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Stars & Maple Leafs (Kadri)

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Old
10-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #51
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I don't know anything about Fraser, but 37 goals in the AHL is pretty damn good... Especially considering it's his first AHL season.

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10-04-2012, 01:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by duxfan8 View Post
Kadri for Oleskiak and Fraser is a good starting point, but there's no incentive for either team to do this anytime soon
Ya. That would never happen from Dallas' prospective.

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10-04-2012, 02:09 PM
  #53
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I don't know anything about Fraser, but 37 goals in the AHL is pretty damn good... Especially considering it's his first AHL season.
Fraser was a undrafted free agent who is turning into a really nice prospect for the Stars. He is definitely a goal scorer. He plays wing and usually finds himself in the right areas. His defensive game needs to come along more before his an NHL regular. He played in 73 games and scored 37 goals in his first AHL season.

Here's a nice write up about his back story if you're interested: http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/6/...12-matt-fraser

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10-04-2012, 06:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by duxfan8 View Post
Kadri for Oleskiak and Fraser is a good starting point, but there's no incentive for either team to do this anytime soon

You must have been at an allnight party to suggest this starting point!

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10-04-2012, 07:05 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Glennie + Besko + 3rd for Kadri + 2nd
Besko ? is that a nickname for a prospect ?

Glenni for Kadri already favours Dallas, plus we upgrade a pick

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10-04-2012, 07:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Brayden Schenn has 1 more point in 12 more games played, good for a 0.31 PPG, so no, I didn't forget about Brayden Schenn.
It's nitpicking, but Schenn has 29 pts in 74 NHL games (0.39 ppg).

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10-04-2012, 08:31 PM
  #57
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My god...I would love to see the poll on this. Is Scrivens the best goalie prospect in the league? Would he get shutout on that one? Or a couple pity votes?
I'm a leafs fan and I don't even think Scrivens is the best goalie prospect in our own system.

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10-04-2012, 09:27 PM
  #58
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The no-name prospect that was second in AHL goal scoring in his rookie season

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10-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #59
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That 2015 4th rounder is an absolute deal-breaker...Both teams say no.

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10-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #60
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So many people underrating Stars prospects just because they're not "big names." Fraser + Oleksiak for Kardi? Give me a break.

Fraser scored 37 Goals in his rookie AHL season. On a horrible, horrible Texas team. Yea, no name prospect. Just because YOU as a Toronto fan don't pay attention to prospects from Dallas doesn't make his stats and progress less meaningful.

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10-04-2012, 09:55 PM
  #61
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This entire thread is just facepalm. The Scrivens post was the most facepalm of all.

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10-04-2012, 10:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Hmm Campbell probably isn't a good enough goalie prospect to warrant moving Kadri. I'd include Kadri in a move for one of Bernier/Holtby/Markstrom though (not saying they're the least bit available).
Campbell should be a part of that group. His numbers in juniors don't justify his ability at all.

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10-05-2012, 12:05 AM
  #63
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The lunacy in Toronto is amusing. This lockout needs to go longer so that we can have more and more of these threads

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10-05-2012, 12:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
The lunacy in Toronto is amusing. This lockout needs to go longer so that we can have more and more of these threads
Erm, I don't think you realize who's making these threads. Hint: it's not Leafs fans.

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10-05-2012, 12:44 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Hmm Campbell probably isn't a good enough goalie prospect to warrant moving Kadri. I'd include Kadri in a move for one of Bernier/Holtby/Markstrom though (not saying they're the least bit available).
Kadri won't get you Bernier/Holtby/Markstrom. Not a chance.

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10-05-2012, 12:53 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Kadri won't get you Bernier/Holtby/Markstrom. Not a chance.
I could see him going for Bernier.

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10-05-2012, 01:08 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
So many people underrating Stars prospects just because they're not "big names." Fraser + Oleksiak for Kardi? Give me a break.

Fraser scored 37 Goals in his rookie AHL season. On a horrible, horrible Texas team. Yea, no name prospect. Just because YOU as a Toronto fan don't pay attention to prospects from Dallas doesn't make his stats and progress less meaningful.
Thank you! I was trying to make that point, I guess Toronto doesn't need more Wingers since they have an abundance (Ashton, Deschamps, Mueller etc.)

