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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

The time is now for binding arbitration.

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10-04-2012, 02:33 PM
  #1
AHockeyGameBrokeOut*
 
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The time is now for binding arbitration.

I see lots of threads calling for boycotts, calling the NHL offices, sending emails, posting on Twitter or Facebook, but let's be realistic. That's not going to get us our season or our sport back. It's not efficient, effective, or concise.

What we need is for a third party group backed by the fans to force the NHL to give us a season. We need to lock the players and owners in a guarded room with third party arbitrators present until they decide to give us a season.

Do we really care who gets 50%, who gets 57%, etc.? No, we don't. However, we're losing out on regular season games now. It shouldn't take all of this.

If I have to read one more bad interview with Don or Steve Fehr, Bill Daly, Gary Bettman or any player in the league looking for a soapbox, I'm going to lose it.

The NHL and the NHLPA are both wrong and we know it. All it would take is one committed group of fans and one arbitration team and we'd have a season this week.

Are you with me? If they want to lockout, we should lock them down.

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10-04-2012, 02:39 PM
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Crescent Street
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
I see lots of threads calling for boycotts, calling the NHL offices, sending emails, posting on Twitter or Facebook, but let's be realistic. That's not going to get us our season or our sport back. It's not efficient, effective, or concise.

What we need is for a third party group backed by the fans to force the NHL to give us a season. We need to lock the players and owners in a guarded room with third party arbitrators present until they decide to give us a season.

Do we really care who gets 50%, who gets 57%, etc.? No, we don't. However, we're losing out on regular season games now. It shouldn't take all of this.

If I have to read one more bad interview with Don or Steve Fehr, Bill Daly, Gary Bettman or any player in the league looking for a soapbox, I'm going to lose it.

The NHL and the NHLPA are both wrong and we know it. All it would take is one committed group of fans and one arbitration team and we'd have a season this week.

Are you with me? If they want to lockout, we should lock them down.
Third party will never happen because both the owners and players won't be getting what they ultimately want. So they'll never agree to bringing one in.

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10-04-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Third party will never happen because both the owners and players won't be getting what they ultimately want. So they'll never agree to bringing one in.
That's why a group of fans should go in and do what they want, regardless of what the NHL and NHLPA want...

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10-04-2012, 03:16 PM
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Too much risk involved for both sides. I doubt they ever agree to binding arbitration. Mediators, yes. But, the mediator only gives opinions and then they are supposed to continue negotiating off those opinions. If they are going to use binding arbitration, might as well go to the casino and spin the roulette wheel. red-owners get there latest offer. black-use the players latest offer. green-spin again.

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10-04-2012, 03:18 PM
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Even if you could force binding arbitration on the two sides, that would just set up more animosity and we'd be right back here in 6 years.

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10-04-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Even if you could force binding arbitration on the two sides, that would just set up more animosity and we'd be right back here in 6 years.
Not if you set up binding arbitration in advance for that as well...

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10-04-2012, 03:57 PM
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That's a great idea.

All it requires is getting two parties who can't agree on how to split the bill for lunch to agree on a choice of arbitrator.

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10-04-2012, 05:22 PM
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Binding arbitration would favour the league incredibly in this work stoppage. As a teacher in Manitoba, we've had binding arbitration since the 1960s, giving up the right to strike for it. It has worked tremendously for us because the contracts are negotiated on a school division by school division basis. You get to arbitration and the arbitrator looks at the last deal signed by another division with their teachers and you essentially get that deal with maybe a 0.5% increase on that. Arbitration is all about comparables. In this scenario, the arbitrator would be using the NFL and NBA as comparables, adjusting the numbers a bit to the NHL's books. That would heavily favour the league, the best the players could hope for would be a 50% cut IMO.

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10-04-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
That's why a group of fans should go in and do what they want, regardless of what the NHL and NHLPA want...
How exactly are the fans coercing the NHLPA / NHL to accept an arbitrator in the first place, let alone a specific person / tribunal / entity to perform the arbitration? Hell, even a Federal arbitration proceeding would likely ruffle some feathers if Canadian authority figures were not involved as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love an arbitration and it sounds like Daly is somewhat open to the concept, but I just don't see what the fans have to do with any of it.

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10-04-2012, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
That's why a group of fans should go in and do what they want, regardless of what the NHL and NHLPA want...
The fans can't do what they want. They can make a petition and send it around asking for arbitration or mediation but ultimately, the league and union will have to agree to the process and we have no real power to make them do so.

I guess we could say that if you really care about the game and the fans, then you'll allow an unbiased participant to make a deal that is fair to both sides.

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10-04-2012, 07:03 PM
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Fans are doing what they can. Voice their anger about the issue because sadly in pro-sports, speaking with your money may cost you more than the other party.

Tho, hearing 40k people chant ''Bull****'' in Seattle (and in Baltimore the night before) after replacement refs effed up a call and have it aired on national TV might make you ask yourself again if you're doing everything right.

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10-04-2012, 07:21 PM
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arbitration is a non-starter for the owners. It would require them to open their books and show how much money they are actually losing, which either proves they are lying or significantly decreases franchise values if they were telling the truth.

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10-04-2012, 07:48 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love an arbitration and it sounds like Daly is somewhat open to the concept, but I just don't see what the fans have to do with any of it.
i believe daly said he was open to mediation, not binding arbitration.

