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Old
10-02-2012, 08:43 PM
  #326
Whiskeypete
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
NHLPA continues to anger and baffle me. League pretty much says it's open to movement and that the NHLPA should counter-propose something.

NHLPA says no.


**** these guys.
imo it's because the next one to blink loses. if im Fehr and the PA i put down a 54, 52 then 50% offer. keep backing down 2% a turn to show movement and finally an even split. in the end the players salaries will scale upwards to levels they are today. iirc the scale after 2004 lockout was back by 2007 or 2008. not to mention the fact the owners will keep tripping over themselves and signing contracts that leave the common person scratching their head in disbelief.

as much as the owners control this situation, ultimately they don't have ****. they own rights to teams, names, logos, etc. if they seriously think people will put down another $3B dollars this season to watch non-NHL players they are sadly mistaken.

case in point i live 5 minutes away from where the Chicago Wolves play. i've gone once in 6 years since i moved to Chicago. the only reason was because the tickets were free and i wanted to finally check it out.

fans will only put up with a sub par experience for so long. ultimately i want the NHLers and most fans will also. not to mention NBC will run away faster from the NHL than a chubby kid after the ice cream truck

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10-02-2012, 09:22 PM
  #327
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I don't think replacement players are such a turn off as most people do. NBC and the like would play it up to no end about replacement players, side stories on Joe the Plumber who's now the starting goaltender for the Washington Capitals, etc etc. Most people would tune in to see replacements. The casual fans for the sheer oddity of t and the diehards would watch because a) it's their favorite team and b) because we'd all want to see how bad they were.

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Old
10-02-2012, 09:36 PM
  #328
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If I could watch the Monarchs play on TV, I'd watch them. Unfortunately I can't (and no, I'm not willing to pay extra on top of my already overpriced cable bill). That said, if I'm going to be spending money to watch hockey and to attend games, I'm going to expect to see the best players on the ice. We're not going to get that from replacement players and I'm not going to pay triple digits for tickets and parking and what not to see the Darren Haydar's of hockey take the ice.

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:47 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
imo it's because the next one to blink loses. if im Fehr and the PA i put down a 54, 52 then 50% offer. keep backing down 2% a turn to show movement and finally an even split. in the end the players salaries will scale upwards to levels they are today. iirc the scale after 2004 lockout was back by 2007 or 2008. not to mention the fact the owners will keep tripping over themselves and signing contracts that leave the common person scratching their head in disbelief.

as much as the owners control this situation, ultimately they don't have ****. they own rights to teams, names, logos, etc. if they seriously think people will put down another $3B dollars this season to watch non-NHL players they are sadly mistaken.

case in point i live 5 minutes away from where the Chicago Wolves play. i've gone once in 6 years since i moved to Chicago. the only reason was because the tickets were free and i wanted to finally check it out.

fans will only put up with a sub par experience for so long. ultimately i want the NHLers and most fans will also. not to mention NBC will run away faster from the NHL than a chubby kid after the ice cream truck

Unfortunately the real Donald Fehr is in charge, so he won't make another offer outside of the one they made in August... -_-

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Old
10-03-2012, 02:21 AM
  #330
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I hate to say it but this dude makes a great point:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=55

If the players just bend to the owner's demands what exactly will be stopping us from going through this same **** in 5-7 years when the CBA expires again? Owners dont have what they want? Lock out the players and **** the fans!

Jesus Christ, maybe I'll start watching NASCAR. Those *******s never seem to have any trouble getting on the track...

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Old
10-03-2012, 03:52 AM
  #331
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I really don't care anymore. Football is on (College and NFL). NBA is getting ready to start.

Baseball is having some awesome playoff races.


I don't miss the NHL, and it's stupid labor dispute at all. Also I just got into watching Premier League Soccer; I have the Fox soccer channel. Hockey can kiss my you know what. Also all of my shows restart in September (Sons of Anarchy, Big Bang Theory). Plenty of good video games coming out, Fifa 13 is amazing, Dishonored, Xcom, Assassins Creed 3. I am covered, Screw Hockey (and the Greedy horse it rode in on).

