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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part V

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:16 AM
  #551
RTN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Alabama-Hunstville Chargers play Div 1 for hockey and Division 2 for all other sports. SHU could say there is already precedent for such a move.
I know there's US schools who do it, I just think the NCAA would try and resist (at least initially) having a Canadian school in Div 1, since quite a few US schools draw players draw from the BCHL. Though, I'm not sure if the NCAA can legally keep them out if they wanted to have a varsity team in Div 1.

Does anyone know if Div 1 requires schools to have an on-campus ice rink? SFU doesn't have one and probably won't any time soon.

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10-02-2012, 11:06 AM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I know there's US schools who do it, I just think the NCAA would try and resist (at least initially) having a Canadian school in Div 1, since quite a few US schools draw players draw from the BCHL. Though, I'm not sure if the NCAA can legally keep them out if they wanted to have a varsity team in Div 1.

Does anyone know if Div 1 requires schools to have an on-campus ice rink? SFU doesn't have one and probably won't any time soon.
I think you're overestimating a tad how much the NCAA cares about hockey. It's a good sport for them and is one of the few other ones that make money in certain areas versus how almost every other sport is a guaranteed money loss everywhere, but they're essentially extremely focused on the actual money makers, football and basketball. Don't think they'd really cringe at the thought of a Canadian university drawing Canadian hockey talent to compete in the Frozen Four, tbqh. They'd have to likely deal with being in the soon to be even more sprawling WCHA, though.

Plus, if anything, I'd honestly imagine that the NCAA would love to have a couple Canadian universities join to expand their market footprint. I really do think that they'd love to have a Canadian team in a bowl game or in March Madness. SFU might even make sense to be a draw for those sports, especially basketball, for Canadians that want to play in the NCAA but would prefer to stay in-country.

..... though their nickname would probably make a few people uncomfortable when they first hear it, haha.

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10-02-2012, 11:37 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
There is a D2 for hockey, but it is only one conference of about 10 teams.

Teams who are normally lower in other sports are permitted to play d1 hockey. RPI is not D1 in any other sport as far as I know, neither is Union.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Alabama-Hunstville Chargers play Div 1 for hockey and Division 2 for all other sports. SHU could say there is already precedent for such a move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
Two other good examples of this, since we are talking about Simon Fraser, are both the U. of Alaska (Fairbanks) and the U. of Alaska-Anchorage. UAF and UAA are D-II schools in other sports, and they are league rivals of Simon Fraser, as all three are members of the Great Northwest Athletic Conference. Both Alaska schools, though, are D-I hockey schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I know there's US schools who do it, I just think the NCAA would try and resist (at least initially) having a Canadian school in Div 1, since quite a few US schools draw players draw from the BCHL. Though, I'm not sure if the NCAA can legally keep them out if they wanted to have a varsity team in Div 1.

Does anyone know if Div 1 requires schools to have an on-campus ice rink? SFU doesn't have one and probably won't any time soon.
The NCAA no longer allows Division 3 schools to play up at Division 1 (*). Division 2 school can, but only in sports (like hockey) which do not have Division 2 championships - but are still subject to D2 scholarship limits. Division 2 schools are required to field teams in at least 10 sports with gender equity requirements.

In 2004, the NCAA passed Proposal 65, prohibiting schools from from playing D1 in one sport while remaining D3 in others. Existing schools (RPI, Clarkson, Colorado College, St. Lawrence, etc) were grandfathered in.

In 2011, SFU became the first non-US team to join the NCAA (Division 2).

(*) Well they can, but are prohibitted from offering scholarships.

