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Franzen/Filppula

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Old
10-03-2012, 07:41 PM
  #1
SirloinUB
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Franzen/Filppula

Who would you rather your team trade for? Im curious to see how the two compare from a non-wings fan perspective. I ask because Ive noticed (what appears to be) a contradiction on this board.

Ive seen people say:
Player X is more valuable than Filpulla because he is a ufa after this season.

Then a couple posts later I will read:

Player X (or even Y) is more valuable than Franzen because he is under conract (that no-one expects him to play out) for too long.

Maybe im missing something, but how can both players lose "percieved value" for exactly opposite reasons?

Note: this isnt regarding eithers value compared to other players as Ive season both arguments posted in any Proposal: XX-Wings Thread.

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10-03-2012, 08:09 PM
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ArGarBarGar
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The idea of the Franzen contract is it goes until he is 41, so you would have him under the salary cap for just a touch under $4 million even if he isn't a $4 million player.

I think it is silly considering how crazy players are being payed these days and the guy is able to pot you 20-30 goals each season.

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Old
10-03-2012, 08:18 PM
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FrolikFan67
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franzen. ive always been very impressed w/ his production, and the fact he makes what he does is insane. in 0'7-'08 he had 27G and 72games, then 34G in 71games, the following season he missed 55games, then had 28G in 76games, and last season he had 29G in 77games...and he's signed for life making UNDER 4mil per? especially because the panthers are weak at rw, i'd rather franzen.

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10-03-2012, 08:25 PM
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Because most ideal contract situations fall somewhere more than one season that may not even be played, and less than 8 seasons that takes the player to age 41.

I'm not saying either is a bad contract, but to suggest that if one extreme is bad, the other extreme must be good, is kind of silly. I don't want to date a 15 year old girl because she'd be too young for me, but that doesn't mean I want to date 90 year old old.

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10-03-2012, 09:20 PM
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Franzens contract scares allot of people and Wings fans do have a tendancy to overlook just how valuable he is. Since his 07-10 run of being a playoff beast he hasnt been overly impressive in the post season. Granted, in 2011 he BLEW his ankle (and face up) when Doan yardsaled him with a monster hit and he only limped around for a few more games. And this year was an uninspired disaster of a playoffs because half the team was just getting off the IR as playoffs were starting and the entire team outside of Zetterberg and a a pain-medication juiced Cleary really was uninspiring.

End of the day - 3.9 a year for a 6'3 guy who has averaged 29.5 goals/season over his last 4 full seasons is a steal. Hes not a small dude that relies on blinding speed to score goals nor is he a physical beast that plays on the edge and "muscles" goals in (ie, prime Bertuzzi, Lindros, Ovi, Forsberg). Like most swedes I dont see a big drop-off in his production happening over the next 5 years. Hes a big soft body that leans on guys, bangs in garbage goals, can pick corners and snipe, and has a nose for being in the right place. Essentially hes a bigger more atheltic/mobile Holmstrom with half the heart.

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10-03-2012, 09:24 PM
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Franzen is a lazy scum bag. No way he plays out his entire contract.

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10-03-2012, 09:28 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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I'd love Franzen on the Canucks, contract and all. What would Detroit want for him?

Ideally if we could pull off a three way trade involving Luongo...

But anyways, what would you want?

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10-03-2012, 09:42 PM
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To Florida: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Kyle Quincey, Vancouver 1st 2013

To Detroit: Dmitri Kulikov, Alexander Burrows, Florida 2nd 2013

To Vancouver: Johan Franzen, Jose Theodore, Detroit 3rd 2013

There. A big, crazy, three-way trade. Vancouver gets Franzen, Detroit gets Kulikov, and Florida gets a few solid pieces.

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10-03-2012, 09:44 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
To Florida: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Kyle Quincey, Vancouver 1st 2013

To Detroit: Dmitri Kulikov, Alexander Burrows, Florida 2nd 2013

To Vancouver: Johan Franzen, Jose Theodore, Detroit 3rd 2013

There. A big, crazy, three-way trade. Vancouver gets Franzen, Detroit gets Kulikov, and Florida gets a few solid pieces.


I guess I deserved that.

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10-03-2012, 11:59 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
To Florida: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Kyle Quincey, Vancouver 1st 2013
Acquired for Jose Theodore, Dmitri Kulikov, and FLA 2nd 2013

Quote:
To Detroit: Dmitri Kulikov, Alexander Burrows, Florida 2nd 2013
Acquired for Kyle Quincey, Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen, and DET 3rd 2013

Quote:
To Vancouver: Johan Franzen, Jose Theodore, Detroit 3rd 2013
Acquired for Alex Burrows, Roberto Luongo, VAN 1st 2013

The only team that comes out in the positive is Florida. The others get *****.

