The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
So what happens if he buys the team and is unable to qualify for league revenue sharing? In essence he is then a big loser and the city takes it once again on the chin when JIG files for BK!
Well, it didn't cost the businesses much to say that, did it? So, over the past 3 years we've moved from:
"Westgate businesses will form the basis for a CFD providing $25 million annually toward the Coyotes" (Reinsdorf MOU).
to
"Westgate businesses say that they have some businesses lined up to sign leases if the Coyotes situation is resolved".
Is it any wonder that some folks are just a tad skeptical of the claims of the COG and its various staff and hangers-on?
Agree it's a bit of a sell job. Until we see new business move in we won't know for sure.
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Originally Posted by Whileee
Maybe that's why she is so much more supportive of subsidies to the Coyotes now that it isn't meant to come from a Westgate-based CFD. She seems much more comfortable using taxpayer money to subsidize the Coyotes.
Hate to blow your theory out of the water but Clark voted against selling the parking bonds in the Hulsizer deal. And during the workshop yesterday she grilled Skeete quite hard on his numbers.
And during the workshop yesterday she grilled Skeete quite hard on his numbers.
Yeah, I noticed. She thanked him for his work but said his numbers were basically meaningless, just before Scenerio 2, "Yes to Tax, No to Yotes" lol. It just happened to be up next but I thought that was funny timing.
^ That kid seems douchier every time I see him. Also playing rod hockey on a segway leaning forward, that can't be safe.
Lot of mixed information/opinion here. Who would it actually benefit to delay the signing of a lease? A group that wants to keep the team there like Jameson or someone trying to get out or rearrange the lease?
OT but more than half of the world would be very happy if an accident occurred to him, therefore, doing stuff on segway on a 1inch rail suspended 1000s of feets above the Arizona desert is the safest thing around.
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Originally Posted by TheLegend
...Hate to blow your theory out of the water but Clark voted against selling the parking bonds in the Hulsizer deal. And during the workshop yesterday she grilled Skeete quite hard on his numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_99
Yeah, I noticed. She thanked him for his work but said his numbers were basically meaningless, just before Scenerio 2, "Yes to Tax, No to Yotes" lol. It just happened to be up next but I thought that was funny timing.
Was that about the leaked ''$6M is the normal price for an AMF elsewhere'' or about some others numbers ?
I'm sure she would have cooked him with pleasure for giving GWI the much needed proof the whole AMF is a gold plated diamond wrapped in crystal gift.
OT but more than half of the world would be very happy if an accident occurred to him, therefore, doing stuff on segway on a 1inch rail suspended 1000s of feets above the Arizona desert is the safest thing around.
Was that about the leaked ''$6M is the normal price for an AMF elsewhere'' or about some others numbers ?
I'm sure she would have cooked him with pleasure for giving GWI the much needed proof the whole AMF is a gold plated diamond wrapped in crystal gift.
Didn't Skeete say the AMF could actually be as low as $4 million or as high as $8 or$10 million but because they have done so little research they really have no clue so he simply chose $6million?
Agree it's a bit of a sell job. Until we see new business move in we won't know for sure.
Hate to blow your theory out of the water but Clark voted against selling the parking bonds in the Hulsizer deal. And during the workshop yesterday she grilled Skeete quite hard on his numbers.
I think that Clark didn't like the cut of Hulsizer's jib. She never seemed to warm to him the way she has to Jamison.
I'm sure Skeete was shaking in his boots over Clark's grilling. She certainly didn't seem all that interested in "grilling" him over the original lease and financial justifications. Maybe she is feeling a bit of political heat over the timing of these deliberations in relation to the upcoming election and feels that she should at least look like she cares about the taxpayers. Do you think she has even the remotest of intentions to change her position now? Has she finally figured out that Jamison is not going to purchase the Jobing.com?
I think that Clark didn't like the cut of Hulsizer's jib. She never seemed to warm to him the way she has to Jamison.
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She didn't like the way that deal was structured. Had nothing to do with Hulsizer himself.
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I'm sure Skeete was shaking in his boots over Clark's grilling. She certainly didn't seem all that interested in "grilling" him over the original lease and financial justifications. Maybe she is feeling a bit of political heat over the timing of these deliberations in relation to the upcoming election and feels that she should at least look like she cares about the taxpayers. Do you think she has even the remotest of intentions to change her position now? Has she finally figured out that Jamison is not going to purchase the Jobing.com?
She was nailing down the accuracy of Skeete's numbers. Something a good representative of government should do. Scruggs, Lieberman and Alavarez spent their time either pointing fingers or throwing people under busses. Lieberman did make an attempt to challenge Skeete on his numbers but did more babbling than anything.
The purchase of the arena wasn't brought up into the session. Dunno where you get what she thinks about selling comes from?? She's on record as saying getting the arena off the books would be a positive thing for the city.
She didn't like the way that deal was structured. Had nothing to do with Hulsizer himself.
She was nailing down the accuracy of Skeete's numbers. Something a good representative of government should do. Scruggs, Lieberman and Alavarez spent their time either pointing fingers or throwing people under busses. Lieberman did make an attempt to challenge Skeete on his numbers but did more babbling than anything.
The purchase of the arena wasn't brought up into the session. Dunno where you get what she thinks about selling comes from?? She's on record as saying getting the arena off the books would be a positive thing for the city.
Legend, I know you are better than this, but honestly man, which part of numbers is more accurate ? The original AMF that goes up to an average of $15M per year or the one that got leaked at $6M per year ?
While I understand Clark or any other council member question the numbers, and I agree with you, it's their job, the numbers she should be questioning is the $324M deal in first place.
