HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix LXII: Abandon Hope all Ye Who Enter Here

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-01-2012, 08:14 PM
  #226
JAX
Registered User
 
JAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Country: Canada
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotaf7 View Post
Survey the NHLPA ,see what they have to say about a team in Glendale!
At this point what the PA thinks to me is rubbish, they seem to be a brainwashed bunch of cattle. I'm sorry for flamming but how can these guys be happy on what their PA leadership has done to get them playing hockey again?

JAX is offline  
Old
10-01-2012, 09:43 PM
  #227
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAX View Post
At this point what the PA thinks to me is rubbish, they seem to be a brainwashed bunch of cattle. I'm sorry for flamming but how can these guys be happy on what their PA leadership has done to get them playing hockey again?
Oh please, the PA didn't walkout. Please go blame mr. Lockout.

Confucius is offline  
Old
10-01-2012, 11:20 PM
  #228
Predatorbill
Registered User
 
Predatorbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 919
vCash: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Oh please, the PA didn't walkout. Please go blame mr. Lockout.
IMO the PA wanted to be locked out. Fehr knew what he was doing.

Predatorbill is offline  
Old
10-01-2012, 11:36 PM
  #229
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 25,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
IMO the PA wanted to be locked out. Fehr knew what he was doing.
... it was certainly left to percolate for far too long, the league serving notice they wouldnt be playing the 12-13 season under the current CBA with any extensions while negotiations were ongoing this past spring. The PA genuinely shocked to receive the NHL's opening "offer" of a rollback of the magnitude that it was/is. And so here we are. Theoretically, this could be either the final nail in the coffin for the Coyotes, or alternatively, a blessing in disguise. Doesnt seem to be any middle ground.

Killion is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 12:11 AM
  #230
CasualFan
Tortious Beadicus
 
CasualFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Has the league or COG confirmed the lease expired?
If it has expired it is an attempt by the league to pressure the COG into signing off on the lease.
Wouldn't the expiration date be meaningless? COG and NHL are the only parties to the agreement, no? Unless they are adversarial, can't the lease lapse indefinitely without penalty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
Well there was a brief interlude with the unsuccessful attempt to bring minor league hockey to Thunder Bay.
A Glendale visionary, vision is scary!

CasualFan is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 12:22 AM
  #231
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
IMO the PA wanted to be locked out. Fehr knew what he was doing.
He certainly seems to have caught the owners by surprise. Sure doesn't seem like they were expecting the PA to go to the wall, again.

 
Old
10-02-2012, 12:23 AM
  #232
madhi19
Just the tip!
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Wouldn't the expiration date be meaningless? COG and NHL are the only parties to the agreement, no? Unless they are adversarial, can't the lease lapse indefinitely without penalty?
Well the Coyotes still has staff and office space off course with the lockout maybe some of them have been let go. If the lease lapse Glendale could put the coyotes hardware belonging to the NHL by the side of the road and change the locks on the building. Would that not be ironic the NHL locked out of Jobing.com Arena! loll

madhi19 is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 08:39 AM
  #233
JF55JF
Registered User
 
JF55JF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAX View Post
Hopefully the Phoenix debacle will go on for years to come....BTW if you surveyed 10 poeple how many poeple do you think would say Coyotes should stay in Phoenix?
If they are sane people with knowledge of the situation and cost it would be 0.
If it is random hockey fans it would be 1-2
If it was random people in Arizona you'd get a lot of blank stares and "Well Coyotes are native to the Arizona region" (Actually I take this back. The whole sale and non sale has at least brought publicity to the Coyotes. Three years ago there were less people who knew about the NHL or the Coyotes organization in Arizona)

But not to be too hard on Coyote fans. It really must suck being in turmoil for this long. I feel for them, but in the larger picture I don't believe Arizona is viable as a strong market. I also feel for the people of Glendale who have to live with the mistakes of the council in years past and their carefree spending. There are some serious issues arising by the spending of years past, and if the Yotes stay or go, there are problems in the future for Glendale and their taxpayers.