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10-05-2012, 01:11 AM
  #68
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And alot of people are saying Besko doesn't have any value anymore because he had a down year, last year. Even though the team gave up 250+ goals! His rookie year wasn't bad, and the kid has great size for a goalie, 6'5.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=106792
(Rookie Season)
2010-11 Idaho Steelheads ECHL 20[GP] 1149[Min] 45[GA] 0 1 2.35[GAA] 10[W] 5[L] 4[OTL] 582 0.928[S%]
2010-11 Texas Stars AHL 18[GP] 978[Min] 42[GA] 5 1 2.58[GAA] 7[W] 8[L] 1[OTL] 487 0.921[S%]


Not bad for his rookie season.
The kid still has potential.


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Old
10-05-2012, 02:30 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Kadri won't get you Bernier/Holtby/Markstrom. Not a chance.
I could see if Lou gets traded to Florida as rumored, that markstrom becomes tradable (not unnessesary to have though) but with the leafs at one point expressing interest I can see them being a match. The leafs would probably add something to Kadri, maybe a 2nd, I think people would be surprised at the return in that kind I trade (for example not Kadri and a 1st, something less)

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10-05-2012, 03:22 AM
  #70
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Hilarious, he's not even in the same room that that conversation is being had.
It's so true. Even as a Leaf fan, this is so funny and so true.

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:33 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I could see him going for Bernier.
If I GMed the Kings I really would not touch that. Kadri is semidamaged goods. Bernier is not, even though he hasn't proved a lot.

Markström for Kadri is also complete madness IMO. Markström might be the best golieprospect right now, and even if you won't get much for golies these days I think he's worth a lot more then Kadri.

I would think about Holtby if I got the offer.

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10-05-2012, 06:49 AM
  #72
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Campbell should be a part of that group. His numbers in juniors don't justify his ability at all.
No, he really shouldn't. Holtby/Bernier/Markstrom have all shown some level of success at the NHL, a major step up from a guy like Campbell who hasn't.

That being said, the Leafs don't want/need any of those 3, and certainly don't want need / a guy like Campbell. They've got quite a few goaltending prospects at various stages of development, and burning your best forward prospect on another is a slap in the face to every single one of them.

What the Leafs need, in the context of a goaltender, is either a proven #1, or a guy with some experience that can backup / tandem with James Reimer. They're not going to pay a Colorado-like premium that was paid for Semyon Varlamov. It simply doesn't make sense when you've got so many good young goaltenders, one of whom is a legitimate NHL goalie right now.

People need to realize, that in any trade, both teams have to accomplish something that works towards their goals. The "goal" for Toronto isn't to trade Kadri. The goal is to fill one of the weaknesses on the team. (#1C, #1G, top 4 shutdown dman) If doing so costs us Kadri, so be it.

The goal for Dallas, at least in the context of this thread, seems to be to get younger / better young players.

Only once those needs are filled, or deemed incapable of filling, then the Leafs should concern themselves with protecting value in the assets they have. If filling one/some of the above needs costs the team guys like MacArthur and Lombardi, then the Leafs don't have to trade Kadri to protect his value. They just have to play him. If there isn't a move to be made to satisfy the Leafs needs, they've gotta pick between Kadri and MacArthur as to who they dump for futures.

However, in trading for futures, the last thing the Leafs are going to do is trade for a guy that they're incapable of making full use of like Kadri right now. If it's a forward, it's gotta be a younger guy who's still got a year or two before potentially needing an NHL spot to continue his development. If it's a stay-at-home dman (like Oleksiak), we can make use at both the NHL and AHL level. If it's a puckmover, interest is minimal with guys like Gardiner/Rielly/Percy. Barring the ability to get one of those types of assets, we'll just auction one off for the best draft pick.

That being said, a package that should be of interest to the Leafs is something along the lines of Kadri + MacArthur + Lombardi for a guy like Brendan Morrow and a 1st round pick.

While it doesn't satisfy any glaring holes, the move from MacArthur to Morrow probably suits the team slightly better, as the Leafs would trade goalscoring for grit in the context of Mac who may find his way to our 3rd line. Furthermore, Toronto gets a gritty and experienced powerforward who can play on any of the 3 lines, teach something to the younger guys like Ashton/Frattin/Ross/Biggs. The 1st offsets losing your best prospect and a valuable top 6 contributor for a 33 year old impending UFA.

Dallas gets a proven top 6 winger capable of potting 20+ (and first rights on signing him), a depth centre, and rapidly accelerates their development curve by getting Kadri who will play right away, instead of waiting 2-4 years for the guy to make the NHL.

