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Nazem Kadri reports to camp in 'Unacceptable' shape

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10-04-2012, 10:58 AM
  #426
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I already busted Philly and New Jersey. Their successful 1st round picks are typically in the NHL full at least by their 3rd year.
If that's what you consider "busted".....

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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Nashville played Suter, Radulov and C.Wilson in their first full seasons in their 3rd year.
So your point is by the same stage they tended to have 20 or less more NHL games played than Kadri?

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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
San Jose played Vlasic full time in his 2nd year (as a 19yo) Michalek full time in his 3rd year. But only gave gave Couture and Setoguchi half seasons in the NHL in their 3rd years before making it full time in their 4th.
To summarize, as stated, Kadri is falling right within the norm for the range he is selected in.

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What I think is based on what other teams do. The majority of other teams have their successful 1st rounders in the NHL by now.
Define "successful".

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Schenn played 7 games in the minors. Is two weeks out of six months significant?
He played 54 games in the NHL and looks to have spent another 20 on the NHL IR.

Saying that he made the NHL team is bragging him up?
Like the rest, he's played a handful more NHL games than Kadri at the same stage and had lower production (despite being picked higher). Holding him up as an example against someone who has posted nearly identical everything is just humourous.

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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
It's beneficial for teams to have NHL ready talent to fill roster spots while their on their ELC's.
It seems to be expected, based on how the majority of teams who promote their successful 1st rounders, that most 1st round picks are expected to make the NHL by their 3rd year post draft.
Sure it's "beneficial". What it is not is normal.

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10-04-2012, 02:18 PM
  #427
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At no point did I equate higher body fat percentage to not being "in shape". Regardless of descent, an athletic person is able to achieve low body fat percentage through proper nutrition(and hard work). Just because those Turkish people you know aren't defined, doesn't mean that they couldn't be.
I was responding specifically to:
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...isn't anything in his "genes" preventing from having a low body fat percentage. It's his diet.
You are incorrect in claiming that there is no genetic basis for different body fat percentages and fat distribution between races (even in the statistical subset that is the athletic elite of said races). This is not anecdotal evidence like the other posted you group-quoted me with. Simple scientific fact.

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10-04-2012, 07:10 PM
  #428
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I can't imagine this young man, with what he has already been through with the Leafs would not be in good shape

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10-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #429
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He looked very impressive in today's scrimmage. Just so creative and talented.

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10-04-2012, 10:15 PM
  #430
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He looked very impressive in today's scrimmage. Just so creative and talented.


Hes got a new move where he just rolls down the ice taking out all the skinny players on the way.

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10-05-2012, 11:43 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
If that's what you consider "busted".....



So your point is by the same stage they tended to have 20 or less more NHL games played than Kadri?



To summarize, as stated, Kadri is falling right within the norm for the range he is selected in.



Define "successful".



Like the rest, he's played a handful more NHL games than Kadri at the same stage and had lower production (despite being picked higher). Holding him up as an example against someone who has posted nearly identical everything is just humourous.



Sure it's "beneficial". What it is not is normal.
By having a late birthday, Kadri is actually a year ahead as far as development. So his ELC started earlier and hence you would expect him to make the NHL sooner. In 10-11 Kadri was burning an ELC either way so he would obviously be in a more likely position to get a call up than Schenn who still had a year of Junior eligibility and hence his team would be more likely to preserve a year of his ELC. The difference is Kadri has played 92 regular season AHL games whereas Schenn has played 14 (with 7 coming after his last season of Juniors ended). Schenn made the Flyers, a strong playoff team last year and carved out a solid role for himself in the first year of his ELC. Kadri on his first two years has failed to secure a role for himself on the Leafs despite prolonged opportunities to prove himself. You call it "bringing him in slowly" but clearly they called him up to see what he had and he wasn't able to maintain a spot for himself. Just looking at points doesn't tell the full story but even then I'll take Schenn's production in the NHL playoffs at about the same rate as Kadri's AHL Playoff production any day of the week.

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10-05-2012, 01:33 PM
  #432
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He looked very impressive in today's scrimmage. Just so creative and talented.
He sounds like Sam Gagner, except less driven

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10-05-2012, 03:53 PM
  #433
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He sounds like Sam Gagner, except less driven
He's more talented than Gagner. When he was up with the Leafs, he would be our second most offensively talented player behind Kessel of course. He was just never given an opportunity in our top six last year. There was just no room. So when he was up he played on the third line and couldn't produce that much. Actually, I think he had a brief stint at one point playing with Connolly and MacArthur who are decent and he had 4 goals in 3 or 4 games. The coach split them up for whatever reason though.

