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So... No Extension for Edler..?

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Old
10-02-2012, 07:30 AM
  #326
LiveeviL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Would you rather have two Edlers, or one Weber? Me, I'd take one Weber.
I would easily have the Edler twins on the PP with the Sedin twins!

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10-02-2012, 10:12 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Would you rather have two Edlers, or one Weber? Me, I'd take one Weber.
How does your hypothetical situation relate to real-life?

FYI, I would take one Weber over two of many defensemen in this league, but it doesn't neccessarily mean those defensemen are only worth half of what Weber is making. That's not how the market works.

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10-02-2012, 10:57 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
How does your hypothetical situation relate to real-life?

FYI, I would take one Weber over two of many defensemen in this league, but it doesn't neccessarily mean those defensemen are only worth half of what Weber is making. That's not how the market works.
Perhaps a better question is: Would you rather have one Luongo and one Edler, or one Dion Phaneuf?

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10-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Perhaps a better question is: Would you rather have one Luongo and one Edler, or one Dion Phaneuf?
What? What does Luongo have to do with this?

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10-02-2012, 12:54 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
That's not what I said.

2 million is a pretty substantial difference, and I think that reflects the difference in skills between Edler and the other two defenseman
If Edler made $2M less a year than Weber (never mind the absurd term of Weber's deal) it would be a 35% difference in salary, I amnot sure what people don't understand about that.


Hey kids, omg, what if WEBER stops producing. He's signed forever. Remember Redden? Although at least Weber plays a vital role in his teams' playoff success. Amirite?

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10-02-2012, 12:55 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What? What does Luongo have to do with this?
Perhaps you should be questioning the fictional Edler?

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10-02-2012, 12:56 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
How does your hypothetical situation relate to real-life?

FYI, I would take one Weber over two of many defensemen in this league, but it doesn't neccessarily mean those defensemen are only worth half of what Weber is making. That's not how the market works.
I would take 1 Weber over 6 Aaron Romes.

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10-02-2012, 01:02 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I would take 1 Weber over 6 Aaron Romes.
I see your 6 Aaron Rome's and raise you 1000 Andrew Alberts.

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10-02-2012, 01:12 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Perhaps you should be questioning the fictional Edler?
I am so confused right now.

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Old
10-02-2012, 01:18 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
I see your 6 Aaron Rome's and raise you 1000 Andrew Alberts.
Obviously you do not understand the salary cap or NHL roster restrictions.

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10-02-2012, 01:44 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
If Edler made $2M less a year than Weber (never mind the absurd term of Weber's deal) it would be a 35% difference in salary, I amnot sure what people don't understand about that.
2m is not 35% of 7.8m.

Edler is much closer to Garrison than Weber, we should be talking about that comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Hey kids, omg, what if WEBER stops producing. He's signed forever. Remember Redden? Although at least Weber plays a vital role in his teams' playoff success. Amirite?
Players can regress at any time, you just hope that if they do you aren't also paying them for potential they never reached.

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10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
2m is not 35% of 7.8m.

Edler is much closer to Garrison than Weber, we should be talking about that comparison.
2 million of 5.8 million is 35%. If we spend 35% more, do we get 35% increase in production?

Edler at 5.8 is closer to Garrison than he is to Weber still. And there is no comparison here. They're different players, but I know you like to use non-comparables because the actual comparisons don't suit your argument.

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10-02-2012, 02:07 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
They're different players, but I know you like to use non-comparables because the actual comparisons don't suit your argument.
It'll be interesting to see how Garrison's point totals are affected by playing with the Canucks. Besides, you have to compare more than just the 50 points, that seems to be the only thing that matters to Canuck fans when it comes to Edler.

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10-02-2012, 02:17 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Besides, you have to compare more than just the 50 points, that seems to be the only thing that matters to Canuck fans when it comes to Edler.
And you keep avoiding the fact that point total for offensive d-men (and for forwards) plays a massive role in any contract negotiations. It's the accepted benchmark

So what's a better comparison for Edler? Hamhuis/Bieksa/Garrison or Wisniewski/Enstrom?

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10-02-2012, 02:20 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
It'll be interesting to see how Garrison's point totals are affected by playing with the Canucks. Besides, you have to compare more than just the 50 points, that seems to be the only thing that matters to Canuck fans when it comes to Edler.
When it came to justifying trading a 20 goal (ish) scoring rookie center man for a 4th line rookie, several members ignored the point total and instead vilified Hodgson for receiving sheltered minutes and having underwhelming CORSI and possession stats. Yet when it comes time to talk about Edler, those advanced stats don't matter and its all about the points? I just don't get it.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:40 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
When it came to justifying trading a 20 goal (ish) scoring rookie center man for a 4th line rookie, several members ignored the point total and instead vilified Hodgson for receiving sheltered minutes and having underwhelming CORSI and possession stats. Yet when it comes time to talk about Edler, those advanced stats don't matter and its all about the points? I just don't get it.
You're right, it is absolutely this black and white.