My entertainment dollars will go elsewhere.

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Old
10-03-2012, 05:12 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I hate to say it but this dude makes a great point:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=55

If the players just bend to the owner's demands what exactly will be stopping us from going through this same **** in 5-7 years when the CBA expires again? Owners dont have what they want? Lock out the players and **** the fans!

Jesus Christ, maybe I'll start watching NASCAR. Those *******s never seem to have any trouble getting on the track...
Neither side is innocent in this. The players went on strike in the early 90's, then won after getting locked out in 94-95, and they were still locked out again in 04-05. If the numbers don't add up, then they don't add up.

The scary thing is that Fehr didn't have to come back to do this. He made his money, he was doing whatever else he was doing after baseball. Then he comes back to head the NHLPA. Why? What does he have to gain from it? The NHLPA? The NHL? Who cares? Why waste the time and energy on the NHL?

In my mind, he's in it for one reason: to get rid of the cap. That's the only challenge he would have left. Not to just keep a cap away, but to get rid of one after it's been established.

It's easy to talk crazy, but if it's October 3rd, 2013, and a deal hasn't been done yet, I wouldn't be shocked, because Fehr doesn't care. You don't hire Fehr if you just want to play.

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Old
10-03-2012, 06:21 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Neither side is innocent in this. The players went on strike in the early 90's, then won after getting locked out in 94-95, and they were still locked out again in 04-05. If the numbers don't add up, then they don't add up.

The scary thing is that Fehr didn't have to come back to do this. He made his money, he was doing whatever else he was doing after baseball. Then he comes back to head the NHLPA. Why? What does he have to gain from it? The NHLPA? The NHL? Who cares? Why waste the time and energy on the NHL?

In my mind, he's in it for one reason: to get rid of the cap. That's the only challenge he would have left. Not to just keep a cap away, but to get rid of one after it's been established.

It's easy to talk crazy, but if it's October 3rd, 2013, and a deal hasn't been done yet, I wouldn't be shocked, because Fehr doesn't care. You don't hire Fehr if you just want to play.
Maybe he loves a challenge? Lots of people come out of retirement and he must have realized he can make a difference after the way the PA was hamdled during the last lockout.

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Old
10-03-2012, 08:55 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I hate to say it but this dude makes a great point:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=55

If the players just bend to the owner's demands what exactly will be stopping us from going through this same **** in 5-7 years when the CBA expires again? Owners dont have what they want? Lock out the players and **** the fans!
That's just fear.

That's not looking at the situation logically.

If that's the case, that's a problem...the PA's problem.

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Old
10-03-2012, 10:14 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
If I could watch the Monarchs play on TV, I'd watch them. Unfortunately I can't (and no, I'm not willing to pay extra on top of my already overpriced cable bill). That said, if I'm going to be spending money to watch hockey and to attend games, I'm going to expect to see the best players on the ice. We're not going to get that from replacement players and I'm not going to pay triple digits for tickets and parking and what not to see the Darren Haydar's of hockey take the ice.
i could watch Monarchs because of the vested interest in that team. the players are Kings property and the future. beyond that though i dont give two ****** about the AHL. if the Monarchs actually played the Wolves here in Chicago, then i would go. they don't so why do i want to go see a CHI vs Rockford game. to see VAN and CHI's prospects.....hell no!

i can watch and do watch random NHL games when LA isn't playing. i used to watch 2-3 games a night before getting married. it's the NHL, they are the top players in the world. i like watching that level of hockey. anything else just doesn't measure up for me


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 10-04-2012 at 10:21 PM. Reason: filter circumvention
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Old
10-03-2012, 10:16 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Maybe he loves a challenge? Lots of people come out of retirement and he must have realized he can make a difference after the way the PA was hamdled during the last lockout.
Exactly. Fehr was looking for a fight, and he's now taking on an ownership group that was the only one in major pro sports that was willing to cancel an entire season, just a few short years ago.