From the Canadian colleges/universities to join NCAA? thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loto68 View Post
They don't have to play those other sports at a D-1 level though. Alabama-Huntsville only player D-1 Hockey, their other sports are d-2.
Alabama-Huntsville is an exception grandfathered in by the NCAA, along with a bunch of other D-1 hockey schools (Colorado College, Clarkson, St Lawrence). They were allowed to continue their one D-1 sport and participate in a lower division in other sports. Going forward, all other schools cannot go D-1 in one sport without going D-1 in all (or give up their D-1 scholarships).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I

Quote:
A controversy recently arose in the NCAA over whether schools will continue to be allowed to have one showcased program in Division I with the remainder of the athletic program in a lower division, as is the case of, notably, Johns Hopkins University in lacrosse as well as Colorado College and University of Alabama in Huntsville in ice hockey. This is an especially important issue in hockey, which has no Division II competition and has several schools whose other athletic programs compete in Division II and Division III.

This controversy was resolved at the 2004 NCAA Convention in Nashville, Tennessee when the members supported Proposal 65-1, the amended legislation co-sponsored by Colorado College, Clarkson University, Hartwick College, Johns Hopkins University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Rutgers University-Newark, St. Lawrence University, and SUNY Oneonta. Each school affected by this debate is allowed to grant financial aid to student-athletes who compete in Division I programs in one men's sport and one women's sport. It is still permitted for other schools to place one men's and one women's sport in Division I going forward, but they cannot offer scholarships without bringing the whole program into compliance with Division I rules.
Unless the NCAA is willing to extend the same grandfather clause to prospective Canadian universities, it is very unlikely that they would be able to ice D-1 teams.

http://www.rpi.edu/web/Campus.News/f...caaupdate.html

Quote:
Rensselaer Wins NCAA Vote; Elevates Women’s Ice Hockey to Division I

The National Collegiate Athletic Association Division III membership has voted overwhelmingly to allow Rensselaer and seven other institutions to continue to offer grants-in-aid to Division I student-athletes.

...

Rensselaer, along with Clarkson, Colorado College, Hartwick, Johns Hopkins, SUNY at Oneonta, Rutgers University-Newark, and St. Lawrence, have been battling a proposal that would have eliminated the ability of Division III schools to provide athletic grants-in-aid to students participating at the Division I level. Delegates from Division III schools voted to approve an amendment (65-1) that effectively eliminated the controversial language from the overall Division III reform package.
http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/gove...4-conv-leg.htm

Quote:
What actual changes were made with the adoption of Proposal No. 65 as amended by Proposal No. 65-1?

The eight institutions that offered athletically related financial aid in 2002-03 for their Division I sports may continue that practice, but all other Division III institutions are precluded from doing so. This represents a change from past legislation that permitted any institution sponsoring a Division I sport in 1982-83 to offer athletically related financial aid in their Division I sports.


Last edited by kdb209: 10-02-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
10-02-2012, 12:28 PM
  #554
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My wife and I will be taking my wife's sister to a T-Birds game Saturday. My sister-in-law has never watched a hockey game before. We have glass level club seats and I believe my sister-in-law will leave the game as a fan for life


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10-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #555
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Well its no guarantee there will be the vote in King county now stupid politics. One of the yes votes wants alternate site out of seattle to be looked at per sepa.

Note i may just overreacting cause i easily worry over things.

edit

and yes i am overreacting indeed.

via @chrisdaniels5
https://twitter.com/ChrisDaniels5/st...94555837521921
Quote:
Every indication from KC Councilmembers is this is abt crossing T's, dotting I's, making sure nothing is missed in #SeattIeArena language.


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10-02-2012, 01:39 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Sorry about that.

So, SEATTLE!

Apparently, there's no "NHL-Only" provision in the arena deal:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...only-scenario/

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...hl-and-oilers/
This has never made sense to me. Why do they need the assurance of a franchise moving there to get this arena built? This arena would probably survive in Seattle without an anchor tenant regardless. It would make a lot more sense to have an arena in place before you bring a team there. With an arena in place you can move any struggling team to Seattle. Without an arena you're looking at expansion or moving a team to a temporary Key arena site which means financial losses and a negative experience for the fans.

