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Old
10-05-2012, 12:21 AM
  #351
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by SCARFACE909 View Post
When you think about it there's two issues that are stopping this from being done.


The first issue is the owner's want a cut back the first year, the players aren't willing to do that, they are willing to cut back over the next few years, but the owners want a cut back right now.

Second issue is both sides are afraid to show weakness by providing an offer. Remember in 04 when the NHLPA offered the 24% roll back like the NHL wanted? No deal was made because the NHL took their deal and essentially said "thank you, we'll take this and put it in our filing cabinet, what else can you give us?" it sucks but that's the reality, they're afraid to offer something significant, now.

I personally don't see how this lockout can be longer than the last one, in 04-05 there were a lot of things that needed to be changed, the game of hockey was hurting and needed changes to make it better, this time it's all about which slice of the pie everyone gets and when, I still think the season will start by Thanksgiving, but we'll see.
No they aren't. The only proposal the NHLPA has put forward calls for breaking the linkage between revenue and the salary cap. They want fixed raises over the next 3 or 4 seasons and claim that IF revenue continues to grow over the pace that is has over the last 7 years, that their share will be reduced to something approaching 50%.

There is no guarantee that revenue will continue to increase at that rate. The NHLPA's proposal does nothing to control the owners' #1 expense, which is player salaries.

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Old
10-05-2012, 12:47 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
No they aren't. The only proposal the NHLPA has put forward calls for breaking the linkage between revenue and the salary cap. They want fixed raises over the next 3 or 4 seasons and claim that IF revenue continues to grow over the pace that is has over the last 7 years, that their share will be reduced to something approaching 50%.

There is no guarantee that revenue will continue to increase at that rate. The NHLPA's proposal does nothing to control the owners' #1 expense, which is player salaries.
Bingo......


The NHLPA has only put offers on the table, that are smoke and mirrors.

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Old
10-05-2012, 04:07 AM
  #353
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ALEC MARTINEZ just signed deal with TPS. (FEL).. He should be good addition, right?

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10-05-2012, 04:46 AM
  #354
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I also want to hear comments from Martinez. I think that here is pretty many fans who have seen him play, right?

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:55 AM
  #355
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With all due respect, don't you think you are going a bit overboard?
Probably, but the mix of Fehr and NHL owners doesn't seem to be a good one. The players didn't hire Fehr so that they could just play the game, and we've seen what this overall ownership group(some are different than last time) is willing to do.

I'm usually a glass half empty kind of guy, so I hope I'm just being ridiculous.

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:43 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
ALEC MARTINEZ just signed deal with TPS. (FEL).. He should be good addition, right?
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Originally Posted by Unkki View Post
I also want to hear comments from Martinez. I think that here is pretty many fans who have seen him play, right?
He's a terrific skater and a solid puck moving defensman that doesn't shy away from physical play and can shoot the puck very well from the point.
Without looking at Turkus roster or knowing if he's in great physical shape I would think he should be a fine top pairing or at worst great 2nd pairing defensman for them...

As far as talent goes, I could see Martinez eventually leaving the Kings to pursue higher playing minutes (2nd pairing) and more PP time from a team in the NHL...

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Old
10-05-2012, 10:33 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Bingo......


The NHLPA has only put offers on the table, that are smoke and mirrors.
Exactly. It's hard to see the proposal of the NHLPA making any mathematical sense when the league has shown that although revenue is up, the current state of profitability hangs in the balance due to rapidly increasing spending on player salaries and a huge dichotomy between big market and small market.

The NHLPA really has been ALL smoke and mirrors. The proposal they put forth wasn't very good, and the players, although banded together, seem very misinformed. I mean the Krys Barch rant was really the cherry on top of the whole thing. I keep hearing from the players about "Record revenues." and none of them take into account, or have ever mentioned profitability. It's all about the record revenue.

Well, revenue =/= profit. I can see why the leagues proposals make sense. That's the biggest thing. The TV contract is staying the same for another..what 7 years? The buildings are not getting any bigger, so attendance will never change for teams selling out or teams who are filling half. They can only raise ticket prices so much before people start turning away. So where do you trim the fat? Revenue to the players. They are the biggest cost of operation, and their contract numbers are increasing YEAR AFTER YEAR. In 5-6 years with all these caveats staying the same and the numbers of salaries increasing you can see how essentially teams like Florida, and Phoenix WILL GO BELLY UP. The logical thing in the owners eyes is to roll back on how much they are spending on players, the number one cost in the whole things. Ya know it IS a band-aid over a big wound, but a roll back will at least keep teams afloat, and with a better control over spending on contracts (which for all intents and purposes, the conversations about length, arbitration and ELCs is taking care of that) the league could grow and be healthy.

But here is the biggest question mark to me, and what I have been waiting for this whole time..ya know if the NHLPA put forth a proposal that ALSO made sense, one that countered and stood on it's own against the leagues proposal, I could very well shift my support to the PA. However, the PA has put nothing forward that makes any realistic, economic or rational sense. It's all been sort of, well you said it, smoke and mirrors. Again if they put something feasible forward, something that when I looked at it could say, wow okay this proposal is also good and keeps the league healthy...I would jump on that bandwagon and ride it to victory. They haven't done it. They've done nothing, they've been difficult in a time when difficulty is only leading to lost money, games, fans, and momentum for the league and for everybody.

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Old
10-05-2012, 11:39 AM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Bingo......


The NHLPA has only put offers on the table, that are smoke and mirrors.
agree.

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Old
10-05-2012, 02:29 PM
  #359
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I heard Kevin Westgarth on a web radio broadcast, and one statement in particular irked me.

