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Rink sizes in KHL

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10-05-2012, 07:53 AM
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BalticWarrior
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Rink sizes in KHL

Would KHL benefit if it made rink sizes smaller? do you think it would make the game more enjoyable?

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10-05-2012, 08:04 AM
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I think it is good idea, especially "finnish size rink", but it is not so easy. You would have to change all rinks, since kids to juniors, not only for KHL teams.

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10-05-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Would KHL benefit if it made rink sizes smaller? do you think it would make the game more enjoyable?
less enjoyable

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10-05-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Would KHL benefit if it made rink sizes smaller? do you think it would make the game more enjoyable?
KHL regulations allow teams to have NHL sized rink (60x26m).I think Slovan Bratislava rink and O2 arena in Prague are NHL sized.So choice is up to teams, which size they prefer.

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10-05-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
less enjoyable
If they went with the sizes evident in some Finnish arenas, the difference would most definitely NOT be for the worse.

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10-05-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Would KHL benefit if it made rink sizes smaller? do you think it would make the game more enjoyable?
In my opinion, NO. Small rink games are just pinball on ice. There is no room to create combinational plays, and it is hard to control the puck for more than 3 or 4 seconds. As players continue to get bigger, it makes no sense at all to make rinks smaller. I love the wide open offensive flow found on European full-size rinks.

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10-05-2012, 01:41 PM
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100% against it. Let's not ruin what makes Russian hockey great. The last thing we want is the type of deteriorating on ice product the NHL has.

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10-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I think it is good idea, especially "finnish size rink", but it is not so easy. You would have to change all rinks, since kids to juniors, not only for KHL teams.
Vorky you are very correct. Difficult transition to make but the move to Finnish ice is the optimal move. In fact, the KHL player poll last year favoured this move. Hence, there are minimal reasons why the change shouldn't happen. Will speed the game up slightly, wont wreck the game like these traditionalists think. Its still bigger than the NHL rinks..

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10-05-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
If they went with the sizes evident in some Finnish arenas, the difference would most definitely NOT be for the worse.
It would. Smaller rink dictates less skilled players have the advantage of drowning skilled players with hacking and whacking forcing the game into a series of broken plays often seen in the NHL. Board battles, blocked shots and dump ins are a part of hockey, but it gets boring quickly if they become the essence of the game.

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10-02-2013, 02:45 PM
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Is it time that KHL starts to consider a finnish size rink?
As we can see in the case of Medvescak most russian teams are unable to adapt to small size ice rink and more physical game.

KHL goalies and defence is not even worth mentioning on the small size ice rink where they seem completly lost and disoriented and can't adapt to more ruthless style of physical game.

With "finnish size rink" you can still have russian pass game but it can greatly boost quality of defence and goalies.

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10-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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Finland also have big rinks like in Turku where the ice is a size of an airport..

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10-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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What about "czech" rink sizes. It means every rink has differnet size to gain home advantage?

I also disagree. On large rink i dont like corners battles. Maybe just change radius of rink? Im not sure, could it work?

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10-02-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BalticWarrior View Post
Would KHL benefit if it made rink sizes smaller? do you think it would make the game more enjoyable?
No and no. The games in Zagreb aren't more entertaining or enjoyable from a fan standpoint. Of course it serves the purpose of Medvescak's canadians to use their knowledge of the game on small rinks and I think a big part of Medvescaks success is home ice advantage, but I don't want the league become a european version of the NHL. The whole point is we have a different kind of game on bigger rinks in the KHL.

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10-02-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
Is it time that KHL starts to consider a finnish size rink?
As we can see in the case of Medvescak most russian teams are unable to adapt to small size ice rink and more physical game.

KHL goalies and defence is not even worth mentioning on the small size ice rink where they seem completly lost and disoriented and can't adapt to more ruthless style of physical game.

