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The Lockout (is over!!!!!)

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Old
09-30-2012, 11:56 PM
  #126
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If any Caps write on Bieber I'm disavowing this team.

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10-01-2012, 02:11 AM
  #127
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hey people,

im trying to win this competition for my nephew, was wondering if you could help!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

go there, and find the comment by Benny Dee - "whats the matter, bullet got your tongue?"

Like it!

sorry to post some random spam like post but he deserves a good break and id love to win it for him.

Cheers.

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10-01-2012, 08:43 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by cleaver View Post
If any Caps write on Bieber I'm disavowing this team.

Of course.

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Old
10-03-2012, 12:20 PM
  #129
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I had the Oct 5th preseason game against the Caps at the Verizon Center circled since I moved to the U St. area in July. Lockout is so brutal.

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10-03-2012, 07:34 PM
  #130
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...s_maple_leafs/

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I don't foresee him wanting to re-sign. If he doesn't get his career going with the Toronto Maple Leafs, he will not re-sign. This will be his last year one way or another if he does not solidify himself as a regular," Kypreos says. "I know there's teams interested, and there's been teams that have taken a run at Kadri for a trade. But Brain Burke wasn't prepared to let him go last year. And one of those teams was the Washington Capitals.

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10-04-2012, 11:22 PM
  #131
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Apparently games through the 24th canceled...

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10-05-2012, 12:11 AM
  #132
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I think that Fehr was like hey you caved after missing a season so steel yourselves into missing one and you'll "win" the next round.... Not seeing that will happen.

Been commented on in the media but I do agree that owners first proposal sans the salary roll back would have gone far in lessening the players angst.

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10-05-2012, 07:02 AM
  #133
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neither side is acting like they want to play or expect to be playing. there is no pressure from either side in the media about playing so far as i see.

this season is long gone. i think the season after is in jeopardy to be honest. i go back to direct tv and center ice.

last lockout they charged me as if the season was starting and continued to charge me. this time they are not charging me. they have been told, i'd guess, by the nhl not to expect hockey anytime soon.

anyone notice not a single center ice promo on tv? last time they ran full blast right up to the start of the season. this time? nothing. silence.

hockey is gone.

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:50 AM
  #134
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it's a shame. really.

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Old
10-05-2012, 08:18 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usiel View Post
I think that Fehr was like hey you caved after missing a season so steel yourselves into missing one and you'll "win" the next round.... Not seeing that will happen.

Been commented on in the media but I do agree that owners first proposal sans the salary roll back would have gone far in lessening the players angst.
Any player taking that advice is crazy. Losing this season will wipe out anything they could gain by getting a better deal from next season on. Best it does is hurt the owners too, but cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't make sense when you've got a relatively short time to earn what you can. Even if it sets them up better for the next round of CBA uncertainty, that's 6-7 (+?) years down the road and for many guys will be almost meaningless.

I mean, at least for the owners the lockout reduces their costs. I don't see how the players could possibly think that their position will be strengthened by a long lockout. Most of the owners won't get hit as hard by the lockout, will have more to gain by getting the deal they want (i.e. will be invested in the league longer than most individual players), and have more safety nets to fall back on.

Honestly, the only leverage the players have is that they're largely irreplaceable, but that doesn't do them any good unless they can come up with a viable alternative to the NHL to continue their careers in. The KHL is only an option for a select few...

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10-05-2012, 09:19 AM
  #136
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The players will eventually cave. They always do. Billionaires can wait out millionaires.

Sad part is, the average NHLer is the one taking the hit. Their careers average what, 5.5 years? For the rank and file player (non-star), missing a year is missing 20% of their career earnings. Fehr doesn't care about that, he cares about winning. Hopefully the players realize that sooner rather than later.

My Caps source tells me the league would take a 40 game regular season and playoffs to make a season happen this year. If it looks like that can't happen, I see it being completely cancelled, probably around Christmas/New Years time...

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10-05-2012, 09:26 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
neither side is acting like they want to play or expect to be playing. there is no pressure from either side in the media about playing so far as i see.

this season is long gone. i think the season after is in jeopardy to be honest. i go back to direct tv and center ice.

last lockout they charged me as if the season was starting and continued to charge me. this time they are not charging me. they have been told, i'd guess, by the nhl not to expect hockey anytime soon.

anyone notice not a single center ice promo on tv? last time they ran full blast right up to the start of the season. this time? nothing. silence.

hockey is gone.