The political issue with the Key Arena seems to be another obstacle holding this back that makes absolutely no sense. Why do they need to save such an outdated building and have written guarantees that a new arena can not compete with the Key? It's ridiculous. The Key does not attract enough big events and it generates an insignificant profit. They should let the Key die or re-purpose it.

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10-02-2012, 01:46 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
This has never made sense to me. Why do they need the assurance of a franchise moving there to get this arena built? This arena would probably survive in Seattle without an anchor tenant regardless. It would make a lot more sense to have an arena in place before you bring a team there. With an arena in place you can move any struggling team to Seattle. Without an arena you're looking at expansion or moving a team to a temporary Key arena site which means financial losses and a negative experience for the fans.

The political issue with the Key Arena seems to be another obstacle holding this back that makes absolutely no sense. Why do they need to save such an outdated building and have written guarantees that a new arena can not compete with the Key? It's ridiculous. The Key does not attract enough big events and it generates an insignificant profit. They should let the Key die or re-purpose it.
It has to do with repaying public debt. The city/county will not approve it unless the debt gets repaid. Its makes it much harder to repay that public debt if there is no major tenant. Majority of the repaying of the public debt will come from NBA/NHL events.

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10-02-2012, 01:56 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
The political issue with the Key Arena seems to be another obstacle holding this back that makes absolutely no sense. Why do they need to save such an outdated building and have written guarantees that a new arena can not compete with the Key? It's ridiculous. The Key does not attract enough big events and it generates an insignificant profit. They should let the Key die or re-purpose it.
Two words: The Astrodome.

It's going to cost the City of Houston at least $125 million to do SOMETHING with the Astrodome.
-- Tearing it down costs more than they can afford.
-- Renovating it costs triple the price of tearing it down.
-- Doing NOTHING only costs $2 million a year in insurance.

Seattle doesn't want a situation where Key is money down the drain. Keeping it operational as a venue that can at least break even is in their best interest.

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10-03-2012, 10:53 AM
  #559
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http://www.king5.com/news/cities/bel...172377311.html

Chris Daniels' story on the County Council hearing from yesterday. Looks as if the issue of Bellevue's arena plan came up in the hearing, as two of the council members who represent that area had to come out and defend their support of the Hansen plan after some Bellevue developers sent a nasty letter crying foul about its effect on a potential Bellevue arena.

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10-03-2012, 11:21 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Sorry about that.

So, SEATTLE!

Apparently, there's no "NHL-Only" provision in the arena deal:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...only-scenario/



http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...hl-and-oilers/

Hrmm It never made sense to just have a NHL only for a 450 million arena. Need dual anchor tenants

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10-03-2012, 11:21 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
http://www.king5.com/news/cities/bel...172377311.html

Chris Daniels' story on the County Council hearing from yesterday. Looks as if the issue of Bellevue's arena plan came up in the hearing, as two of the council members who represent that area had to come out and defend their support of the Hansen plan after some Bellevue developers sent a nasty letter crying foul about its effect on a potential Bellevue arena.
You snooze, you lose. Deal with it Bellevue.

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10-03-2012, 11:23 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
http://www.king5.com/news/cities/bel...172377311.html

Chris Daniels' story on the County Council hearing from yesterday. Looks as if the issue of Bellevue's arena plan came up in the hearing, as two of the council members who represent that area had to come out and defend their support of the Hansen plan after some Bellevue developers sent a nasty letter crying foul about its effect on a potential Bellevue arena.
There is no Bellevue plan and no money to fund it. There is no stopping them to come out with a plan and a means to fund it. They lose.

they being Bellevue arena folks

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10-03-2012, 11:25 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
Two other good examples of this, since we are talking about Simon Fraser, are both the U. of Alaska (Fairbanks) and the U. of Alaska-Anchorage. UAF and UAA are D-II schools in other sports, and they are league rivals of Simon Fraser, as all three are members of the Great Northwest Athletic Conference. Both Alaska schools, though, are D-I hockey schools.
Maybe we can add the canadian schools/alaska schools

So Hypothetical P12 Hockey:

UAA
UAF
USF
UW
WSU
UO
OSU

How many canadian colleges in Alberta/BC play hockey collegitely.