Unfortunately for fans, that probably means no NHL hockey for a long time. Every work stoppage in the NHL has lasted longer than the one before it. With the people involved, a calendar year this time wouldn't surprise me. January 1st, 2014 wouldn't shock me.

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Old
10-03-2012, 10:20 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Exactly. Fehr was looking for a fight, and he's now taking on an ownership group that was the only one in major pro sports that was willing to cancel an entire season, just a few short years ago.

Unfortunately for fans, that probably means no NHL hockey for a long time. Every work stoppage in the NHL has lasted longer than the one before it. With the people involved, a calendar year this time wouldn't surprise me. January 1st, 2014 wouldn't shock me.
The union would fracture by them. Once the lower end guys; like Stoll (overpaid) start losing out on checks, this union will crack. Lower end Hockey players right now are way overpaid, they are not going to want to miss out on that money. Those lower end guys make up a majority of the union.

The NHLPA will start to get sick of this around December. By then it won't matter what (BS) Fehr is feeding them, they will want to get on NHL ice and get paid.

Happened to the NFL and NBA unions. The Average player in those leagues is overpaid as well. Once it came down to them losing money, and them feeling it, they caved.

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Old
10-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #338
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That's just fear.

That's not looking at the situation logically.

If that's the case, that's a problem...the PA's problem.
Unfortunately, fear is 2 for 2... :/

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Old
10-04-2012, 02:09 PM
  #339
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjllv...layer_embedded

Epic video.

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Old
10-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #340
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2004 all over again. it'll take a year before the players realize they have no leverage. theyll get a ****tier deal than the one they had in place. And this time the nhl will make the paperwork is airtight.......

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Old
10-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #341
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If the lockout ends, any chance we get the Canucks or the Sharks on Banner Night? Those would be my preferred opponents.
Anaheim would be great as well.

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Old
10-04-2012, 04:49 PM
  #342
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A solid source told me today that they have been told not to expect the Winter Classic at the Big House and that the wheels are already in motion to move the annual GLI tournament from Comerica Park back into Joe Louis Arena. Comerica Park was also going to host an alumni game and a couple of other events, which would obviously also be cancelled.

I'm sadly starting to think Dan Cleary may be correct when he says this will last longer than the last one.

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Old
10-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #343
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I'm sadly starting to think Dan Cleary may be correct when he says this will last longer than the last one.
If that happens, you can expect revenue to be down when hockey returns and the players to be worse off. They are going to lose a year's worth of salary and 10% points of HHR isn't going to offset that. Maybe I'm missing something but I think Mike Modano was the more poinant with his comments.

If they miss a year+, it is possible that some smaller market teams will struggle to recover their fans and potentially put them into Phoenix territory. That isn't good for anyone but especially the players.

When the last lockout happened, I believe we were 10 years removed from the last work stoppage that was only a partial season lost. Losing a second season in 7 years time is going to have a bigger impact in my opinion. The players are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I don't think the owners aren't without blame because they certainly have created some of the conditions they want to erase. That being said, the players have tried to play hardball since Fehr took over and that has done them no favors and in my opinion, has made them look bad from a fan's standpoint. No other professional sports league has gone through this. They look like a bunch of divas.

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Old
10-04-2012, 08:31 PM
  #344
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I heard today that the interest in AEG by a certain individual in L.A. has soured and the lock out is part of the reason why. I have also heard that Jan 1 is the soonest that we will be watching NHL hockey but that seems like a bit of a long shot.

Now I know that rumors are rumors so take them for their face value but I will say that when I heard both of these things I took them to heart.

The AEG thing sort of works out well for us as I would like to see PA and co keep the Kings running the way they are today but I actually thought that the NHL was working in the right direction towards a resolution and now I doubt it highly.

If things get any colder between the two sides we can put an end to global warming.

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Old
10-04-2012, 09:08 PM
  #345
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The mid and lower level players are absolutely going to lose their ***** in all of this.

Hope it's worth it to them.

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Old
10-04-2012, 09:19 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
A solid source told me today that they have been told not to expect the Winter Classic at the Big House and that the wheels are already in motion to move the annual GLI tournament from Comerica Park back into Joe Louis Arena. Comerica Park was also going to host an alumni game and a couple of other events, which would obviously also be cancelled.