Because it makes a ton of sense financially to spam advertising for a league that's on strike?


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 10-05-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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10-05-2012, 10:03 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post


Because it makes a ton of sense to spam advertising for a league that's on strike?
It's actually a lockout. His point wasn't the lack of advertising, but that the lack of advertising is a change from the beginning of the last "strike." It probably doesn't mean anything, but of course you find a way to misrepresent his post anyway.

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Old
10-05-2012, 11:29 AM
  #139
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I'm at the point where I think the player's are stupid.

First, for hiring Fehr. The man is a complete jackass piece of ****.

Second, unless these players are losing about 33% of their salary for the duration of the next CBA, they should just shut up and take it because guess what...they are about to lose 100% of their salary for this year. Well, maybe 20% or whatever the KHL will possibly, potentially pay them.

Lastly, hockey is incredibly disposable in this country. The more they hold out for their "X" percent, the more people they will lose...making them lose even more "Y" percent, when revenues go down.

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10-05-2012, 11:37 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usiel View Post
I think that Fehr was like hey you caved after missing a season so steel yourselves into missing one and you'll "win" the next round.... Not seeing that will happen.

Been commented on in the media but I do agree that owners first proposal sans the salary roll back would have gone far in lessening the players angst.
Agree with both points, players apt to be much more steely this time around. After 04-05, they have no excuse for thinking lock-out might be short.

Second point is spot on. The players are clearly willing to move down from 57% (and I believe would be willing to stair-step down to at least 50% over life of a new CBA - I mean Fehr had to have told them that based on where the NBA ended up that's the likely outcome), but they are totally pissed off about the roll back of existing contracts. They're hockey guys - the idea that clubs would look them in the eye and say here's how much I'll pay you for the next 3, 5, 7 years and then shortly thereafter say never mind we said whe'd pay that but we don't want to anymore -- well, that's the sort of weasel-ly crap that doesn't sit well with hockey guys.

Take the existing salary rollbacks off the table, this thing gets done quickly. But the players won't move on the split of HRR until that happens IMO

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Old
10-05-2012, 12:25 PM
  #141
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They already have enough familiarity with escrow that the concept of no rollbacks is a bit silly. Should they be trying to negotiate them down as low as possible? Of course. But drawing a line in the sand is silly when they haven't gotten paid their full contracts for most of the past 7 years (IINM they usually lose, what, 3% or so?). They can't say "you agreed to pay us this much" with a straight face when the contracts were signed with escrow already in play.

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10-05-2012, 12:37 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
They already have enough familiarity with escrow that the concept of no rollbacks is a bit silly. Should they be trying to negotiate them down as low as possible? Of course. But drawing a line in the sand is silly when they haven't gotten paid their full contracts for most of the past 7 years (IINM they usually lose, what, 3% or so?). They can't say "you agreed to pay us this much" with a straight face when the contracts were signed with escrow already in play.
IMO there's a difference between not getting your all money due to the operation of an escrow provision in a CBA in existence when you signed the agreement and not getting your money simply because the owners decided to use the next CBA to undo a bunch of contracts from the last one. I think if they would just unequivocally say we're going to honor existing contracts it would remove some of the poison and enable the going-forward issues to be more readily addressed.

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Old
10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
IMO there's a difference between not getting your all money due to the operation of an escrow provision in a CBA in existence when you signed the agreement and not getting your money simply because the owners decided to use the next CBA to undo a bunch of contracts from the last one. I think if they would just unequivocally say we're going to honor existing contracts it would remove some of the poison and enable the going-forward issues to be more readily addressed.
In effect all it would be doing is lowering the revenue projections for this season, bringing the cap/floor/midpoint down by whatever amount they agree to. If the league somehow outgrew the projections (obviously not going to happen now with a lockout) the players wouldn't have lost anything. I understand that they don't want to give up more than they already have, but it's still a silly hard line to take because they have never had the expectation of getting paid what they signed for in these past 7 years. Or, rather, they never signed for a set amount, but rather a set amount +/- some %.

Like I said, they obviously should/would be negotiating it down to minimize losses on current contracts. But making it a deal breaker from the get-go is stupid.

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10-05-2012, 01:30 PM
  #144
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Or, rather, they never signed for a set amount, but rather a set amount +/- some %.
I don't disagree with anything in your post and in a reasonable, non-toxic negotiation those points would drive the parties into the deal zone.