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10-02-2012, 02:51 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
When it came to justifying trading a 20 goal (ish) scoring rookie center man for a 4th line rookie, several members ignored the point total and instead vilified Hodgson for receiving sheltered minutes and having underwhelming CORSI and possession stats. Yet when it comes time to talk about Edler, those advanced stats don't matter and its all about the points? I just don't get it.
I'm sure you've never been a little hypocritical on here


Has Edler been hounding the team to play top minutes like a certain 20ish goal scoring rookie's camp was when putting up bad CORSI and possession stats?

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10-02-2012, 02:58 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
So what's a better comparison for Edler? Hamhuis/Bieksa/Garrison or Wisniewski/Enstrom?
I don't feel like the 50 Edler put up is the same as the 50 those other guys put up. Playing on the Canucks has a positive impact on defensemen's point totals. Our defensemen are expected to support the rush and we are amongst the most pinch heavy teams in the league. Edler also benefits from playing with elite players on the PP. I don't mean for that to sound like I'm slagging Edler and I'm definitely not saying that he isn't a good player, he is. When he's going right, he has stretches where he puts up points at a 60 point clip, that's when he's putting up points like a 5.5m dollar defensemen imo. Unfortunately, he hasn't done it consistently. I don't think there is anything wrong with challenging him to put it all together this season to earn that big payday. Honestly, with Garrison as partner, I think he has a great year.

Beyond that, the Wis contract was a desperate move by a desperate team. Enstrom had a good year at both ends of the rink. Edler doesn't usually get the tough assignments like Enstrom does, a 5.5m dollar defensemen should be able to come out ahead against that competition.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-02-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old
10-02-2012, 03:25 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What? What does Luongo have to do with this?
Would you trade: Luongo and Edler for Phaneuf?

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:28 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Would you trade: Luongo and Edler for Phaneuf?
Hell no.

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10-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #346
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Presumably we let Ehrhoff walk so that signings like Edler's wouldn't break the bank when we reup his contract.

If Edler walks, then Gillis' cap plan was a total failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Would you trade: Luongo and Edler for Phaneuf?
Is this a trick question? No, and to use hf's favorite sentence... it's not even close.

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Old
10-02-2012, 04:05 PM
  #347
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Presumably we let Ehrhoff walk so that signings like Edler's wouldn't break the bank when we reup his contract.

If Edler walks, then Gillis' cap plan was a total failure.
We have great contracts up and down the lineup, Gillis cap plan has been a great success.

If we sign Ehrhoff for 5.5m then we don't get Garrison for 4.6m, and Garrison might turn out to be the better player.

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10-02-2012, 04:20 PM
  #348
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Signing him for 5.5 or less is not a problem IMO. He is the only reliable point producer on the back end, and the only defencemen we have that can manufacture offence on his own ( No Bieksa doesn't have his vision or passing).

If he is stubborn and wants more, sign him to a contract that doesn't have a NTC and trade him for something of worth. There will be teams lining up for his services, and a pretty hefty return could be had.

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10-02-2012, 04:23 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
We have great contracts up and down the lineup, Gillis cap plan has been a great success.

If we sign Ehrhoff for 5.5m then we don't get Garrison for 4.6m, and Garrison might turn out to be the better player.

I was kind of musing on this the other day: Which will help this team more: Garrison or Ehrhoff? Essentially, this is the swap.


We know that when Edler had a legit right-side partner in Ehrhoff, both excelled offensively. But perhaps Garrison will provide more balance? The key is still the chemistry between the two. I think Garrison is smart enough to play alongside Edler, but then I also thought the same of Salo... That didn't work out so well.


In fairness, Salo was a shade of his former self, so all things weren't equal. Interesting question nonetheless.

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10-02-2012, 04:25 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Signing him for 5.5 or less is not a problem IMO. He is the only reliable point producer on the back end, and the only defencemen we have that can manufacture offence on his own ( No Bieksa doesn't have his vision or passing).

If he is stubborn and wants more, sign him to a contract that doesn't have a NTC and trade him for something of worth. There will be teams lining up for his services, and a pretty hefty return could be had.
I agree with this. And despite my assessment of Edler which (for whatever reason people disagree with) I have always maintained that we should sign him to numbers that you mention above.

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