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10-05-2012, 04:51 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
If that's what you consider "busted".....
Almost all of the top prospects for those 4 teams were in the NHL at the beginning of their 3rd year post draft, before their ELC's stopped sliding.

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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Sure it's "beneficial". What it is not is normal.
It's perfectly normal for top prospects. Depth prospects and prospects with lower ceilings tend to take longer.

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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
So your point is by the same stage they tended to have 20 or less more NHL games played than Kadri?
No, what I'm saying is that they made the NHL permanently and Kadri didn't. Because playing 70+ games in 1 season usually means that you've made the league. Whereas, playing 20-25 games over multiple seasons doesn't usually indicate any sort of permanence.

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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
To summarize, as stated, Kadri is falling right within the norm for the range he is selected in.
Perhaps for the disappoints, but successful top-10 1st rounders are in the NHL by their 3rd year post draft and in many cases; before then.

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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Define "successful".

A prospects who becomes an impact player. This is exactly the reason that I was trying not to talk about players like Brayden Schenn... we should be looking at how actual impact players developed. Working with projections of what Schenn, Kadri or Hodgson are supposed to become is idiotic when they are legit impact players in their mid-20's whose development paths we can measure towards a known outcome.


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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Like the rest, he's played a handful more NHL games than Kadri at the same stage and had lower production (despite being picked higher). Holding him up as an example against someone who has posted nearly identical everything is just humourous.
Look, I really don't see that value in bringing up other unproven players.

However, there are significant differences between these two players:
- Schenn is almost a full year (10.5 months) younger than Kadri.
- He has a much better all-round game.
- He destroyed Kadri's production level in the CHL and AHL.
- He finished the NHL season with 6 points in 7 games and then 9 points in 11 playoff games.
- The only move Philly made this summer was to clear a top-6 spot (by trading JVR), while the only move Toronto made to fill one.

We can reasonably assume that Schenn would be in the NHL, wouldn't get benched for irresponsible play and looks primed for an offensive breakout. In contrast, there's little indication as to whether Kadri would have made the Leafs this year or not.

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10-05-2012, 05:20 PM
  #435
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I don't see Kadri as Sam Gagner but one guy I would compare him to is Steve Sullivan maybe because he has amazing hands and has developed great vision. He's probably not gonna play the point but I think he can be a real PP specialist. I'm not really gonna pick on his 2-way game because it's not notably worst than a lot of other prospects including ones in Toronto's system (or 1st team players).

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10-06-2012, 11:55 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
He's more talented than Gagner. When he was up with the Leafs, he would be our second most offensively talented player behind Kessel of course. He was just never given an opportunity in our top six last year. There was just no room. So when he was up he played on the third line and couldn't produce that much. Actually, I think he had a brief stint at one point playing with Connolly and MacArthur who are decent and he had 4 goals in 3 or 4 games. The coach split them up for whatever reason though.
So now Toronto has this loaded top 6 that is impossible to penetrate? I thought Leaf fans were always bemoaning the support cast that Kessel has. I don't buy this. It is up to Kadri to play his way onto the team and onto the top 6.

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10-06-2012, 12:01 PM
  #437
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So now Toronto has this loaded top 6 that is impossible to penetrate? I thought Leaf fans were always bemoaning the support cast that Kessel has. I don't buy this. It is up to Kadri to play his way onto the team and onto the top 6.
if leafs had good top 6 would they finish so low in the standings. If he can not make Toronto not sure what team he could make

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10-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #438
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if leafs had good top 6 would they finish so low in the standings. If he can not make Toronto not sure what team he could make
Yeah. The leafs top six is their problem...

The leafs have a great top six (aside from the number 1C). Sucks for Kadri because the Leafs are molding him into a winger.

He would excel anywhere else.

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10-06-2012, 02:23 PM
  #439
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Yeah. The leafs top six is their problem...

The leafs have a great top six (aside from the number 1C). Sucks for Kadri because the Leafs are molding him into a winger.

He would excel anywhere else.
I dont really believe leafs have such a great top six that kadri couldnt crack it. He has the opportunity to be a winger and a center so thats more opportunity.