The problem here IMO is that the initial rollback proposal made by the owners went way outside the boundaries of the +/- some % expectations the players have had over the years, and brought back memories of the 04-05 "we'll take your 24% rollback proposal and tack it onto our salary cap" ruse that Bettman pulled back then.

You always fight the last war, and the lesson of the 04-05 war for the players was don't be the first one to make a reasonable offer. The owners sort of reinforced that lesson with their initial offer.

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10-05-2012, 02:19 PM
  #145
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I get that, but at some point they have to realize that getting overly insulted is only going to hurt them. If they start believing their own PR rhetoric then they're going to get hurt big time, moreso than the owners.

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10-05-2012, 03:05 PM
  #146
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Appropos of that, here's Karl Alzner with a pretty mature (not unsurprising for him) grasp of the situation:

“We know we’re going to have to take a hit,” Capitals defenseman Karl Alzner told CSNWashington.com “It’s just how big of a hit we need to take.”

“I think both sides know what their next proposal is, it’s just who wants to give it first,” Alzner said. “The owners know what their bottom percentage is and I’m sure Don [Fehr] knows what’s going to be a good one for us economically.

“But who’s going to be the first one to bite the bullet? No one wants to lose the negotiation. We understand we’re definitely not going to win it.”

http://www.csnwashington.com/hockey-...09&feedID=6357

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10-05-2012, 03:06 PM
  #147
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I actually agree with a lot of the players' demands (namely the increased revenue sharing and more stable cost certainty), but they don't seem to be negotiating in good faith at all. They haven't updated their proposal at all. They stalled the negotiations for months, then finally made their first offer on August 14th (just barely a month before the league was set to lock out the players). The league adjusted it's initial offer. The players responded by making the same offer they started with. The league adjusted it's offer again. The players responded by once again giving the same offer they started with.

It's a joke. This has clearly been Fehr and the unions strategy the whole time. For as much flak as the owners got for making a ludicrous opening proposal, I don't see why the players aren't catching **** for refusing to negotiate at all. Sure, they'll sit down at the table with the league, but they haven't bothered to attempt to reconcile their issues with the league. They're simply waiting until the league caves and offers them something sweet enough to accept.

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10-05-2012, 05:03 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post


Because it makes a ton of sense financially to spam advertising for a league that's on strike?
yea, you missed the point. its not about the advertising for the league thats not playing. its the fact that as a rule, the direct tv center ice commercials start running WELL before training camps open. Last lockout that was still the case.

the point being that previous to the last lockout sales of center ice was treated as if the league was going to reach a cba deal and play hockey. they charged their current customers as if the nhl was going to play 60 days out as usual. acting, again, as if the nhl was going to get a cba and play hockey.

this time its totally different. there's been zero effort to sell nhl hockey anywhere as if its an accepted fact that the nhl is not playing this season.

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10-05-2012, 07:44 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
yea, you missed the point. its not about the advertising for the league thats not playing. its the fact that as a rule, the direct tv center ice commercials start running WELL before training camps open. Last lockout that was still the case.

the point being that previous to the last lockout sales of center ice was treated as if the league was going to reach a cba deal and play hockey. they charged their current customers as if the nhl was going to play 60 days out as usual. acting, again, as if the nhl was going to get a cba and play hockey.

this time its totally different. there's been zero effort to sell nhl hockey anywhere as if its an accepted fact that the nhl is not playing this season.
No I didn't miss your point. You're making a wild assumption that the season is a forgone conclusion at this point, one sign being no center ice advertising or fees, because there's no season as of yet. Couldn't be more wrong as of today.

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10-06-2012, 02:56 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
Appropos of that, here's Karl Alzner with a pretty mature (not unsurprising for him) grasp of the situation:

“We know we’re going to have to take a hit,” Capitals defenseman Karl Alzner told CSNWashington.com “It’s just how big of a hit we need to take.”

“I think both sides know what their next proposal is, it’s just who wants to give it first,” Alzner said. “The owners know what their bottom percentage is and I’m sure Don [Fehr] knows what’s going to be a good one for us economically.

“But who’s going to be the first one to bite the bullet? No one wants to lose the negotiation. We understand we’re definitely not going to win it.”

http://www.csnwashington.com/hockey-...09&feedID=6357
Seems like Alzner is the only player with brains. Gained lots of respect with these comments.

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