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10-03-2012, 11:27 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I know there's US schools who do it, I just think the NCAA would try and resist (at least initially) having a Canadian school in Div 1, since quite a few US schools draw players draw from the BCHL. Though, I'm not sure if the NCAA can legally keep them out if they wanted to have a varsity team in Div 1.

Does anyone know if Div 1 requires schools to have an on-campus ice rink? SFU doesn't have one and probably won't any time soon.
They don't require on campus football or basketball fields...So I don't think they would make that requirement for Hockey

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10-03-2012, 02:26 PM
  #565
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It's not required. The first school I thought of was UNO. Their campus is about 5 miles west of downtown but they play hockey in downtown Omaha.

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10-03-2012, 06:55 PM
  #566
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You snooze, you lose. Deal with it Bellevue.
That's right......And I would prefer honestly a Bellevue location over a Seattle one.....

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10-03-2012, 11:33 PM
  #567
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Seattle Sockeyes...

Orange and green like Miami Hurricanes...



With a pacific northwest inspired Sockeye logo....


Green and orange just like the actual fish...

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10-04-2012, 12:17 AM
  #568
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10-04-2012, 12:34 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Seattle Sockeyes...

Orange and green like Miami Hurricanes...



With a pacific northwest inspired Sockeye logo....


Green and orange just like the actual fish...
I don't think its gonna be orange and green could confuse it with the sonics green/yellow colors.

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10-04-2012, 08:57 AM
  #570
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That's right......And I would prefer honestly a Bellevue location over a Seattle one.....
Not me, Better traffic set up in the SODO location. ALthough if you live in the eastside it makes more sense I suppose.

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10-04-2012, 10:32 AM
  #571
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Scary and DELICIOUS - sockeye is the BEST (maybe Copper River)
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I don't think its gonna be orange and green could confuse it with the sonics green/yellow colors.
Meh. All of the teams in Pittsburgh have the same colors. The Seahawks and Mariners have similar colors. If the Sonics and the NHL are going to share a facility it makes sense that they have similar colors from an aesthetic design standpoint. Either way, it's certain that green will be in there somewhere. It's Seattle, they virtually have no choice. Haha.

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10-04-2012, 01:24 PM
  #572
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Green blue with red accents.

I like the sockeyes or even bringing back the metropolitans

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10-04-2012, 02:04 PM
  #573
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I don't think its gonna be orange and green could confuse it with the sonics green/yellow colors.
Confuses? Tons of teams have the same colors in the same city:
Panthers/Heat, Knicks/Islanders/Mets, Blues/Rams, Capitals/Bullets/Nationals, All of Pittsburgh...

Quote:
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Scary and DELICIOUS - sockeye is the BEST (maybe Copper River)

Meh. All of the teams in Pittsburgh have the same colors. The Seahawks and Mariners have similar colors. If the Sonics and the NHL are going to share a facility it makes sense that they have similar colors from an aesthetic design standpoint. Either way, it's certain that green will be in there somewhere. It's Seattle, they virtually have no choice. Haha.
exactly. I like it.

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10-05-2012, 10:29 AM
  #574
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Confuses? Tons of teams have the same colors in the same city:
Panthers/Heat, Knicks/Islanders/Mets, Blues/Rams, Capitals/Bullets/Nationals, All of Pittsburgh...



exactly. I like it.
they might even go with rainbow but still green is in there

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10-08-2012, 07:16 PM
  #575
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Updates via @chrisdaniels5 on the arena

There is a lot so i'll summarize it. City and Council have agreed on amendments to the MOU and are set to approve it via a joint vote next Monday October the 15th. City approved amendments today County will tomorrow.



Interlocal agreement update

http://www.king5.com/news/arena/Seat...173197851.html

MOU update

http://www.king5.com/news/arena/Seat...173197151.html


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