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10-04-2012, 12:03 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
To Florida: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Kyle Quincey, Vancouver 1st 2013

To Detroit: Dmitri Kulikov, Alexander Burrows, Florida 2nd 2013

To Vancouver: Johan Franzen, Jose Theodore, Detroit 3rd 2013

There. A big, crazy, three-way trade. Vancouver gets Franzen, Detroit gets Kulikov, and Florida gets a few solid pieces.
Van gives up Luongo, Burrows and their 1st and get Franzen a 3rd and a backup goalie?

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10-04-2012, 12:04 AM
  #12
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Van gives up Luongo, Burrows and their 1st and get Franzen a 3rd and a backup goalie?
I'm assuming it was a joke. At least I hope it was.

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10-04-2012, 12:07 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Acquired for Jose Theodore, Dmitri Kulikov, and FLA 2nd 2013



Acquired for Kyle Quincey, Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen, and DET 3rd 2013



Acquired for Alex Burrows, Roberto Luongo, VAN 1st 2013

The only team that comes out in the positive is Florida. The others get *****.
Florida wouldn't do it though. Kulikov is a part of their future top pair, and Quincey isn't good, Filppula would do worse in FLD than DET, Luongo doesn't have much value, with contract+age with them rebuilding, and a late 1st won't do much.

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10-04-2012, 12:12 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Van gives up Luongo, Burrows and their 1st and get Franzen a 3rd and a backup goalie?
Theodore: 2.46 GAA, .917 save %.
Luongo: 2.41 GAA, .919 save %.
Cap hits: 1.5M / 5.33M.
So for almost 4M more, you get 0.05 more GAA, and .002 save %. Great deal.

Burrows=Franzen (Depends on team, put equal b/c of chemistry with Sedins)
1st>3rd

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10-04-2012, 12:17 AM
  #15
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Theodore: 2.46 GAA, .917 save %.
Luongo: 2.41 GAA, .919 save %.
Cap hits: 1.5M / 5.33M.
So for almost 4M more, you get 0.05 more GAA, and .002 save %. Great deal.

Burrows=Franzen (Depends on team, put equal b/c of chemistry with Sedins)
1st>3rd
Conveniently forgetting the fact Theodore has never done better than this in over a decade and is older than Luongo, and Franzen is older than Burrows.

I can't believe you actually think that is close to fair.

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10-04-2012, 12:21 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Conveniently forgetting the fact Theodore has never done better than this in over a decade and is older than Luongo, and Franzen is older than Burrows.

I can't believe you actually think that is close to fair.
Conveniently forgetting the fact that Luongo is 33 with a lifetime contract, while Theo has a cheap 1 year contract, easy to resign. Burrows right now vs Franzen right now, people take the PWF Franzen.

Never said it was fair, just implying that it's not as bad as you think.

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10-04-2012, 12:24 AM
  #17
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Conveniently forgetting the fact that Luongo is 33 with a lifetime contract, while Theo has a cheap 1 year contract, easy to resign. Burrows right now vs Franzen right now, people take the PWF Franzen.

Never said it was fair, just implying that it's not as bad as you think.
I didn't mention Luongo's contract nor Franzen's lifetime contract either, because I don't feel they are relevant.

And what Theodore still has 3 years on Luongo.

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10-04-2012, 12:35 AM
  #18
DJN21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Theodore: 2.46 GAA, .917 save %.
Luongo: 2.41 GAA, .919 save %.
Cap hits: 1.5M / 5.33M.
So for almost 4M more, you get 0.05 more GAA, and .002 save %. Great deal.

Burrows=Franzen (Depends on team, put equal b/c of chemistry with Sedins)
1st>3rd
yeah you keep trying to convince people Luongo and Theodore are =
good luck my friend(and I dont even like Lu lol)

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10-04-2012, 12:40 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
yeah you keep trying to convince people Luongo and Theodore are =
good luck my friend(and I dont even like Lu lol)
Oh I said they were equal? Don't remember that, just said Lu had just a bit better stats, then a 36? year old goalie, when he has 5+M cap and 8 years.

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10-04-2012, 12:49 AM
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The proposal was a joke responding to Vankiller Whale's post about making this a three-way trade to unload Luongo.

I don't think these are ideal teams. But if Detroit and Vancouver must be included, I'll just go big and freak everyone out:

Chicago gets: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Vancouver 1st 2013
Chicago gives: Ray Emery, Brent Seabrook

Vancouver gets: Johan Franzen, Ray Emery, Detroit 2nd 2013
Vancouver gives: Roberto Luongo, David Booth, Vancouver 1st 2013

Detroit gets: Brent Seabrook, David Booth
Detroit gives: Johan Franzen, Valtteri Filppula, Detroit 2nd 2013

There, now everybody will hate me. Chicago gets a goalie, a second line center, and a high pick. Vancouver gets rid of Luongo and gets a big, Swedish winger for the Sedins. Detroit gets a top defenseman and a hometown winger. See? Now everybody's happy, except for everybody.