With "finnish size rink" you can still have russian pass game but it can greatly boost quality of defence and goalies.
You are missing the point completely. The same Medvescak is pretty useless on big ice. shouldn't we force them to adapt to bigger rinks? why exactly should russian teams adpat ot Zagreb rink? There are teams assembled for a certain kind of play, they are used to certain kind of play. Then one time in a season they have to play in Zagreb. Little wonder they can't adjust. But that doesn't mean they are in any way bad or useless teams and players. And let them play a couple of games on the small rink and they will adapt. But for what? Some unenterteining "physical" game? I've seen a bunch of games in Zagreb by now. Not impressed as a neutral fan looking for just some entertaining hockey.

Please check the NHL boards for ppl calling for a bigger rink in the NHL. The whole idea of smaller rinks in the KHL is ill advised and disregards the recent developments in hockey.

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10-02-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
You are missing the point completely. The same Medvescak is pretty useless on big ice. shouldn't we force them to adapt to bigger rinks? why exactly should russian teams adpat ot Zagreb rink? There are teams assembled for a certain kind of play, they are used to certain kind of play. Then one time in a season they have to play in Zagreb. Little wonder they can't adjust. But that doesn't mean they are in any way bad or useless teams and players. And let them play a couple of games on the small rink and they will adapt. But for what? Some unenterteining "physical" game? I've seen a bunch of games in Zagreb by now. Not impressed as a neutral fan looking for just some entertaining hockey.
Please check the NHL boards for ppl calling for a bigger rink in the NHL. The whole idea of smaller rinks in the KHL is ill advised and disregards the recent developments in hockey.
I've watched all Medvescak's games this season so far and they were only thrashed on big ice versus Severstal.
They took a point from Lokomotiv and Atlant( don't know if Atlant has hybrid ice rink) and were equal in those games if not better.

I'm not asking for NHL size rink but some "middle" way where we could have russian style passes and finesse with little more physical game where attackers are not just outscating and doing ballet by opponents defence and sleeping by the board.

If KHL adopts finnish size rink we should see boost in defence and goaltending thus making offence better 'cause they should find another ways to outsmart opponents defence.

Question should be why KHL's offence can not break AHL's defence on small ice and why is Medvescak winning games heavily outshooted.

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10-02-2013, 05:10 PM
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Lets face it - NHL too small, KHL too big... Needs to be somewhere in between for optimal game speed.

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10-02-2013, 05:30 PM
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Soviet hockey was great on the big ice. And it was great on the small ice. We need better players not smaller rinks.

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10-04-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Soviet hockey was great on the big ice. And it was great on the small ice. We need better players not smaller rinks.


The rink is not the problem. I've enjoyed certain games from St. Pete or Kazan (green derby) and also from Zagreb.
The problem is still the fact that there need to be more talented players and more stress on physicality. Hopefully Moscow Dynamo and teams like the new Torpedo, AK Bars, Medveščak will make others adapt to more physical hockey on big ice too.

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10-04-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
You are missing the point completely. The same Medvescak is pretty useless on big ice. shouldn't we force them to adapt to bigger rinks? why exactly should russian teams adpat ot Zagreb rink? There are teams assembled for a certain kind of play, they are used to certain kind of play. Then one time in a season they have to play in Zagreb. Little wonder they can't adjust. But that doesn't mean they are in any way bad or useless teams and players. And let them play a couple of games on the small rink and they will adapt. But for what? Some unenterteining "physical" game? I've seen a bunch of games in Zagreb by now. Not impressed as a neutral fan looking for just some entertaining hockey.

Please check the NHL boards for ppl calling for a bigger rink in the NHL. The whole idea of smaller rinks in the KHL is ill advised and disregards the recent developments in hockey.
The Sports Illustrated (US sports magazine) NHL Preview issue focused its main article on the problems resulting from goal scoring disappearing in the NHL. NHL teams are scoring so few goals that the fans are starting to get bored with watching the puck bouncing around a small rink. Adjustments that the NHL has tried to make to produce more goal scoring, such as eliminating the Center Red Line, just hasn't worked. Because players in the NHL are so big and the rinks are so small, goals are getting to be more and more scarce. Be careful about wishing for smaller ice.