JF55JF is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 09:51 AM
  #234
checkerdome
Registered User
 
checkerdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...tes_hrr_nhlpa/

Glendale and the NHLPA

checkerdome is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 10:09 AM
  #235
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 7,491
vCash: 500
^^^^

So let's call the Coyotes what they are... " low hanging fruit "

Now if the goal of the NHL is to get a new CBA that would allow the lowest of the "low hanging fruit" to be financially viable on it's own without a $324M subsidy... then we are never going to get a new CBA done, because quite frankly... the Coyotes will never be a financially viable team without a subsidy of some kind.

And if the NHLPA want the " low hanging fruit " moved to more fruitful markets thinking that they will get more revenue, that's all fine, except all you end up doing is making some other team become the unripe fruit on the tree. Someone will always be at the bottom.

Both sides need to give a bit so that the "low hanging fruit" can be made viable. But it is possible that no matter how much the players give ( in reduced salary ) or the owners give ( in more revenue sharing ) that some teams are just never going to work where they currently are.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 10:17 AM
  #236
manisback121
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,289
vCash: 500
If the low hanging bananas make money at the wawa and the prime bananas make money at whole foods, no one will care as long as the wawa bananas make money!

manisback121 is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 10:25 AM
  #237
Slashers98
Registered User
 
Slashers98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
The problem with that low-hanging fruit, is that it's a drag to the rest of the tree because it gets stuck in the soil...

Slashers98 is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 11:26 AM
  #238
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Wouldn't the expiration date be meaningless? COG and NHL are the only parties to the agreement, no? Unless they are adversarial, can't the lease lapse indefinitely without penalty?



A Glendale visionary, vision is scary!
So what exactly was the point of the COG extending the lease agreement on three separate occasions (June, July and August) if at the end of September they didn't even bother to do so? I mean they even went as far as to say these were 30 day renewals with an expiration date set at the last day of the month on four separate occasions.

sipowicz is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 11:37 AM
  #239
goyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
So what exactly was the point of the COG extending the lease agreement on three separate occasions (June, July and August) if at the end of September they didn't even bother to do so? I mean they even went as far as to say these were 30 day renewals with an expiration date set at the last day of the month on four separate occasions.
You are looking for logic where none exists.

goyotes is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 11:59 AM
  #240
NHLfan4life
Who is PKP???
 
NHLfan4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glendale
Country: United States
Posts: 688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
So what exactly was the point of the COG extending the lease agreement on three separate occasions (June, July and August) if at the end of September they didn't even bother to do so? I mean they even went as far as to say these were 30 day renewals with an expiration date set at the last day of the month on four separate occasions.
Maybe a formality or a poor attempt at PR?

NHLfan4life is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 12:13 PM
  #241
CHRDANHUTCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auburn, Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 15,984
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to CHRDANHUTCH Send a message via MSN to CHRDANHUTCH Send a message via Yahoo to CHRDANHUTCH
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
So what exactly was the point of the COG extending the lease agreement on three separate occasions (June, July and August) if at the end of September they didn't even bother to do so? I mean they even went as far as to say these were 30 day renewals with an expiration date set at the last day of the month on four separate occasions.
you're forgetting one thing: there was an active CBA then, now it's not, All of you are forgetting that the CBA takes precedence over each franchise, which in this case, means public knowledge over COG's lease w/ Jamison as well as any city budget vote, the NHL cannot approve and/or close said deal, if the lockout remains.

CHRDANHUTCH is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 02:13 PM
  #242
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
Quote:
So quick -- are the subsidies the NHL has received and that the new owner (and we say 'in theory' because, yanno, this is the Coyotes, so we'll believe it when we see it) will be getting hockey-related revenue, or not?

Is the money supposed to be used to fund the operating expenses of the hockey team? Or is it to cover the losses incurred by the arena?
The subsidy being offered to Hulsizer was clearly specified as including operating expenses for the Coyotes. It isn't specified as an eligible expense for Jamison, because it has been reconfigured to be simply an "Arena Management Fee".

But if it is at all relevant, then I think it would be hard to escape the fact that much of the $324 million goes straight to operating the Coyotes and are intended for that purpose. After all, owning the Coyotes is a clear condition of the lease, and the rationale used by the COG to commit to this contract without a competitive bidding process.

