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C Mikhail Grigorenko - Quebec Remparts, QMJHL (2012 draft) III

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Old
10-05-2012, 01:02 AM
  #176
PWJunior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor View Post
I heard he hates dogs. And old people.
If I'm not mistaken, that was a Tin Cup reference.

The correct Roy McAvoy quote:

'I'm going to qualify for the U.S. Open and kick your boyfriend's ass. Whatever you think of me, you should know he hates old people, children, and dogs.'

If not then,

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10-05-2012, 08:18 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
If I'm not mistaken, that was a Tin Cup reference.

The correct Roy McAvoy quote:

'I'm going to qualify for the U.S. Open and kick your boyfriend's ass. Whatever you think of me, you should know he hates old people, children, and dogs.'

If not then,
It was a Tin Cup reference. Thanks for the more accurate quote, love that movie.

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10-05-2012, 09:29 AM
  #178
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Grigorenko has only one person to blame: himself. It was a bad decision to go to Canada and now he has to pay for it (lack of hockey development and regression).

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10-05-2012, 09:32 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Grigorenko has only one person to blame: himself. It was a bad decision to go to Canada and now he has to pay for it (lack of hockey development and regression).
so much is wrong with this post

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10-05-2012, 10:09 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
so much is wrong with this post
wrong or not, he expressed how Russian fans and coaches would look at this situation, considering he is now stalling in his development.

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10-05-2012, 10:24 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
wrong or not, he expressed how Russian fans and coaches would look at this situation, considering he is now stalling in his development.
And what makes those people automatically assume he would have developed into some kind of monster in Russia? Do you guys ever stop to ask yourselves why do so many talented Russians leave for the CHL even though the so called experts back home advise otherwise?

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10-05-2012, 10:35 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
And what makes those people automatically assume he would have developed into some kind of monster in Russia? Do you guys ever stop to ask yourselves why do so many talented Russians leave for the CHL even though the so called experts back home advise otherwise?
Each case is special, I'm talking about Grigorenko. Would he develop better now in a professional league? Absolutely. Whether it's Russia or AHL, it's quiet obvious he's ready for more.

BTW, what's the ratio of players staying to those leaving, like 100:1? 200:1?

Not only do we stop to ask ourselves, a Jr league was created, and an AHL alernative was created. Players are given more and more lucrative options to stay home and develop without radically having to change their lives just to play hockey. It's not going unnoticed, if that's what you're implying.

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10-05-2012, 10:40 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Each case is special, I'm talking about Grigorenko. Would he develop better now in a professional league? Absolutely. Whether it's Russia or AHL, it's quiet obvious he's ready for more.

BTW, what's the ratio of players staying to those leaving, like 100:1? 200:1?

Not only do we stop to ask ourselves, a Jr league was created, and an AHL alernative was created. Players are given more and more lucrative options to stay home and develop without radically having to change their lives just to play hockey. It's not going unnoticed, if that's what you're implying.
And somehow you think he'll be playing in a professinal league in Russia? If he stayed he's either playing miniscule minutes on his KHL team while being scratched half the time, or playing for his MHL team, which I'm not sure how anyone coul argue is better for his development than the CHL.

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10-05-2012, 10:45 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
And somehow you think he'll be playing in a professinal league in Russia? If he stayed he's either playing miniscule minutes on his KHL team while being scratched half the time, or playing for his MHL team, which I'm not sure how anyone coul argue is better for his development than the CHL.
No, he would probably be playing a significant role in KHL by now, like Yakupov. At worst, he would be in VHL, also playing with adults. Like Gusev is.

CSKA is a special case, actually- they sucked at keeping their guys when they were tight for money and old management. So in that case, CHL is actually WAS a valid option, I'll agree. But things have changed and now it's far from perfect for Grigs.

My point still stands, he is stuck right now. I think when lockout ends he'll get a good shot at NHL.

And this whole, minimum minutes in KHL is ********. They are still with pros, they do their time and earn their respect. They develop in practices. Everyone started there, including Malkin and Kuznetsov and Tarasenko and Bure and Fedorov. It's not normal for NA, but it's normal for Russia.

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10-05-2012, 10:47 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
wrong or not, he expressed how Russian fans and coaches would look at this situation, considering he is now stalling in his development.
Is he stalling? How do you figure? His biggest weakness at this point is strength and conditioning. If you don't think the Sabres have people keeping tabs on his strength training in the Q, you're out of your mind.

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10-05-2012, 10:51 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
Is he stalling? How do you figure? His biggest weakness at this point is strength and conditioning. If you don't think the Sabres have people keeping tabs on his strength training in the Q, you're out of your mind.
I think he is stalling, yes. Absolutely, when he is putting up the points that he is. I don't think he's being challenged or motivated enough, no coach in the world can provide that. He needs a real challenge where he has to work hard just to be in the line up. Q can not provide that, not in a million years.

Strength and conditioning can be developed in the summer or any time in any country with any competent coaches, which Europe has too.

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10-05-2012, 10:57 AM
  #187
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What's worse is that now Kucherov decides to play in the QMJHL.
Everybody thinks Grigorenko is doing well now?.....wait till he teams up with Kucherov.

These guys should be in Russia being challenged against adults; not scoring 2 points/game vs kids.

The Gusev-Grigorenko-Kucherov line would have been great to develop in the VHL.

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10-05-2012, 11:01 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
What's worse is that now Kucherov decides to play in the QMJHL.
Everybody thinks Grigorenko is doing well now?.....wait till he teams up with Kucherov.

These guys should be in Russia being challenged against adults; not scoring 2 points/game vs kids.