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10-04-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
The Sports Illustrated (US sports magazine) NHL Preview issue focused its main article on the problems resulting from goal scoring disappearing in the NHL. NHL teams are scoring so few goals that the fans are starting to get bored with watching the puck bouncing around a small rink. Adjustments that the NHL has tried to make to produce more goal scoring, such as eliminating the Center Red Line, just hasn't worked. Because players in the NHL are so big and the rinks are so small, goals are getting to be more and more scarce. Be careful about wishing for smaller ice.
Goal scoring is down in Europe as well. Defensive strategies are always easier to come up with than offensive, no matter what size the rink is. It's just as easy to collapse and play zone defense in a big rink than in a small rink.

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10-04-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
The Sports Illustrated (US sports magazine) NHL Preview issue focused its main article on the problems resulting from goal scoring disappearing in the NHL. NHL teams are scoring so few goals that the fans are starting to get bored with watching the puck bouncing around a small rink. Adjustments that the NHL has tried to make to produce more goal scoring, such as eliminating the Center Red Line, just hasn't worked. Because players in the NHL are so big and the rinks are so small, goals are getting to be more and more scarce. Be careful about wishing for smaller ice.


Changes begin after 2005-06, and it's been hovering that mark since. The NHL surface is a more entertaining product whichever league is playing on it, the pace of the game is electrifying and much more rapid if played between two proper teams. On big ice, it's very easy to slow your opponents down especially on the breakout while at the same time also almost eliminating what makes Hockey unique, it's physical play. You have more room and more time, but that time buys you nothing too much because your still further away from the net. The benefits of the surface is with the width you have more movement east and west creating more plays like you said and using passing options which aren't as recognizable on the smaller surface. There's an elegance to Hockey on the bigger surface, you have to work in a different way to produce which I think is very enjoyable in it's self. It's more skating but the game is slower which is one of the issues since Hockey should never become like Football. The Finnish surface is an amusing option which would be interesting to see in the KHL. But I mean as witnessed during the 2010 Olympics and we can compare after Sochi 2014, if proper teams are playing such as international teams, the product and speed and entertainment value of the game are best suited for the 200' by 85' especially nowadays where all the top players in the World from no matter which country, have the ability and talent and strength to adapt to the small rink style, whereas back then it wasn't the case.

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10-06-2013, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Soviet hockey was great on the big ice. And it was great on the small ice. We need better players not smaller rinks.
False logic. They were better in an era where players were poorly trained, slower. Now with advancements in research which has been applied to sport training has increased the speed and physicality of the game on the smaller rink. Gary Roberts one of the world renown hockey trainers says players weren't even close to being properly trained in the NHL until the late 90s and even now still increasing speed, strength of players. The small ice has been outgrown by the evolution of NHL athletes years ago... NHL doesn't handle change well, too much of old boys club.

Go back and watch those Soviet-NHL exhibition games, some of those Canadian defensemen could barely skate. They wouldn't have the same effect today. Conclusion: NHL size ice = too small even for Soviet era players.

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10-06-2013, 06:00 AM
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False logic. They were better in an era where players were poorly trained, slower. Now with advancements in research which has been applied to sport training has increased the speed and physicality of the game on the smaller rink. Gary Roberts one of the world renown hockey trainers says players weren't even close to being properly trained in the NHL until the late 90s and even now still increasing speed, strength of players. The small ice has been outgrown by the evolution of NHL athletes years ago... NHL doesn't handle change well, too much of old boys club.

Go back and watch those Soviet-NHL exhibition games, some of those Canadian defensemen could barely skate. They wouldn't have the same effect today. Conclusion: NHL size ice = too small even for Soviet era players.
Well, I prefer to watch Canada Cup 87. And've never seen bad scaters amongst Canadians there. And I can't say the pace was slow as well. Those guys just knew the puck was faster than any player - you just gotta think fast as well.

So that's the problem - when the best are playing, any rinks are ok. And we still haven't seen all the best players on the big ice. I mean if we had NHL on big rinks it could be a real joy to watch, who knows. But on the small ice it's just run&gun festivity. It's easier to get big guys and teach them to scate fast and hit everything than to teach them to actually play hockey. That's the main problem of the small ice.

And as to KHL, its main problem is just there's no enough good players there. Just imagine if KHL was like Soviet The Highest League - only 12 teams. I bet it would look different.

