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Jarome Iginla as a top-5 all time goal scorers!

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Old
09-15-2012, 03:46 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Agreed. Nothing wrong with being a top 20 goal scorer of all time. Also if you want rank by type of player instead, he's probably a top 5 power forward (top 10 at the very least). Kovalchuk is absolutely a better goal scorer, though; his natural shooting talent is probably second in the league to Stamkos, and was first in the league for the majority of his career.
Top five power forward?

Hmm. that's arguable.

Gordie Howe is the obvious #1. There are other obvious contenders for #2 to #5 in Ted Lindsay, Mark Messier, Bobby Clarke, Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, Phil Esposito, and Cam Neely. You could make an argument for the inclusion of Kevin Stevens on this "short list" as he was one of the league's absolute elite players until Rich Pilon wrecked him (read: hip-checked and all 225 pounds of him landed on his face, resulting in massive injuries) in the 1993 playoffs.

Iginla might compare to some of those guys. I'd probably put him above Neely and Shanahan, possibly Messier as well. But that doesn't get him into the top five. And I probably left guys out when I came up with that list.

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09-15-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Top five power forward?

Hmm. that's arguable.

Gordie Howe is the obvious #1. There are other obvious contenders for #2 to #5 in Ted Lindsay, Mark Messier, Bobby Clarke, Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, Phil Esposito, and Cam Neely. You could make an argument for the inclusion of Kevin Stevens on this "short list" as he was one of the league's absolute elite players until Rich Pilon wrecked him (read: hip-checked and all 225 pounds of him landed on his face, resulting in massive injuries) in the 1993 playoffs.

Iginla might compare to some of those guys. I'd probably put him above Neely and Shanahan, possibly Messier as well. But that doesn't get him into the top five. And I probably left guys out when I came up with that list.
It is impossible to compare players that played at different times which is why I hate arguments like this, Iginla started his career in some of the most defensive hockey of all time and had a prime year taken away from a lock out, had he played when there were less teams meaning the talent on each team was higher he most likely would have done much better but then again he may never have been given a chance and had been forced to play as a grinder. Iginla is one of the best of his generation and will go down as the best Flame all time.

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09-15-2012, 05:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It is impossible to compare players that played at different times which is why I hate arguments like this, Iginla started his career in some of the most defensive hockey of all time and had a prime year taken away from a lock out, had he played when there were less teams meaning the talent on each team was higher he most likely would have done much better but then again he may never have been given a chance and had been forced to play as a grinder. Iginla is one of the best of his generation and will go down as the best Flame all time.
Ok. And how does he compare to his contemporaries?

Esposito led the league in goals six times and points five times. Lindsay started his career a couple years into the O6 era, an ended it right before the 1967 expansion. He finished sixth in scoring with 851 points during that period behind Howe (1501), Richard (954), Beliveau (944), Bathgate (870), and Delvecchio (864).

The idea that the O6 was a higher scoring era is ludicrous; including 8 players who played three or fewer games, only 23 players managed to post a point-per-game pace in the span from 42-43 through 66-67. That also includes three more who played fewer than 100 games. So really it's 12 PPG players to cover 25 years.

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09-15-2012, 11:37 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ok. And how does he compare to his contemporaries?

Esposito led the league in goals six times and points five times. Lindsay started his career a couple years into the O6 era, an ended it right before the 1967 expansion. He finished sixth in scoring with 851 points during that period behind Howe (1501), Richard (954), Beliveau (944), Bathgate (870), and Delvecchio (864).

The idea that the O6 was a higher scoring era is ludicrous; including 8 players who played three or fewer games, only 23 players managed to post a point-per-game pace in the span from 42-43 through 66-67. That also includes three more who played fewer than 100 games. So really it's 12 PPG players to cover 25 years.
The game was completely different if you cannot see that then there is no point in arguing.

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09-16-2012, 02:59 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Top five power forward?

Hmm. that's arguable.

Gordie Howe is the obvious #1. There are other obvious contenders for #2 to #5 in Ted Lindsay, Mark Messier, Bobby Clarke, Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, Phil Esposito, and Cam Neely. You could make an argument for the inclusion of Kevin Stevens on this "short list" as he was one of the league's absolute elite players until Rich Pilon wrecked him (read: hip-checked and all 225 pounds of him landed on his face, resulting in massive injuries) in the 1993 playoffs.

