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Trades that are not as lopsided as some people may think or believe

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:15 PM
  #26
ChocolateLeclaire
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Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd.

People said Ottawa got fleeced on that one. I think both teams got what they needed.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:20 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Kessel; g and a wise here are the stats
99goals 102a for 201pts
Seguins 40 and 49 for 89pts and neither knight or hamilton have played a game in the nhl--best player now is Kessel, but in five years it one of those deals that MIGHT come back to bite teams in the ass
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
It's not gonna take 5 years for Burkie to want a mulligan on that one...and I like Kessel...Seguin himself will surpass Phil, and then the other two COULD BE be a boatload of gravy...The Bruins fans MIGHT get alot of mileage out of this one...
If you read my message I said that Kessel and Seguin will be fairly close in value through their careers (Kessel was the 6th leading scorer in the league this year, we can't complain about that).

The only way Toronto loses this deal big is if Hamilton becomes a solid top pairing D-Man or better, but until he plays an NHL game the deal is still essentially a wash. It has potential to shift strongly in favor of Boston, but it hasn't yet, especially how much it gets lambasted right now on the forums.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:24 PM
  #28
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The Kessel trade. /Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Not as criticized anymore, but when Poile traded Franson+Lombardi for Lebda+4th, everyone (myself included) laughed at him. Now, Franson is struggling to stick on Toronto's 3rd pairing and Lombardi has little/no/negative value. Kind of a nothing for nothing deal. I'm not saying it was a great trade, but it wasn't as bad as the immediate reaction made it seem.
Lombardi doesn't have much value, but he has value. Franson has even more value, and he is still Leaf property. They are not nothing.

Lebda is negative value.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:14 PM
  #29
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The Chris Pronger Trade ( To Anaheim)

Anaheim:
Pronger

Edmonton:
Lupul
Smid
Three Draft Picks

Anaheim gave away some of their best prospects at the time for a chance to go deep into the playoffs. Which they ended up winning. When the Justin Schultz topic came around Edmonton kept reminding how we stole Pronger for nothing and it was payback. For what Edmonton ended up getting it was a fair trade.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Dubinsky is a long way off from becoming Michael Peca. And I get that the options were limited, but they didn't HAVE to trade him. If they didn't like the returns, they could have forced him to stay until he decided to expand the list of teams he would be willing to go to. After a certain point I'm sure he would have caved. That is assuming he wanted out of Columbus as badly as it seems he did.
That wouldn't have been fair to the guy, especially considering that we did ultimately get 90% of what we wanted. Getting a game-breaker back was a happy ideal, not the end-all be-all.

It's just that folks keep remembering the names Chris Kreider and Logan Couture and start going "herp derp burr columbus fail lol"

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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Dubinsky was an awful centerpiece for a player like Nash. He's not that good.
What makes you think he was a centerpiece? What makes you think there was a centerpiece at all?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Lebda is negative value.
Random fun fact: Lebda, while he was here, actually looked like a highly competent bottom-pairing blueliner, moreso than some of the other guys we were obliged to play (*cough*cough*aaronjohnson*cough*). Which suggests that depending on the blueline style, he might actually be useful somewhere.

He could still theoretically be useful here, only we wanted a bottom slot for the kids, and a quality mentor for them (hence, Aucoin - who's an upgrade regardless).

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #31
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I'm going to say the Phil Kessel trade for this reason. In his first three seasons with the Leafs Kessel's goals and point totals have gone up every year. So I wish non Leafs fans can remember that and not what the Bruins got in return.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:44 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
That deal was great for both sides, Lupul was never going to get an opportunity here. Randy didn't want to play him LW, and he would be behind Perry and Teemu on RW. He's not made for the 3rd line, then Gardiner yeah we gave him up but we had Schultz that was thought to be better than him. Just we didn't know Schultz would screw us.

Schultz screwing us, and how Murray didn't resign Beauchemin in the first place made this deal seem retarded. But just looking at the deal itself it wasn't that bad.
I'm not sure this trade is defendable at all. the Ducks are on the verge of a massive rebuild and they trade away a good prospect for a guy who was on the way out in Toronto? Even ignoring the fact that they traded away Lupul, who went on to have a solid season.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I'm going to say the Phil Kessel trade for this reason. In his first three seasons with the Leafs Kessel's goals and point totals have gone up every year. So I wish non Leafs fans can remember that and not what the Bruins got in return.
Agreed

Bruins traded away one of the best wingers in the league but still got back a couple good prospects

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10-02-2012, 03:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
There are some trades that when you look back upon and at first glance they may not be as lopsides as the stats nay dictate

the first one the always jumps to mind is one trade, that at first glance looks very lopsided, until you ask the question "Is the game about stats or about winning"?