I'm sadly starting to think Dan Cleary may be correct when he says this will last longer than the last one.
That would just follow the trend. Every NHL work stoppage has gone longer then the previous one.

The owners were willing to cancel the season last time. Fehr dislikes the cap, and came in to specifically fight the only ownership group that has ever cancelled an entire season, and they did it to get the very thing that Fehr dislikes the most.

1/1/14, and that's if we're lucky.

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Old
10-04-2012, 09:59 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
If that happens, you can expect revenue to be down when hockey returns and the players to be worse off. They are going to lose a year's worth of salary and 10% points of HHR isn't going to offset that. Maybe I'm missing something but I think Mike Modano was the more poinant with his comments.

If they miss a year+, it is possible that some smaller market teams will struggle to recover their fans and potentially put them into Phoenix territory. That isn't good for anyone but especially the players.

When the last lockout happened, I believe we were 10 years removed from the last work stoppage that was only a partial season lost. Losing a second season in 7 years time is going to have a bigger impact in my opinion. The players are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I don't think the owners aren't without blame because they certainly have created some of the conditions they want to erase. That being said, the players have tried to play hardball since Fehr took over and that has done them no favors and in my opinion, has made them look bad from a fan's standpoint. No other professional sports league has gone through this. They look like a bunch of divas.
This is kind of almost my hope... It's really the only way that everyone is going to come to their senses I think. If the league starts losing owners and teams, the players lose jobs and maybe think next about fighting over variable things like %s. It also would likely mean that Bettman and his merry band of men are sent packing which can only be good for the game in the long run. The game was at it's highest level and had possibly it's best season financially and we are now in a lockout... Losing teams in small markets and the league showing signs of collapse could be just the wake up call the NHL needs to prevent childish stuff like this year from happeing for a while.

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Old
10-04-2012, 10:00 PM
  #348
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When you think about it there's two issues that are stopping this from being done.


The first issue is the owner's want a cut back the first year, the players aren't willing to do that, they are willing to cut back over the next few years, but the owners want a cut back right now.

Second issue is both sides are afraid to show weakness by providing an offer. Remember in 04 when the NHLPA offered the 24% roll back like the NHL wanted? No deal was made because the NHL took their deal and essentially said "thank you, we'll take this and put it in our filing cabinet, what else can you give us?" it sucks but that's the reality, they're afraid to offer something significant, now.

I personally don't see how this lockout can be longer than the last one, in 04-05 there were a lot of things that needed to be changed, the game of hockey was hurting and needed changes to make it better, this time it's all about which slice of the pie everyone gets and when, I still think the season will start by Thanksgiving, but we'll see.

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Old
10-04-2012, 11:06 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
That would just follow the trend. Every NHL work stoppage has gone longer then the previous one.

The owners were willing to cancel the season last time. Fehr dislikes the cap, and came in to specifically fight the only ownership group that has ever cancelled an entire season, and they did it to get the very thing that Fehr dislikes the most.

1/1/14, and that's if we're lucky.
With all due respect, don't you think you are going a bit overboard?

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Old
10-05-2012, 12:15 AM
  #350
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I hate to say it but this dude makes a great point:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=55

If the players just bend to the owner's demands what exactly will be stopping us from going through this same **** in 5-7 years when the CBA expires again? Owners dont have what they want? Lock out the players and **** the fans!

Jesus Christ, maybe I'll start watching NASCAR. Those *******s never seem to have any trouble getting on the track...
Sorry, I have read almost all of that guy's stuff and he is clueless. I can't be convinced that if the shoe were on the other foot and the split was 57/43 in favor of the owners that there would be a lockout right now. A strike maybe, but not a lockout.

BTW, I took the money from my refunded Frozen Fury tickets and spent it on VIP tickets for the La Reve show and it was better than any pre-season game will ever be. Thanks Mr. Fehr.


Last edited by KINGS17: 10-05-2012 at 12:25 AM.
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