---

if this dispute was boiled down to, say, years before free agency and maximum length of contracts [with the parties in the same universe] i could see arbitration as a remote possibility. but, there is no way in hell the owners would allow such fundamental aspects of the business (i.e. definition of HRR, players' cut, revenue sharing) to ever, ever, ever be dictated by a third party.

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10-04-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
That's a great idea.

All it requires is getting two parties who can't agree on how to split the bill for lunch to agree on a choice of arbitrator.
The fans should act as the arbitration group. That's my point. We should march right into the NHL offices and demand a season.

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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
The fans can't do what they want. They can make a petition and send it around asking for arbitration or mediation but ultimately, the league and union will have to agree to the process and we have no real power to make them do so.

I guess we could say that if you really care about the game and the fans, then you'll allow an unbiased participant to make a deal that is fair to both sides.
Free will means that you can do whatever you want. Accountability means that you can accept the consequences of your actions. As long as you have both, yes, you CAN do anything you want to.

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10-05-2012, 12:04 AM
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arbitration is a non-starter for the owners. It would require them to open their books and show how much money they are actually losing, which either proves they are lying or significantly decreases franchise values if they were telling the truth.
What makes you think that? They could easily reveal those documents to the arbitrator without putting them out to the public. They've already dumped them on the NHLPA's doorstep...

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10-05-2012, 02:18 AM
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What makes you think that? They could easily reveal those documents to the arbitrator without putting them out to the public. They've already dumped them on the NHLPA's doorstep...
no, they have not dumped them on the nhlpa's doorstep.

the NHL or NHL owners have never disclosed their non-player costs, nor their non-HRR ancillary revenues.

and disclosing them to the arbitrator during arbitration would essentially mean disclosing them to the NHLPA, and potentially to the world depending on security and the structure of the arbitration.

It's a complete non-starter.

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10-05-2012, 07:19 AM
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no, they have not dumped them on the nhlpa's doorstep.

the NHL or NHL owners have never disclosed their non-player costs, nor their non-HRR ancillary revenues.

and disclosing them to the arbitrator during arbitration would essentially mean disclosing them to the NHLPA, and potentially to the world depending on security and the structure of the arbitration.

It's a complete non-starter.
So is losing regular season games. We're past the point of 'starter options'. The season should be happening.

Get us a season by any means necessary.

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10-05-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Third party will never happen because both the owners and players won't be getting what they ultimately want. So they'll never agree to bringing one in.
A 3.3B dollar industry shouldn't be able to choose what they want, when an agreement can't be made...there are alot of jobs on the line besides the precious 700.....

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10-05-2012, 08:36 AM
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So is losing regular season games. We're past the point of 'starter options'. The season should be happening.

Get us a season by any means necessary.
Ya right. The owners are more likely to lockout for several years before revealing the details for their numbers.

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10-05-2012, 09:02 AM
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So is losing regular season games. We're past the point of 'starter options'. The season should be happening.

Get us a season by any means necessary.
Yeah ok. You do understand that NHL is doing the same they did in 2004-05. They lost a whole season and when the puck dropped in October of 2005, arenas were jam packed and there were lines and lines of people still wanting to get in.

Fact is, as much as you want it, they can cancel the whole season now and send you a personalized letter saying : F YOU !...and still make a boatload of cash because like many others said, right now all we can do is not buy any NHL merchandise, those that attend games without being STH don't go to those games, but we have very few working ways to do something and have our voice heard.

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10-05-2012, 09:06 AM
  #21
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Even if you could force binding arbitration on the two sides, that would just set up more animosity and we'd be right back here in 6 years.
The problem is that it can't be forced. But as to your point about setting up more animosity, I can't see how. The longer they draw out this process, that itself will lead to more animosity. Some third party forcing a compromise, the only extra animosity coming from that is towards the 3rd party which is forcing the issue.

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10-05-2012, 09:13 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
i believe daly said he was open to mediation, not binding arbitration.

---

if this dispute was boiled down to, say, years before free agency and maximum length of contracts [with the parties in the same universe] i could see arbitration as a remote possibility. but, there is no way in hell the owners would allow such fundamental aspects of the business (i.e. definition of HRR, players' cut, revenue sharing) to ever, ever, ever be dictated by a third party.
You are correct, though Daly's comments seem to echo the fact that mediation only works if the parties involved almost treat it like an arbitration (i.e. recommendation is somewhat binding) otherwise it's pointless.

"A mediator can only be helpful if both sides are willing to embrace it and compromise," Daly said. "We certainly haven't ruled out that possibility."

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10-05-2012, 09:16 AM
  #23
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The NHL is set up in a way that outside authorities have no power over it unfortunately.

Also an arbitrator won't work as much as it should in theory, it'll be up to Fehr/Bettman in the end.

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10-05-2012, 09:50 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Cashville View Post
mediation only works if the parties involved almost treat it like an arbitration (i.e. recommendation is somewhat binding) otherwise it's pointless.
That's not what he meant. Mediators generally don't make recommendations. A mediation is just a negotiation with a neutral third party to hopefully help the process along. If the parties aren't willing to compromise, the presence of the mediator would make no difference. That's why it would be pointless.

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