Iginla might compare to some of those guys. I'd probably put him above Neely and Shanahan, possibly Messier as well. But that doesn't get him into the top five. And I probably left guys out when I came up with that list.
i feel soo bad for him... he propably felt soo bad after that... (i feel bad for stevens too of course, kinda ruined his career and his personnel life)

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09-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I thought that it put him at 5th...
The end of the article:

Quote:
I would put Jarome ahead of Robatille, Messier and Esposito who all had great totals and long careers but also the benefit of playing with slouches like Gretzky, Orr and the like. I’m torn on Richard, he obviously had a great team around him, but he was far ahead of his peers. So final ranking 1. Brett Hull 2 Mario Lemiuex 3 Mike Bossy 4 Wayne Gretzky 5 Gordie Howe 6 Pavel Bure 7 Jarome 8 Rocket
It is kind of hard to read, what with the spelling mistakes and punctuation errors. But the list he makes goes as such:

1. Brett Hull (I'm assuming Adam Oates is nearby?)
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Mike Bossy
4. Wayne Gretzky
5. Gordie Howe
6. Pavel Bure
7. Jarome Iginla
8. Maurice "Rocket" Richard

I personally would disagree heavily with the order there, and also point out the fact that Bobby Hull isn't even on the list.

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09-17-2012, 12:29 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The end of the article:



It is kind of hard to read, what with the spelling mistakes and punctuation errors. But the list he makes goes as such:

1. Brett Hull (I'm assuming Adam Oates is nearby?)
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Mike Bossy
4. Wayne Gretzky
5. Gordie Howe
6. Pavel Bure
7. Jarome Iginla
8. Maurice "Rocket" Richard

I personally would disagree heavily with the order there, and also point out the fact that Bobby Hull isn't even on the list.
Yeah, i read it again. That is the order.

I disagree too. That is why i wanted to open up this conversation. Personally i can't put him any higher than 20 and likely not even that high. At least not yet.

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09-23-2012, 06:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Agreed. Nothing wrong with being a top 20 goal scorer of all time. Also if you want rank by type of player instead, he's probably a top 5 power forward (top 10 at the very least). Kovalchuk is absolutely a better goal scorer, though; his natural shooting talent is probably second in the league to Stamkos, and was first in the league for the majority of his career.

there you go. Howe, Messier, Jagr, Neely.... is this where we slot Iggy? can't think of any other obvious ones.

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09-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
there you go. Howe, Messier, Jagr, Neely.... is this where we slot Iggy? can't think of any other obvious ones.
I already went through this... Howe is #1, we know that. After him, we know there's Esposito, Clarke, Lindsay, Lindros, Messier, Neely, Shanahan. If you want to include Jagr, add him to the list. But Iggy clearly doesn't make the top 5.

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09-23-2012, 08:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I already went through this... Howe is #1, we know that. After him, we know there's Esposito, Clarke, Lindsay, Lindros, Messier, Neely, Shanahan. If you want to include Jagr, add him to the list. But Iggy clearly doesn't make the top 5.
You could make an argument for him being the 4th/5th after those guys.

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09-23-2012, 09:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
You could make an argument for him being the 4th/5th after those guys.
Howe, Esposito, Clarke, Lindsay, and Lindros all were better PFs than Iginla. If Jagr's included, he goes into that group as well.

That ranks Iginla 7th at best, depending on how you compare him to Messier, Neely, Shanahan, and others.

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09-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #37
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Top 5 is a stretch, lol.

I'd say easily top 20. He played in a terrible era for goal scoring. He missed one of his prime seasons. He had to spend one NHL season to adjust to a completely different set of rules. Going from having to bulk up every off season to take the beating you do to trying to thin out and gain some speed is quite the adjustment to your career.