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10-06-2013, 06:28 AM
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Changes begin after 2005-06, and it's been hovering that mark since. The NHL surface is a more entertaining product whichever league is playing on it, the pace of the game is electrifying and much more rapid if played between two proper teams. On big ice, it's very easy to slow your opponents down especially on the breakout while at the same time also almost eliminating what makes Hockey unique, it's physical play. You have more room and more time, but that time buys you nothing too much because your still further away from the net. The benefits of the surface is with the width you have more movement east and west creating more plays like you said and using passing options which aren't as recognizable on the smaller surface. There's an elegance to Hockey on the bigger surface, you have to work in a different way to produce which I think is very enjoyable in it's self. It's more skating but the game is slower which is one of the issues since Hockey should never become like Football. The Finnish surface is an amusing option which would be interesting to see in the KHL. But I mean as witnessed during the 2010 Olympics and we can compare after Sochi 2014, if proper teams are playing such as international teams, the product and speed and entertainment value of the game are best suited for the 200' by 85' especially nowadays where all the top players in the World from no matter which country, have the ability and talent and strength to adapt to the small rink style, whereas back then it wasn't the case.
That's the problem. I used to watch Soviet hockey on the big ice. And modern NHL hockey for me is nothing electrifying, but boring shoot&hit festivity. It's fast but it's not the speed I'd like to watch. Nowdays people got exited every time they see those tic-tac-toe goals. And I understand them - such goals are so rare & beauty. But in Soviet hockey they were rutine.

So back to the days of the past, the top players couldn't adapt? Really? I mean even in 1972 the Soviet team beat Canadians on the small ice and lost on the big one. And it was like the first time they both played on the ice they weren't used to.


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10-06-2013, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Well, I prefer to watch Canada Cup 87. And've never seen bad scaters amongst Canadians there. And I can't say the pace was slow as well. Those guys just knew the puck was faster than any player - you just gotta think fast as well.
I disagree. It is commonly disclosed by players, coaches etc.. that the pace is incredibly faster than in the 80s, 90's. I mean, Lemieux was a chain smoker at the time of that series Even the equipment, namely the skates, sticks were heavier, less efficient to the body. Players in that series look notably less mobile than hockey players today.. Everyone is so much faster, stronger than the guys back then. Yes passing game of soviets was interesting and would still be effective, but to a lesser extent today.

Quote:
So that's the problem - when the best are playing, any rinks are ok. And we still haven't seen all the best players on the big ice. I mean if we had NHL on big rinks it could be a real joy to watch, who knows. But on the small ice it's just run&gun festivity. It's easier to get big guys and teach them to scate fast and hit everything than to teach them to actually play hockey. That's the main problem of the small ice.

And as to KHL, its main problem is just there's no enough good players there. Just imagine if KHL was like Soviet The Highest League - only 12 teams. I bet it would look different.
This is only somewhat true IMO. I personally played with a handful of NHL 4th line guys growing up and recently for recreation in summer. I can assure you that if these guys were on the big ice they would not last long. Puck skills are minimal, which validates my point that NHL has grown to breading effective players to be physical, fast, and can shoot -nothing more, just grind fest. These kind of guys can be used to offset a skilled line on the small rink... They make good NHLers but pisspoor KHLers. So not everyone is good on any ice. Guys like Backstrom, yea he is good on any ice, put him on the moon and he will be good, but only a handful of these kinds of guys in the world.
Which is one advantage KHL has - that is bigger ice breeds better talent, not grinders. BTW NHL has pressure to increase ice from lobbying groups (former players like Lindros etc..) but fears angering fans, losing money etc.. KHL does not have this problem, which is advantage to them, they can do with what they like.

If NHL guys were on bigger ice, people would not like to what they see: 3rd, 4th line guys bobbling puck, missing passes, slower pace. Yes KHL guys skill level is slightly below, but that is not to blame for the overall product. Generally there guys on the lower units have better skills, so the game would actually look nicer on a slightly condensed ice.

IMO selecting ice surface is like selecting temperature for your home - you have to find the optimal balance for best effect. Right now KHL ice too hot, NHL ice too cold. Need to find ice somewhere in middle (warm).. Im sure KHL will amend rinks in not so distant future.

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