sadly I think that means no "real" negotiations until the eve of Oct. 11th or thereafter. Then they will actually try to negotiate. My hope is if there's some freaking sanity here, then American Thanksgiving (late November) should be where a deal is struck at the latest.

If they cancel the whole season -- honestly, I'm only coming back as an Oilers fan just because of how bad we've been for so long that we deserve to watch all this young talent finally. They are lucky that they have us.

But if I was a Canucks, Flames, Hawks, Red Wings, Habs, Leafs, Flyers, etc. etc. etc. fan ... I would boycott to be honest. Two full seasons lost since 2004 is freaking ridiculous. If I was a casual fan in the US I'd give up on the NHL entirely and go watch NBA or something else.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:51 PM
  #44
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TBH, the main reason why I don't think the lockout is gonna last a whole season is because of the economics compared to the 2004 lockout.

THe last lockout was about the health of the league and it needed a whole new structure. The owners wanted it but the players refused and fans stood by the owners during this lockout and accepted a lost season for the long term benefit of the league.

This lockout is all about egos wanting a bigger share of the 3.3 billion dollar revenue pie. If we happen to lose a season because of that...I'm done with the NHL.

I can't support a league that values money over the game itelf.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:59 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I guess I should explain the reasons for my extreme pessimism. As Hoogaar23 pointed out, this is a battle of egos between two meglomaniacs. Neither of them will want to give an inch because of how it might affect their legacies.
Totally 100% wrong.

You have oversimplified this battle into a battle between egos. It is not. The financial reasons are real and you seem to be ignoring that.

Do you really think the owners will want to continue another 7 year CBA where they continue to lose money? What business does that?

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10-02-2012, 04:09 PM
  #46
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Totally 100% wrong.

You have oversimplified this battle into a battle between egos. It is not. The financial reasons are real and you seem to be ignoring that.

Do you really think the owners will want to continue another 7 year CBA where they continue to lose money? What business does that?
Really? Can you prove that. Because I recall the league making record profit last year. And the NHL being at an all-time high.

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Old
10-02-2012, 04:22 PM
  #47
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in the NBA, players said they'd never take 50% of BRI (basketball related income)

Quote:
Hunter was unwilling "to go a penny below 52 [percent]
this was in October

by December, they had close to a 50-50 split

Quote:
The players will receive 51.2 percent of BRI in 2011–12, with a 49-to-51 band in subsequent years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_lockout

I think we're playing by January

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10-02-2012, 05:08 PM
  #48
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Was the NBAPA originally asking for a number or a percentage?

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:01 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
You're correct sir. It's only 1 for the Oilers lumped in with a bunch of other teams unless they change the lottery system.
The most disappointing part of a full season lockout amongst many other things is that the Oilers will likely get a low 1st round pick in a draft with a bunch of high end 2 way centers at the top of the draft. I was looking forward to the Oilers improving this season and still having a shot at somebody like Lazar at 8-10 although it seems that he will be out of reach at that spot anyway if he continues this level of play.
my thoughts exactly, what a bummer

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:19 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
Are 24 teams actually not making a profit i thought it was more like 15-20, regardless i think if the pa was about to cave we wouldnt know it in front of the media the nhl and the nhlpa have seem to have two objectives to show unity and how strong they are and how much they believe in their leaders (fehr/bettman), and to win the support of fans by blaming each other
We will know when the NHLPA is cracking at the seams.

The players will be loose lipping it.

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