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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post



Naslund seriously carried that line. Morrison was not as good as Conroy - he didn't score as much OR play defense as well. Conroy was a perennial Selke contender if you don't recall. Bertuzzi's big years and numbers were seriously inflated because he played with Naslund; he basically took advantage of the fact that everyone was "****, it's Naslund!" to stay surprisingly undetected. Had he been the primary on the line, he wouldn't have scored more than 20-25 goals. It's like last season in Detroit. He played with Datsyuk and Franzen, but only managed 38 points. How do you only manage 38 points as an offense-only player on that line? He is, literally, Detroit's worst forward, just as he was the worst forward on that line. He played on the Naslund line for the same reason Bob Probert played with Steve Yzerman in 1988. Size. Fists. Bertuzzi is just a bit more skilled than Probert was. I wouldn't have been surprised to see him end up with around 40-50 points had he been opposite Iginla in Calgary in those years. Why? Naslund was a much better playmaker than Bertuzzi. Iginla was the better goal scorer, and Bertuzzi might have creaked over 50 because of that, but Naslund's playmaking was what really "created" Bertuzzi.
I hate Vancouver, always have. Naslund is one of the very few players that played for the Canucks that I actually didn't mind as a player. I hated Bertuzzi with a passion and was disgusted when Calgary signed him. With that said, you are under selling Bertuzzi.

First, you cannot compare the Bertuzzi of Detroit to the Bertuzzi of the WCE hay day. That is just ridiculous. Fact is, Bertuzzi has never been the same type of player since the he left Vancouver. Players change over the course of their career.

Bertuzzi is not a fighter. 12 fights in 6 seasons with Vancouver. In fact, one of the main reasons I hated Bertuzzi so much was because he would not fight as much as he should have. Bertuzzi wasn't some knuckle dragging buffoon on that line.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/207

Bertuzzi created so much space for that line it was sick. He constantly had a body all over him, and in many cases two bodies. As for play making ability? Have you watched Bertuzzi play before? Naslund had the better shot out of the two. Naslund was a good play maker, but Bertuzzi was no slouch. Bertuzzi has always been able to pull off sick moves. A problem of Bertuzzis was that he would start to get too cute and try and force that extra pass. I'd say Naslund was a better play maker out of the two just because he was smarter and wouldn't try and get cute. Talent and skill wise, both were good in their prime. I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet that Naslund consistently out shot Bertuzzi when they played together. Bertuzzi held his own with regards to play making ability.

Bertuzzi helped Naslund just as much as Naslund helped Bertuzzi. Naslund in no way carried that line like you are trying to suggest.

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09-24-2012, 03:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Pacem View Post
Top 5 is a stretch, lol.

I'd say easily top 20. He played in a terrible era for goal scoring. He missed one of his prime seasons. He had to spend one NHL season to adjust to a completely different set of rules. Going from having to bulk up every off season to take the beating you do to trying to thin out and gain some speed is quite the adjustment to your career.




I hate Vancouver, always have. Naslund is one of the very few players that played for the Canucks that I actually didn't mind as a player. I hated Bertuzzi with a passion and was disgusted when Calgary signed him. With that said, you are under selling Bertuzzi.

First, you cannot compare the Bertuzzi of Detroit to the Bertuzzi of the WCE hay day. That is just ridiculous. Fact is, Bertuzzi has never been the same type of player since the he left Vancouver. Players change over the course of their career.

Bertuzzi is not a fighter. 12 fights in 6 seasons with Vancouver. In fact, one of the main reasons I hated Bertuzzi so much was because he would not fight as much as he should have. Bertuzzi wasn't some knuckle dragging buffoon on that line.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/207

Bertuzzi created so much space for that line it was sick. He constantly had a body all over him, and in many cases two bodies. As for play making ability? Have you watched Bertuzzi play before? Naslund had the better shot out of the two. Naslund was a good play maker, but Bertuzzi was no slouch. Bertuzzi has always been able to pull off sick moves. A problem of Bertuzzis was that he would start to get too cute and try and force that extra pass. I'd say Naslund was a better play maker out of the two just because he was smarter and wouldn't try and get cute. Talent and skill wise, both were good in their prime. I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet that Naslund consistently out shot Bertuzzi when they played together. Bertuzzi held his own with regards to play making ability.

Bertuzzi helped Naslund just as much as Naslund helped Bertuzzi. Naslund in no way carried that line like you are trying to suggest.
What this guy said.

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Old
09-28-2012, 08:04 PM
  #39
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As a big time Iginla fan I don't care where he ranks as an all time top 5/10/20 goal scorer, I just hope he cracks 600 career goals.

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09-28-2012, 10:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Now, i don't want to cause a **** storm, so i opened this thread here. Where i would probably find the most Iggy fans.