The Gusev-Grigorenko-Kucherov line would have been great to develop in the VHL.
Ye, I blame that on CSKA and their previous carelessness towards their own prospects. "oh well, we'll make more".

No other Russian hockey school produces this many talents, and yet is willing to let them go for a bucket of pucks. I hope that changes in the future.

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10-05-2012, 11:04 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
No, he would probably be playing a significant role in KHL by now, like Yakupov. At worst, he would be in VHL, also playing with adults. Like Gusev is.

CSKA is a special case, actually- they sucked at keeping their guys when they were tight for money and old management. So in that case, CHL is actually WAS a valid option, I'll agree. But things have changed and now it's far from perfect for Grigs.

My point still stands, he is stuck right now. I think when lockout ends he'll get a good shot at NHL.

And this whole, minimum minutes in KHL is ********. They are still with pros, they do their time and earn their respect. They develop in practices. Everyone started there, including Malkin and Kuznetsov and Tarasenko and Bure and Fedorov. It's not normal for NA, but it's normal for Russia.
********. There is no proof he would be playing in the KHL now with significant minutes like Yakupov. The only reason Yakupov went back was because he was promised real minutes, Grigerenko obviously wasn't offered that.

You only have to look to Nikita Kucherov to prove that. Weak minutes in the KHL last year, most of the time spent in the MHL. Grigerenko would likely be in a similar situation to that.

Grigerenko might have made Buffalo this year but that's no reason to say he should have stayed in Russia. And the minutes is a huge issue, there's a reason teams don't keep players over here to play 60% of the games and only get 4-7 minutes a game. That is horrible for development. Just because a few extremely talented players did it doesn't mean it works for everyone.

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10-05-2012, 11:04 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
And what makes those people automatically assume he would have developed into some kind of monster in Russia? Do you guys ever stop to ask yourselves why do so many talented Russians leave for the CHL even though the so called experts back home advise otherwise?
1. Higher level of competition in the KHL vs CHL.
2. Russian prospects come to NA primarily to make it clear to scouts/teams that they want to make the NHL, not because the CHL is necessarily a superior league to develop in.

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10-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
What's worse is that now Kucherov decides to play in the QMJHL.
Everybody thinks Grigorenko is doing well now?.....wait till he teams up with Kucherov.

These guys should be in Russia being challenged against adults; not scoring 2 points/game vs kids.

The Gusev-Grigorenko-Kucherov line would have been great to develop in the VHL.
So do tell, why do they keep leaving? Are you saying they are too stupid to know what's good for them or could it just be that things aren't as rosey back in Russia as some of you paint it out?

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10-05-2012, 11:10 AM
  #192
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How come when a guy like Huberdeau plays in the Q and tears it up it's great for his development and he's NHL ready, but when Grigorenko does it, it's the opposite??

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10-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
1. Higher level of competition in the KHL vs CHL.
2. Russian prospects come to NA primarily to make it clear to scouts/teams that they want to make the NHL, not because the CHL is necessarily a superior league to develop in.
That doesn't mean automatically that he would have developed into a far better player than he has now. There have been elite Russian prospects who stayed home in Russia and didn't come to the CHL and now are nothing more than fringe players back home.

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10-05-2012, 11:19 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
So do tell, why do they keep leaving? Are you saying they are too stupid to know what's good for them or could it just be that things aren't as rosey back in Russia as some of you paint it out?

Most of it is the Russian factor.

If a player wants to play in NHL, its almost becoming a prerequisite that a player must 'prove his commitment' by playing in North america ASAP.
Look at Anton Slepyshev.. The kid is a 1st round talent but still has 2 years on his KHL contract, he wasn't even drafted.

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10-05-2012, 11:26 AM
  #195
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How come when a guy like Huberdeau plays in the Q and tears it up it's great for his development and he's NHL ready, but when Grigorenko does it, it's the opposite??
Because Grigorenko isn't a good Canadian boy?
It's funny though because in the same number of games, Grigorenko has 4 more points than Huberdeau and is a year younger. But obviously Huberdeau is above QMJHL level competition and will be a star, but Grigorenko isn't and will totally bust.

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10-05-2012, 11:29 AM
  #196
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He's stalling his development? I read so many comments at and around the draft that said he needs to work on his 2-way game and would benefit from another year in the Q. How has this changed so quickly?

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10-05-2012, 11:29 AM
  #197
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That doesn't mean automatically that he would have developed into a far better player than he has now. There have been elite Russian prospects who stayed home in Russia and didn't come to the CHL and now are nothing more than fringe players back home.
There is nothing wrong with CHL as a jr league. It's a good league.

The biggest problem, is that if a player outgrows it- he can't just easily move to the next level because of all the rules that have to do with age, instead of skill.

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10-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #198
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[QUOTE=Kishire;54783659]How come when a guy like Huberdeau plays in the Q and tears it up it's great for his development and he's NHL ready, but when Grigorenko does it, it's the opposite?? [/QUOT

There is no reason. To say that a player is dominating his competition is bad for him is as ass-backwards an argument as they come. You're supposed to worry if he's not producing.

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10-05-2012, 11:32 AM
  #199
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Not to mention how the 04-05 lockout completely ruined the development of the 03 draft class by forcing them to play their 19yo seasons against kids in the CHL.

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10-05-2012, 11:34 AM
  #200
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He's stalling his development? I read so many comments at and around the draft that said he needs to work on his 2-way game and would benefit from another year in the Q. How has this changed so quickly?
It's just the way you look at it. Us, Russian fans see it as- Grigs can be more and do more than dominate the Q.

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