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Old
10-05-2012, 06:57 AM
  #73
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No, he really shouldn't. Holtby/Bernier/Markstrom have all shown some level of success at the NHL, a major step up from a guy like Campbell who hasn't.

That being said, the Leafs don't want/need any of those 3, and certainly don't want need / a guy like Campbell. They've got quite a few goaltending prospects at various stages of development, and burning your best forward prospect on another is a slap in the face to every single one of them.

What the Leafs need, in the context of a goaltender, is either a proven #1, or a guy with some experience that can backup / tandem with James Reimer. They're not going to pay a Colorado-like premium that was paid for Semyon Varlamov. It simply doesn't make sense when you've got so many good young goaltenders, one of whom is a legitimate NHL goalie right now.

People need to realize, that in any trade, both teams have to accomplish something that works towards their goals. The "goal" for Toronto isn't to trade Kadri. The goal is to fill one of the weaknesses on the team. (#1C, #1G, top 4 shutdown dman) If doing so costs us Kadri, so be it.

The goal for Dallas, at least in the context of this thread, seems to be to get younger / better young players.

Only once those needs are filled, or deemed incapable of filling, then the Leafs should concern themselves with protecting value in the assets they have. If filling one/some of the above needs costs the team guys like MacArthur and Lombardi, then the Leafs don't have to trade Kadri to protect his value. They just have to play him. If there isn't a move to be made to satisfy the Leafs needs, they've gotta pick between Kadri and MacArthur as to who they dump for futures.

However, in trading for futures, the last thing the Leafs are going to do is trade for a guy that they're incapable of making full use of like Kadri right now. If it's a forward, it's gotta be a younger guy who's still got a year or two before potentially needing an NHL spot to continue his development. If it's a stay-at-home dman (like Oleksiak), we can make use at both the NHL and AHL level. If it's a puckmover, interest is minimal with guys like Gardiner/Rielly/Percy. Barring the ability to get one of those types of assets, we'll just auction one off for the best draft pick.

That being said, a package that should be of interest to the Leafs is something along the lines of Kadri + MacArthur + Lombardi for a guy like Brendan Morrow and a 1st round pick.

While it doesn't satisfy any glaring holes, the move from MacArthur to Morrow probably suits the team slightly better, as the Leafs would trade goalscoring for grit in the context of Mac who may find his way to our 3rd line. Furthermore, Toronto gets a gritty and experienced powerforward who can play on any of the 3 lines, teach something to the younger guys like Ashton/Frattin/Ross/Biggs. The 1st offsets losing your best prospect and a valuable top 6 contributor for a 33 year old impending UFA.

Dallas gets a proven top 6 winger capable of potting 20+ (and first rights on signing him), a depth centre, and rapidly accelerates their development curve by getting Kadri who will play right away, instead of waiting 2-4 years for the guy to make the NHL.
Not doing a first, but Morrow + 2nd for Kadri is something I'd do, especially if one of our younger kids forces their way up.

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:13 AM
  #74
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Not doing a first, but Morrow + 2nd for Kadri is something I'd do, especially if one of our younger kids forces their way up.
Needs to be the first when talking about giving up a top prospect like Kadri and a potentially valuable deadline piece like MacArthur (who needs to be involved because of roster/cap issues, and isn't capable of getting the Leafs a 1st at the beginning of the year). Leafs could probably include a 3rd or a mid-level prospect to facilitate that.

If the Stars didn't paticularily care about getting MacArthur, and really wanted to avoid losing a first. The play would be to do that trade, and then try to flip Mac for a first at the deadline. Sure, they could do the same with Morrow, but then they don't get Kadri right away.

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10-05-2012, 10:21 AM
  #75
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Needs to be the first when talking about giving up a top prospect like Kadri and a potentially valuable deadline piece like MacArthur (who needs to be involved because of roster/cap issues, and isn't capable of getting the Leafs a 1st at the beginning of the year). Leafs could probably include a 3rd or a mid-level prospect to facilitate that.

If the Stars didn't paticularily care about getting MacArthur, and really wanted to avoid losing a first. The play would be to do that trade, and then try to flip Mac for a first at the deadline. Sure, they could do the same with Morrow, but then they don't get Kadri right away.
The Leafs aren't in a place to be trading valuable youth in Kadri for a 33 year old Morrow who only has this year left on his deal. Morrow is a win now type of player that contenders trade for. Not playoff hopeful teams like the Leafs.

Besides Morrow is another winger with the wing spot already being the teams greatest strength. Morrow is also over-rated at this point in his career based on his past accomplishments.

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