So, i found this article/study about Iginla. It is made basically 2 seasons ago. It seems like there has been some effort in making of this and there is actually some good points to consider. But there is also a lot of things that i don't consider accurate. Also a lot of things that don't pass the eye test.

Is Iginla truly a top-5 goalscorer and best of his era?

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.co...er-of-all-time
for me top 6 of all time are

Teemu S
Brett Hull
Bobby Hull(yes I am that old)
Jagr
Dionne
Gartner

I left Gretz and Mess of the list because most of Gretz goals were just out of the blue and Mess by force

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09-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
for me top 6 of all time are

Teemu S
Brett Hull
Bobby Hull(yes I am that old)
Jagr
Dionne
Gartner

I left Gretz and Mess of the list because most of Gretz goals were just out of the blue and Mess by force
Mario Lemieux?
Phil Esposito?
Guy Lafleur?
Mike Bossy?
Pavel Bure?

Statistically (GPG) the top ten are:

Mike Bossy 0.76
Mario Lemieux 0.75
Pavel Bure 0.62
Alex Ovechkin 0.61
Wayne Gretzky 0.60
Brett Hull 0.58
Bobby Hull 0.57
Phil Esposito 0.56
Maurice Richard 0.56
Rick Martin 0.56

There are only a handful of other guys who beat the 0.50 mark on their careers, Kovalchuk being one of them. Stamkos is above that mark (0.55) as well but hasn't played very much yet.

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09-29-2012, 12:14 AM
  #42
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He's not top 5, not even top 10. Probably top 20, maybe even top 15.

My top 12 (chronological order):

Richard
Howe
Bobby Hull
Esposito
Bossy
Gretzky
Lemieux
Brett Hull
Jagr
Bure
Selanne
Ovechkin

Best Canadian goal scorer in quite a while though.

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10-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
He's not top 5, not even top 10. Probably top 20, maybe even top 15.

My top 12 (chronological order):

Richard
Howe
Bobby Hull
Esposito
Bossy
Gretzky
Lemieux
Brett Hull
Jagr
Bure
Selanne
Ovechkin

Best Canadian goal scorer in quite a while though.
Lemieux, Yzerman, Shanahan, Sakic, and Hull were still in the NHL and scoring well within two or three years of Iginla's prime and Gretzky had only just left in 1999. Not sure how you can say "in a while" with a straight face.

Especially now that Crosby is the best at everything again.

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10-02-2012, 11:57 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
He's not top 5, not even top 10. Probably top 20, maybe even top 15.

My top 12 (chronological order):

Richard
Howe
Bobby Hull
Esposito
Bossy
Gretzky
Lemieux
Brett Hull
Jagr
Bure
Selanne
Ovechkin

Best Canadian goal scorer in quite a while though.
Ovechkin doesn't belong here yet. I would say Iginla is also a better goal scorer than Selanne, and more consistent than Bure I am sure plenty of people would disagree with my viewpoint there however.

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10-02-2012, 12:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Ovechkin doesn't belong here yet. I would say Iginla is also a better goal scorer than Selanne, and more consistent than Bure I am sure plenty of people would disagree with my viewpoint there however.
The WCE came up in this thread. Do you think Bertuzzi was a great scorer?

Ovechkin is ahead of him by about 40 goals (career) in about half as many games. Even in Bertuzzi's best season, he wasn't as good as Ovechkin has been over his career. For goals or points. Naslund's best wasn't as good as Ovie's career mark for goals and only just barely beat his career mark for points. That's how insanely good Ovechkin is at scoring.

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10-02-2012, 12:37 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The WCE came up in this thread. Do you think Bertuzzi was a great scorer?

Ovechkin is ahead of him by about 40 goals (career) in about half as many games. Even in Bertuzzi's best season, he wasn't as good as Ovechkin has been over his career. For goals or points. Naslund's best wasn't as good as Ovie's career mark for goals and only just barely beat his career mark for points. That's how insanely good Ovechkin is at scoring.
Why are you talking about Bertuzzi? How is Bertuzzi a bench mark for that list, the one im talking about, when he isn't even on it? I never said Ovechkin WOULDN'T be on this list, I am saying AS OF RIGHT NOW, he hasn't even cracked 400 goals. Hell, he could dry up and be a 20 goal scorer the rest of his career, he could leave for the KHL. WE DON'T KNOW YET.