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10-04-2012, 12:56 AM
  #21
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
The proposal was a joke responding to Vankiller Whale's post about making this a three-way trade to unload Luongo.

I don't think these are ideal teams. But if Detroit and Vancouver must be included, I'll just go big and freak everyone out:

Chicago gets: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Vancouver 1st 2013
Chicago gives: Ray Emery, Brent Seabrook

Vancouver gets: Johan Franzen, Ray Emery, Detroit 2nd 2013
Vancouver gives: Roberto Luongo, David Booth, Vancouver 1st 2013

Detroit gets: Brent Seabrook, David Booth
Detroit gives: Johan Franzen, Valtteri Filppula, Detroit 2nd 2013

There, now everybody will hate me. Chicago gets a goalie, a second line center, and a high pick. Vancouver gets rid of Luongo and gets a big, Swedish winger for the Sedins. Detroit gets a top defenseman and a hometown winger. See? Now everybody's happy, except for everybody.
Detroit takes that and runs.
Chicago gets solid value.
Vancouver says no fairly easily.

Booth + 1st = Franzen + 2nd.
Luongo >>> Emery

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10-04-2012, 12:58 AM
  #22
DJN21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
The proposal was a joke responding to Vankiller Whale's post about making this a three-way trade to unload Luongo.

I don't think these are ideal teams. But if Detroit and Vancouver must be included, I'll just go big and freak everyone out:

Chicago gets: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Vancouver 1st 2013
Chicago gives: Ray Emery, Brent Seabrook

Vancouver gets: Johan Franzen, Ray Emery, Detroit 2nd 2013
Vancouver gives: Roberto Luongo, David Booth, Vancouver 1st 2013

Detroit gets: Brent Seabrook, David Booth
Detroit gives: Johan Franzen, Valtteri Filppula, Detroit 2nd 2013

There, now everybody will hate me. Chicago gets a goalie, a second line center, and a high pick. Vancouver gets rid of Luongo and gets a big, Swedish winger for the Sedins. Detroit gets a top defenseman and a hometown winger. See? Now everybody's happy, except for everybody.
value isnt far off IMO but trading both franzen and filp kills detroits depth scoring behind Zett and Dats, even with Booth coming back

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10-04-2012, 03:29 AM
  #23
markisonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Detroit takes that and runs.
Chicago gets solid value.
Vancouver says no fairly easily.

Booth + 1st = Franzen + 2nd.
Luongo >>> Emery
I suppose Detroit could send a defenseman to Vancouver, but the trade was getting too complicated even as it stands. You could also switch Emery for Crawford, if that makes it more appealing to Vancouver.

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Old
10-04-2012, 04:17 AM
  #24
stryfe604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
The proposal was a joke responding to Vankiller Whale's post about making this a three-way trade to unload Luongo.

I don't think these are ideal teams. But if Detroit and Vancouver must be included, I'll just go big and freak everyone out:

Chicago gets: Roberto Luongo, Valtteri Filppula, Vancouver 1st 2013
Chicago gives: Ray Emery, Brent Seabrook

Vancouver gets: Johan Franzen, Ray Emery, Detroit 2nd 2013
Vancouver gives: Roberto Luongo, David Booth, Vancouver 1st 2013

Detroit gets: Brent Seabrook, David Booth
Detroit gives: Johan Franzen, Valtteri Filppula, Detroit 2nd 2013

There, now everybody will hate me. Chicago gets a goalie, a second line center, and a high pick. Vancouver gets rid of Luongo and gets a big, Swedish winger for the Sedins. Detroit gets a top defenseman and a hometown winger. See? Now everybody's happy, except for everybody.
Did it go over people's heads that Brent Seabrook is in that trade? Who would Chicago replace him with? I doubt also that much rivalry in one trade would ever go over well.

Next try to replace Chicago with another team. You are actually getting value very close. You should make your own threads. good job man!

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Old
10-04-2012, 04:27 AM
  #25
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I think I'd take Franzen on the Sens. Pretty big hole at RW after Alfredsson retires, and his contract isn't all that bad when you look at his production. I think Zibanejad will have a similar style of play one day, so he could be a decent mentor in that department.

Michalek - Spezza - Franzen
Silfverberg - Turris - Zibanejad

Not a bad top-six in 2 years if everything pans out.

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