Makes perfect sense...... pay out 15M annually to receive 2.5M. Might as well just buy some
Facebook stock.
The funny part is Facebook Stocks are pretty damn cheap right now. Peoples laugh at that crappy IPO but the smart investors who get in now will look like freaking genius in a decade or so.
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She was nailing down the accuracy of Skeete's numbers. Something a good representative of government should do. Scruggs, Lieberman and Alavarez spent their time either pointing fingers or throwing people under busses. Lieberman did make an attempt to challenge Skeete on his numbers but did more babbling than anything.
Something a good representative of government should do. Sure if it was actually being done for the right reasons. But, Joyce was doing it all for show and votes. Show the people you care by "asking" the tough questions so they will be sympathetic to you when the votes are cast, but at the end of the day, everyone and their coyote knows that it doesn't matter if the CoG is giving Jamison $324M or $1,000M, Joyce will always be voting Yes to give Jamison the AMF.
The funny part is Facebook Stocks are pretty damn cheap right now. Peoples laugh at that crappy IPO but the smart investors who get in now will look like freaking genius in a decade or so.
Assuming of course FB is still in existence 10 years from now. I wouldn't bet the farm on that... but I digress.
She didn't like the way that deal was structured. Had nothing to do with Hulsizer himself.
She was nailing down the accuracy of Skeete's numbers. Something a good representative of government should do. Scruggs, Lieberman and Alavarez spent their time either pointing fingers or throwing people under busses. Lieberman did make an attempt to challenge Skeete on his numbers but did more babbling than anything.
The purchase of the arena wasn't brought up into the session. Dunno where you get what she thinks about selling comes from?? She's on record as saying getting the arena off the books would be a positive thing for the city.
Well, it's hard not to get the impression that Clark has a soft spot for Jamison. Cripes, she keeps apologizing to the guy, even though he refuses to tell her who is buying the team and has put the whole deal in peril with his endless delays.
As for the arena purchase, how soon some forget. Clark has previously touted Jamison's option to purchase the team as a positive aspect of the lease agreement, even though any rational person knows that this is just a pipe dream.
You don't remember this?
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Councilwoman Joyce Clark said Jamison has the option within five years to buy the arena at a price that would cover the city's outstanding bond debt on the facility. Glendale also would be relieved of the management fee payment.
In my view, Clark has just decided that the city should be "all in" on the Coyotes lease, and is prepared to accept and sell the patently misleading figures that Beasley and now Skeete have been promoting. Her performance in council at this point is just for show, in my opinion. If she was really concerned about the figures she would have been all over the deal when it was first presented. Now it just seems like she is trying to stand up for the taxpayers with her "tough" questions. "Talk is cheap", has never sounded more appropriate than this.
i think ... elaine seems to have grown a pair this past year, but it's just a bit too late. joyce is a sycophant and adds nothing to this process above ironic entertainment value. joe might fall asleep and get confused but at least he seems to feel a need to weed thru the BS being served up by staff, consultants, the league and the 3 year long line of tire-kickers.
but the voters elected these wizards and ultimately they are responsible.
Last edited by GuelphStormer: 10-04-2012 at 09:00 AM.
I watched the meeting from the video archive. Here's what stood out to me, in no particular order:
- After 30 days of attempting to renegotiate the deal, there is not even a draft.
- Workshop did not provide direction to enter into an agreement.
- Direction was given to create a draft of a new agreement.
- The revised agreement will have to be subsequently approved by vote of council.
- The past 30 days is the first time performance standards were ever discussed
- JIG can pay a $900k penalty and not host any non-hockey events
- JIG would rather have $12MM in AMF than $12MM in capital improvement to the building
- The revised payment structure was assumed to comply with the Gift Clause because it is a lower NPV total than the original agreement. No new analysis was done. They're still using the Pollack report and the loss avoidance forecast therein.
- Skeete brought the original agreement back to the council and told them the city could not afford it.
- Skeete was first person to introduce the most basic concepts of standard management agreements
- Alvarez is not qualified to review any of the materials
- Clark is barely qualified to review some of the materials
- Lieberman is qualified to review the materials but appears senile
- Martinez and Frate do not appear interested in reviewing the materials
- Knaack is not convinced the deal is good for the city
- Scruggs is the only competent person on the council
We are not even close to a resolution in this matter. They have to draft a new agreement, even if they can borrow elements from the original deal, that would likely still take weeks.
Interesting to me:
- JIG sacrificed the capital improvement payments to get the max AMF. This is not what an entity that is going to later buy the arena would do. (as if any informed person needed additional evidence that JIG buying the arena is a complete hoax.)
- Penalty of only $900k if there are no non-hockey events. This is a strong indication that JIG is not committed to programming the arena to it's maximum potential.
- Alvarez doesn't understand the difference between a utilities franchise and a hockey franchise
- Clark thinks they can simply change two areas of the agreement and be done. She has no comprehension of the ripple effects of the changes or how agreements are drafted.
- Scruggs encouraged Skeete to go through all four scenarios. The numbers in the scenarios seem much more realistic this time around. Clark did not like seeing accurate numbers and complained that Skeete wasn't doing enough to pump up the value of the Coyotes. Lieberman had a toddler-like fit about not being called on to speak but ultimately explained to Clark that it's because the Coyotes don't really generate a profit for anyone.
- The city has contradicted their own Gift Clause analysis in every possible way (AMF, revenues, etc)
So, I'm guessing by the time all the hoops are gone through, not even including what potential CBA stuff might affect it, we're looking at late Nov at the EARLIEST before we can even start to see resolution.
Perfect.
They have to draft a new agreement, even if they can borrow elements from the original deal, that would likely still take weeks. 