The rest of that list is guys who are 35+ years old, and thats for a reason.

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10-02-2012, 11:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Lemieux, Yzerman, Shanahan, Sakic, and Hull were still in the NHL and scoring well within two or three years of Iginla's prime and Gretzky had only just left in 1999. Not sure how you can say "in a while" with a straight face.

Especially now that Crosby is the best at everything again.
It's difficult to put together a single list. I was looking more at peak/prime goal scoring. That's why Ovechkin's there as opposed to some of the players you mentioned, as well as players like Iginla, Kovalchuk, etc. Stamkos could be there in a couple/few years too. For career goal scoring, one could look at the career adjusted goal list as a good guide to the best career goal scorers.

The dozen players on my list pretty much stand out compared to others in terms of adjusted goals over a few/several seasons.

If one wanted to put together the ultimate list of best goal scorers, it might include:

A) career adjusted goals
B) career adjusted gpg
C) adjusted goals in their best X, Y, Z, etc. seasons
D) how they ranked in goals vs. contemporary competition
E) "clutch" goal scoring (playoffs, etc.)
F) even strength goal scoring
G) whether they focused primarily on goal scoring or were more balanced

My list was focused mostly on C.

Iginla hasn't quite been on that ultra-elite level, but his durability, longevity, consistency, and even strength productivity would put him very high on my list. Something like 15-25 seems about right, but I haven't attempted to actually make such a list, and it would depend on exactly which factors were used and how much importance each was given.

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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Ovechkin doesn't belong here yet. I would say Iginla is also a better goal scorer than Selanne, and more consistent than Bure I am sure plenty of people would disagree with my viewpoint there however.
I understand why you wouldn't include Ovechkin, but in terms of peak or shorter prime goal scoring, he is right up there. His ES goal scoring over such periods is remarkable as well.

Iginla was definitely more consistent than Bure (and others as well). He's almost the anti-Bure... long career, durable, consistent, more balances scorer, etc. I could see Iginla over Bure, if looking at extended prime/career type periods. Tougher sell on Selanne. Selanne had a down period due to injuries, but his peak, prime and career numbers are all better than Iginla's. His main weakness might be playoff scoring, but I don't see Iginla having that much of an edge in that area (and over a small sample), so doesn't seem to make up for the larger edge Selanne has over a much larger sample.


Last edited by Czech Your Math: 10-02-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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10-03-2012, 11:47 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
It's difficult to put together a single list. I was looking more at peak/prime goal scoring. That's why Ovechkin's there as opposed to some of the players you mentioned, as well as players like Iginla, Kovalchuk, etc. Stamkos could be there in a couple/few years too. For career goal scoring, one could look at the career adjusted goal list as a good guide to the best career goal scorers.

The dozen players on my list pretty much stand out compared to others in terms of adjusted goals over a few/several seasons.

If one wanted to put together the ultimate list of best goal scorers, it might include:

A) career adjusted goals
B) career adjusted gpg
C) adjusted goals in their best X, Y, Z, etc. seasons
D) how they ranked in goals vs. contemporary competition
E) "clutch" goal scoring (playoffs, etc.)
F) even strength goal scoring
G) whether they focused primarily on goal scoring or were more balanced

My list was focused mostly on C.

Iginla hasn't quite been on that ultra-elite level, but his durability, longevity, consistency, and even strength productivity would put him very high on my list. Something like 15-25 seems about right, but I haven't attempted to actually make such a list, and it would depend on exactly which factors were used and how much importance each was given.



I understand why you wouldn't include Ovechkin, but in terms of peak or shorter prime goal scoring, he is right up there. His ES goal scoring over such periods is remarkable as well.

Iginla was definitely more consistent than Bure (and others as well). He's almost the anti-Bure... long career, durable, consistent, more balances scorer, etc. I could see Iginla over Bure, if looking at extended prime/career type periods. Tougher sell on Selanne. Selanne had a down period due to injuries, but his peak, prime and career numbers are all better than Iginla's. His main weakness might be playoff scoring, but I don't see Iginla having that much of an edge in that area (and over a small sample), so doesn't seem to make up for the larger edge Selanne has over a much larger sample.
I don't doubt he will be up there, I just think its jumping the gun a bit. The argument id use with Selanne is that he played some of his best years (rookie years) during the highest scoring era in modern NHL.