1980-Feb-18 Traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with Dave "Tiger" Williams to Vancouver Canucks for Bill Derlago and Rick Vaive

Some people view this trade in the same category as the Cam Neely trade

This is where the question I put forward comes in

While Vaive went on to score about 350 goals in a leaf uni and delergo had great years with the leafs

Leafs never got to the cup

However, the canucks, lead by tiger and a bunch of no names made it to the final at against the NYI in 81-82. While history paints tiger williams as a goon and other nasty stuff, Williams, when he had his head on straight was a very good third liner who could play two way hockey and pop in a few goals to help.

While looking at the stats of the trade, Leafs win in a walk and it is not close. Howwever, leafs never got to the cup final and the canucks did and the series against the flames and hawks were two of the most physical games I had every seen

and then you have this scene that is one of the greatest and funniest things I witnesses/

Thing is the Nucks never won the cup with that trade.Leafs won that trade big time.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I'm going to say the Phil Kessel trade for this reason. In his first three seasons with the Leafs Kessel's goals and point totals have gone up every year. So I wish non Leafs fans can remember that and not what the Bruins got in return.
i know im probably missing something here...lol...but that sure is a unique way of looking at a trade

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10-02-2012, 03:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourque77bourque View Post
i know im probably missing something here...lol...but that sure is a unique way of looking at a trade
yeah... looking at the performance of the players in the trade and not just counting how many years from their birth date to the present... such a weird way to look at a trade

BRB I'm going to re-read TSN's "Draft" edition for the fifth time and take a cold shower

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10-02-2012, 04:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
This will get heat but I still don't think the Kessel trade is as bad as people make it out to be.

We still currently have the best player in the deal RIGHT NOW. Going forward I think Seguin and Kessel will be close in terms of value, the only real wildcard that could make it lopsided is Hamilton, but until he performs at the NHL level, I don't think this deal was a huge loss for us, yet.
I just wanted to point out, you traded two future first round picks for a former 5th overall pick who already had 3 full seasons in the NHL, and it's only been 3 years since. So of course you're going to have the best player in the deal 'RIGHT NOW'.

You could make that point to bolster your argument that the trade wasn't that bad, but it only really works if you actually had a good team - Jarome Iginla for Joe Nieuwendyk for example. Since the Leafs have squandered these past 3 seasons, now that Seguin has caught up (roughly) the Kessel trade will always be judged by how well Seguin and Hamilton turn out in comparison to Kessel. Which is going to take a couple more years still.

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Old
10-02-2012, 04:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly7 View Post
The Chris Pronger Trade ( To Anaheim)

Anaheim:
Pronger

Edmonton:
Lupul
Smid
Three Draft Picks

Anaheim gave away some of their best prospects at the time for a chance to go deep into the playoffs. Which they ended up winning. When the Justin Schultz topic came around Edmonton kept reminding how we stole Pronger for nothing and it was payback. For what Edmonton ended up getting it was a fair trade.
I dunno... it should have worked out better than it did, 'cept the oilers continued to turn a decent asset (Lupul) into nothing... had they stopped when Lupul became Pitkanen, or Cole, they'd have been ok... but no, Tambo had to continue until all that was left was O'Sullivan and Vandermeer.

Good summary here...
http://oilersnation.com/2012/5/26/bi...-pronger-trade

At least one of the picks turned into Eberle.

Overall a reasonable trade (as I said all along) when all the assets were futures (more or less), but unfortunately the asset managment thereafter ruined what could have been a longer term semi-victory for the Oil.

(note to Oiler fans... not to bring up OLD arguments, but Lowe's report card on these assets is better than Tambo's)

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Old
10-02-2012, 04:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
yeah... looking at the performance of the players in the trade and not just counting how many years from their birth date to the present... such a weird way to look at a trade

BRB I'm going to re-read TSN's "Draft" edition for the fifth time and take a cold shower
lol...just having a little bit of fun here ...So if we don't count Seguin, Hamilton and Knight. That Kessel deal sure looks sweet

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:45 PM
  #40
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Thing is the Nucks never won the cup with that trade.Leafs won that trade big time.
leafs never even got to the cup

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:49 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
Gardiner + Lupul for Beauchemin.

I'm not a huge Ducks fan but from what I understanding, Beauchemin is doing pretty awesome.
He is, but we didn't need to throw Gardiner in as well. Lupul is easily as valuable if not more so than beauchemin at the moment. For Anaheim it was a trade made to satisfy a positional need, but we didn't NEED to ditch Gardiner, even though the belief was that Schultz would be a Duck by now and Gardiner wasn't needed. We needlessly lost both of them and we now have to hope that Vatanen and Lindholm will be suitable replacements.

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:53 PM
  #42
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As a Bruin fan I have no trouble admitting Kessel was very good for us once he had a chance to play... his playoff performance was strong too. He was NEVER our type of player. Our fan base is incapable of appreciating talent of this type. We didnt appreciate Thornton either. We like our star players to be able to fight like Neely and Lucic and OReilly and the like... the pure talent types never get much respect unless they are damn good at the defensive assignments too and Kessel will never be much good at anything other then offense.

Kessel has a weird personality too.