That being said, it is hard to imagine that the Coyotes won't vault past a few other shaky franchises with the sweetheart lease being offered. The $324 million is a pretty large commitment to supporting the team in Glendale.

Whileee is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 02:51 PM
  #243
calmdown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
you're forgetting one thing: there was an active CBA then, now it's not, All of you are forgetting that the CBA takes precedence over each franchise, which in this case, means public knowledge over COG's lease w/ Jamison as well as any city budget vote, the NHL cannot approve and/or close said deal, if the lockout remains.
A good point here CHRDNHUTCH! Is realy NHL unable to sign any contract while there is no CBA? If true, all the Yotes saga is on ice again Kind of story stuck in permafrost

calmdown is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 03:35 PM
  #244
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
you're forgetting one thing: there was an active CBA then, now it's not, All of you are forgetting that the CBA takes precedence over each franchise, which in this case, means public knowledge over COG's lease w/ Jamison as well as any city budget vote, the NHL cannot approve and/or close said deal, if the lockout remains.
No.

The CBA is only a labor agreement between the League/Clubs and the NHLPA/Players.

It has no impact on the ability of clubs to make other contractual agreements. Hell, the Ducks were sold from Disney to Samuelli during the last lockout (sales agreement signed 2/25/05, sale approved by BoG 6/16/05).

kdb209 is online now  
Old
10-02-2012, 04:47 PM
  #245
TheLegend
Home Sweet Home!
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Orbiting HFBoards
Country: United States
Posts: 4,657
vCash: 500
Skeete's presenting new AMF to council... total amount down to $320M from $324M. 20 year contract with one 5 year renewal.


Also.... as I called it.... front loading is off. Year 1 is now $11Mil instead of $17Mil.

Skeete has also added performance standards (40 hockey games + minimum 30 non-hockey events). Includes $60,000 per event penalty for games not played due to strikes or lockouts. Also provides for bonuses to Jamison if he exceeds performance.

Will try to get more details unless someone else beats me to it.

TheLegend is online now  
Old
10-02-2012, 05:14 PM
  #246
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Skeete's presenting new AMF to council... total amount down to $320M from $324M. 20 year contract with one 5 year renewal.


Also.... as I called it.... front loading is off. Year 1 is now $11Mil instead of $17Mil.

Skeete has also added performance standards (40 hockey games + minimum 30 non-hockey events). Includes $60,000 per event penalty for games not played due to strikes or lockouts. Also provides for bonuses to Jamison if he exceeds performance.

Will try to get more details unless someone else beats me to it.
Great deal for GJ and the JIG. Pay a $900 000 penalty and not book any additional events. Pay a $60 000 x 40 game fine = 2.4 million and collect a cool 7.7 million AMF for locking the building for a year for 2012-2013.

When the AMF is 18 million even a better deal for GJ and the JIG.

Skeete admitting the COG makes on average $60 000 per game in ticket taxes, concesssions etc. is pretty sad. What are the cost of policing the area on game day?

blues10 is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 05:31 PM
  #247
calmdown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
Realy good questions from Lieberman... Will we have answers?

calmdown is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 05:43 PM
  #248
TheLegend
Home Sweet Home!
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Orbiting HFBoards
Country: United States
Posts: 4,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdown View Post
Realy good questions from Lieberman... Will we have answers?
You mean the one where he implied you have to refinance interest on top of principal????

Lieberman is a buffoon.

TheLegend is online now  
Old
10-02-2012, 05:46 PM
  #249
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdown View Post
Realy good questions from Lieberman... Will we have answers?
Certainly were in calling out GJ's investor. They are investing $320 million and potentially $340 million if GJ books 30 events a year and they have no idea who his investors are.

blues10 is offline  
Old
10-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #250
Slashers98
Registered User
 
Slashers98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Alvarez: Jamison took his time to review the agreement. He is not as stable as we would have wanted him to be.

Lieberman: I want to know who Jamison's partners and investors are? Is Leblanc an investor?

Why restructure a deal with Jamison when they don't even know where his money come from?

Slashers98 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.