Whereas Iginla's prime was spent in arguably the 2nd lowest scoring era of all time. Its more of a personal opinion though, Selanne can be argued to be the better goal scorer as well.

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10-03-2012, 04:37 PM
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I don't doubt he will be up there, I just think its jumping the gun a bit. The argument id use with Selanne is that he played some of his best years (rookie years) during the highest scoring era in modern NHL.

Whereas Iginla's prime was spent in arguably the 2nd lowest scoring era of all time. Its more of a personal opinion though, Selanne can be argued to be the better goal scorer as well.
It is jumping the gun if we're talking about extended prime (10-15 seasons) or career evaluation. However, Ovechkin has peaked IMO and his peak/prime as a goal scorer appear quite elite. Both his adjusted goal seasons and his season rankings in goals (and at ES as well) are among the best. Even using career as part of the ranking, he's still probably above Bure... maybe even Bossy. He also would have been in the NHL in '05 and I think after 8-10 seasons is enough to start to have an idea of where a player may rank, except on a strictly career basis (this would be Ovechkin's 9th season if not for the lockouts on either end).

Selanne did have by far his best goal season in '93, but I'm looking at adjusted numbers. He's also had at least a couple excellent seasons post-lockout. He led the league in goals 3 times, and was 2nd and 3rd as well. He's 5th in career adjusted goals. Hard to argue that a player who peaked so high and has career totals so high wasn't one of the best goal scorers. His main weaknesses are a lot of lesser years mixed in with some great ones, in large part due to injury, and his rather mediocre playoff production (which is mitigated somewhat by his international performance). However, even if someone like Iginla or Kovalchuk stays around long enough to approach Selanne's career adjusted goal total, I don't see them surpassing Selanne (at least on my list). They'd have to have a significant edge in career numbers for me to even consider ranking them around his level.

If Iginla can just play another 3-4 seasons, he probably will have solid enough credentials to be considered a top 15 goal scorer. I guess an argument might be made for top 10. However, right now his strongest case is his two first place finishes in goals, and those were during a rather weak period for forwards. If he ends up top 10 (and esp. top 5) in career adjusted goals, that would help his case quite a bit.

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10-03-2012, 06:45 PM
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It is jumping the gun if we're talking about extended prime (10-15 seasons) or career evaluation. However, Ovechkin has peaked IMO and his peak/prime as a goal scorer appear quite elite. Both his adjusted goal seasons and his season rankings in goals (and at ES as well) are among the best. Even using career as part of the ranking, he's still probably above Bure... maybe even Bossy. He also would have been in the NHL in '05 and I think after 8-10 seasons is enough to start to have an idea of where a player may rank, except on a strictly career basis (this would be Ovechkin's 9th season if not for the lockouts on either end).

Selanne did have by far his best goal season in '93, but I'm looking at adjusted numbers. He's also had at least a couple excellent seasons post-lockout. He led the league in goals 3 times, and was 2nd and 3rd as well. He's 5th in career adjusted goals. Hard to argue that a player who peaked so high and has career totals so high wasn't one of the best goal scorers. His main weaknesses are a lot of lesser years mixed in with some great ones, in large part due to injury, and his rather mediocre playoff production (which is mitigated somewhat by his international performance). However, even if someone like Iginla or Kovalchuk stays around long enough to approach Selanne's career adjusted goal total, I don't see them surpassing Selanne (at least on my list). They'd have to have a significant edge in career numbers for me to even consider ranking them around his level.

If Iginla can just play another 3-4 seasons, he probably will have solid enough credentials to be considered a top 15 goal scorer. I guess an argument might be made for top 10. However, right now his strongest case is his two first place finishes in goals, and those were during a rather weak period for forwards. If he ends up top 10 (and esp. top 5) in career adjusted goals, that would help his case quite a bit.
I can't argee that Ovy is a better goal scorer than Iginla, in Iginla's best year he had 52 goals and 26% of his teams goals, while in Ovy's best season he had 65 goals and 27% of his teams offensive . In other words if Iginla had 26% of his teams offensive if they scored as many goals as Ovy's team he would have had 62 goals. I Love Ovy but at their peak they are very comparable. Not to mention Iginla's best year was in one of hardest eras to score versus Ovy's whose year was one of the easier years to score as the game was more open.

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