BUT if a team wants pure offense then Kessel is one of the top 10 talents in the NHL for being able to create pure offense almost single handed. A trade of a guy like this would be worth 2 first rounders. Specially at his age. Kessel has not had great teammates to play with yet... or a great team to take checking away from him. At some point I fully expect him to break the 50 goal barrier.

Seguin may become something special.. but its more likely Boston will run him out of town like we did Kessel. Lets hope we get a good return for him too if that happens. Hamilton to me... is the guy i expect to ultimately be the best return for Kessel. Knight might be a factor too.

So I would say Boston did great in this trade... but there is no guarantee Toronto would have got Seguin/Hamilton if the deal hadnt gone through. We cant really judge this trade Kessel for specific pics... only for the pics themselves.

If I was Boston and we traded 2 first and a second for Kessel, I would have been ok with the deal. For his sake, i wish his personality wasnt so weird. He will never be a popular player with the fans as a result of it. But he is a very talented offensive machine and those do have value.

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:02 PM
  #43
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speaking of crazy trades that arent as one sided as people think... the Joe Thornton deal is front and center imho.

Thornton had 'quit' on the B's at the time of his trade... and that wasnt a good thing cause he was our 'leader' Along with his clique of friends... they had created a loser mentality that had to be shipped out.

So we traded him and didnt get back any star players... but Marco Sturm came in with some effective enthusism for the game. Brad Stuart was suppsed to be the gem of the deal coming back.. and he wanted to go west... but we turned that into Andrew Ferrence who is mr professional in a locker room

On paper Ferrence/Sturm dont equal 1/2 of Thornton as far as individual talent on the ice is concerned... but this trade was about changing the culture of the B's. We got back way better culture

and we got back alot of cap room... and there was a cap now... and we were able to spend that cap room on bringing in Zdeno Chara to become the new captain of the team once we cut ties with Thornton.

If you assume the B's had no foresite at all... then you wouldnt give them credit for this. BUT if you assume they realized they needed to ship Thornton/Samsonov/Murray/Boynton/Raycroft out of town to get rid of the clique then you'd understand that there was a bit more of a plan going on.

Maybe OConnell should have been fired before the trade was made? But he wouldnt have been allowed to make this deal without the OK from the ownership. Ultimately, The B's knew they were going to change direction 100% and despite everyone saying this trade set them back 5 years... we won a cup

results end up speaking for themselves... this trade was the catalyst that took us off the treadmill and put us onto a straight path to glory. It wasnt nearly as bad as the pundits want to make of it

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:14 PM
  #44
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Trent hunter. 38 games 2g,5a,7pts- 1 point every 5.428 games
Brian rolston. 49 games. 4g,5a,9pts- 1 point every 5.444 games. ( with isles)

EVEN

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
That deal was great for both sides, Lupul was never going to get an opportunity here. Randy didn't want to play him LW, and he would be behind Perry and Teemu on RW. He's not made for the 3rd line, then Gardiner yeah we gave him up but we had Schultz that was thought to be better than him. Just we didn't know Schultz would screw us.

Schultz screwing us, and how Murray didn't resign Beauchemin in the first place made this deal seem retarded. But just looking at the deal itself it wasn't that bad.
Two All Stars plus a yet to be determined draft pick seems a pretty solid win for Toronto.

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:28 PM
  #46
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As a Leaf fan, the Kessel trade. Probably would've hit the ~90 point mark if Lupul didn't go down with an injury in the last 16 games of the season. Has taken a leadership role, and could continue to flourish as long as/when Burke brings in better supporting cast.

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:31 PM
  #47
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How can anyone say the Kessel Trade isn't as lopsided as people think, Seguin is most definetly going to be a better player if he isn't all ready, he is a player you build your franchise around, Kessel is not. Not to mention a top 5 prospect in the world in Dougie Hamilton. They also got Knight who IMO might be able to become a 3rd line scorer(not special, every team has a prospect like him but still a possible NHL player)

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:32 PM
  #48
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Agreed

Bruins traded away one of the best wingers in the league but still got back a couple good prospects
A couple good prospects and a star in the NHL at 20 years old.

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:34 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
Gardiner + Lupul for Beauchemin.

I'm not a huge Ducks fan but from what I understanding, Beauchemin is doing pretty awesome.
I'm a huge fan of Beauchemin but that trade was and always will be awful. We let Beauchemin go for nothing when he left after the '09 season and then went and traded two assets for him a year and a half later. Lupul was a bit redundant but was never given a chance in the top 6 after returning from injury (and was still producing 0.50PPG with limited minutes) and Gardiner was our best defensive prospect.

I don't think the Nash trade is as bad as many made out. The Kessel trade isn't that bad either but I do think it will come back to hurt the Leafs in a few years.

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Old
10-02-2012, 06:41 PM
  #50
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Gomez to Mtl trade isnt that bad.

Weve gone to the Eastern final as the Rangers.

So Id call it a tie


Im kidding
Mcdonagh - Subban pairing....

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