The only players I can see as not being able to bump out are Kessel (way to good) and grabovski (good two way center)

The first line center spot was gift wrapped and put infront of his house from him. All he had to do was play better then Tyler Bozak. Bozak is a good 3rd line center but has no business on the first line.

Lupul is an interesting case. He put up alot of points this year, but most likely a product of Kessel. He hasnt been all that good the past 5 years of his career so was this a year in which he magically improved a bunch? or did Kessel inflate his stats. Kadri should be able to beat him out.

Kulemin gots 7 goals this year. Sure his defensive game is good. But if Kadri is this offensive dynamo he should be able to push out a 7 goal man.

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10-06-2012, 02:56 PM
  #440
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I dont really believe leafs have such a great top six that kadri couldnt crack it. He has the opportunity to be a winger and a center so thats more opportunity.

The only players I can see as not being able to bump out are Kessel (way to good) and grabovski (good two way center)

The first line center spot was gift wrapped and put infront of his house from him. All he had to do was play better then Tyler Bozak. Bozak is a good 3rd line center but has no business on the first line.

Lupul is an interesting case. He put up alot of points this year, but most likely a product of Kessel. He hasnt been all that good the past 5 years of his career so was this a year in which he magically improved a bunch? or did Kessel inflate his stats. Kadri should be able to beat him out.

Kulemin gots 7 goals this year. Sure his defensive game is good. But if Kadri is this offensive dynamo he should be able to push out a 7 goal man.
Kadri had 5 goals in a quarter of the games was on pace for 20, offensive productions wasnt the reason he was not in the NHL. Like ive said 10000x Kadri wasnt in the NHL because he was the only top 9 player that was waiver exempted (along with Frattin) and wasnt good enough to warrant dumping a contract for.

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11-17-2012, 03:44 PM
  #441
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Now with 9 points in his last 4 games Kadri is 2 points behind RNH and 4 behind Eberle in 1 less game. Where are all the bashers now?

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11-17-2012, 03:45 PM
  #442
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His hands are too fat to lift the puck off the ice to score goals that's why he can only get assists

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11-17-2012, 03:45 PM
  #443
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Now with 9 points in his last 4 games Kadri is 2 points behind RNH and 4 behind Eberle in 1 less game. Where are all the bashers now?
Probably still waiting for him to make an impact in the NHL. Like it or not, that's what it will come down to.

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11-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #444
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Probably still waiting for him to make an impact in the NHL. Like it or not, that's what it will come down to.
Really? The kid gets bashed because hes not in the NHL during the lockout now Its hard to please everyone isnt it? The kid has the ability to carry a team, is it a coincidence that hes hot and the team is winning and hes terrible when the teams losing?


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11-17-2012, 03:54 PM
  #445
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His hands are too fat to lift the puck off the ice to score goals that's why he can only get assists

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11-17-2012, 04:00 PM
  #446
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Too fat

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11-17-2012, 04:03 PM
  #447
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Now with 9 points in his last 4 games Kadri is 2 points behind RNH and 4 behind Eberle in 1 less game. Where are all the bashers now?
I guess Brandon Pirri (same draft as Kadri with same amount of time in AHL) is as good as RNH now. 13 points in 14 games with Rockford Ice Hogs. Sweet.

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11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #448
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I guess Brandon Pirri (same draft as Kadri with same amount of time in AHL) is as good as RNH now. 13 points in 14 games with Rockford Ice Hogs. Sweet.
He never said Kadri was as good as them. Your shtick is getting really old man, even Vsevolod Bobrov has been quiet lately.

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11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #449
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Now with 9 points in his last 4 games Kadri is 2 points behind RNH and 4 behind Eberle in 1 less game. Where are all the bashers now?
Noone doubted Kadri could do well in the AHL..

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11-17-2012, 04:09 PM
  #450
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Really? The kid gets bashed because hes not in the NHL during the lockout now Its hard to please everyone isnt it? The kid has the ability to carry a team, is it a coincidence that hes hot and the team is winning and hes terrible when the teams losing?
Point is, we all know he can score in the AHL. And him scoring in the AHL has not correlated to him being an NHL player. Therefore, him having a mini-hot streak in the AHL means nothing. I think he'll be a good player but scoring 9 points in 4 games does nothing to convince me of that.

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