And that was about the core workers being affected (ticket sellers, ushers, concession workers, etc.), and how they feel so bad about it...implying its the other side's fault.

I am so sick and tired of both sides blaming each other for the "core workers' plight." They are absolutely full of ****. If they were so concerned about the core workers, then they would meet every ****ing day in order to resolve.

So please Kevin...and anyone else who uses these poor workers as a bargaining chip. Please stop that.

It makes me want to throw up.

Here is the link to the interview, starts about 22:30 of the tape.

http://www.*************.com/dannypi...t-sayin--10512

I guess the URL gets masked out for some reason. Blog talk radio. I do not know why this web site blocks it out.

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:43 PM
  #360
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why is westgarth even speaking on the matter? is it because hes a princeton graduate, the guy gets paid a million bucks to take a punch 2 or 3 games a year.

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:56 PM
  #361
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why is westgarth even speaking on the matter? is it because hes a princeton graduate, the guy gets paid a million bucks to take a punch 2 or 3 games a year.
Yes. He is probably one of a handful of guys who can put together an intelligent (albeit bias) unscripted statement on the situation.

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:56 PM
  #362
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why is westgarth even speaking on the matter? is it because hes a princeton graduate, the guy gets paid a million bucks to take a punch 2 or 3 games a year.
Kings' player rep.

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:59 PM
  #363
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These proposals have been nothing more than each side stressing it's position.


The NHL-" We are going to redefine HRR, your are player for less money, and everything e
else is good you just need to play for less and HRR needs to be redefined. "

The players- " There are record revenues, the small markets can't hit the floor because the NHL acts like each team has the same revenue stream. Revenue sharing will solve the problem. So much that we can revert back to the current CBA in three years"



Why aren't the player's coming up with creative solutions? Eklund had a good point about this back in August
Quote:
In the past the NHL has taken creative ideas from the NHLPA and incorporated them on the fly to their own advantage. Who can forget Goodenow proposing a salary rollback instead of a salary cap. The NHL happily took the rollback idea and kept the Cap as well. It was a huge mistake on Goodenow's part and a sign the NHLPA had lost its power when this occurred. The NHL won't be able to pull of that kind of a move at this point, but i do expect them to try and incorporate some of the concepts put forth by the NHLPA over the next several days. It is smart negotiating to allow the other side the appearance of a win by allowing a conceptual pivot as long as you can still get your agenda in the end.


Last edited by Gentle Ben Kenobi: 10-05-2012 at 04:18 PM.
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Old
10-05-2012, 04:12 PM
  #364
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Is Eklund doing lockout rumors too? now that would be classic!

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Old
10-05-2012, 04:14 PM
  #365
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Quote:
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Is Eklund doing lockout rumors too? now that would be classic!
That's how he came to "prominence" in the first place.

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Old
10-05-2012, 04:15 PM
  #366
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Is Eklund doing lockout rumors too? now that would be classic!
Of course! That's how he got started in the first place

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:25 PM
  #367
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So where do you trim the fat? Revenue to the players. They are the biggest cost of operation, and their contract numbers are increasing YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Exactly whose fault is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
But here is the biggest question mark to me, and what I have been waiting for this whole time..ya know if the NHLPA put forth a proposal that ALSO made sense, one that countered and stood on it's own against the leagues proposal, I could very well shift my support to the PA. However, the PA has put nothing forward that makes any realistic, economic or rational sense. It's all been sort of, well you said it, smoke and mirrors. Again if they put something feasible forward, something that when I looked at it could say, wow okay this proposal is also good and keeps the league healthy...I would jump on that bandwagon and ride it to victory. They haven't done it. They've done nothing, they've been difficult in a time when difficulty is only leading to lost money, games, fans, and momentum for the league and for everybody.
You keep making statements about the merits of what each side has offered as if you are in the room. The fact is we have no idea what is really going on in the negotiations.

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:33 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
These proposals have been nothing more than each side stressing it's position.


The NHL-" We are going to redefine HRR, your are player for less money, and everything e
else is good you just need to play for less and HRR needs to be redefined. "

The players- " There are record revenues, the small markets can't hit the floor because the NHL acts like each team has the same revenue stream. Revenue sharing will solve the problem. So much that we can revert back to the current CBA in three years"



Why aren't the player's coming up with creative solutions? Eklund had a good point about this back in August
You forgot:

The Kings - ARE STILL STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!!


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Old
10-05-2012, 05:44 PM
  #369
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You forgot:

The Kings - ARE STILL STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!!


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10-05-2012, 05:57 PM
  #370
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Old
10-05-2012, 06:32 PM
  #371
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KHL games that will be streaming live on ESPN 3 with all times Pacific:

Tuesday: Lev vs. Dynamo Moscow (Alexander Ovechkin) 10 a.m.

Oct 14: Dynamo Moscow vs. Amur, 6 a.m.

Oct. 16: Dynamo Moscow vs. Sibir, 8:30 a.m.

Oct. 18: SKA (Ilya Kovalchuk) vs. Sibir, 8:45 a.m.

Oct. 22: Dinamo Riga vs. Metallurg (Evgeni Malkin and Sergei Gonchar), 9:30 a.m.

Oct. 29: Dynamo Moscow (Ovechkin) vs. Dinamo Riga, 8:30 a.m.

Should at least give us something to watch. It's too bad it won't add any pressure.

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10-05-2012, 06:40 PM
  #372
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Would really screw with ESPN's deal with the KHL if Ovechkin got injured.

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:24 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Told that NHL strongly urged NHLPA in meeting today to come up with new offer. In turn, NHLPA also asked league to come up with new offer...



Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
In short, both sides expressing to each other that it's time to compromise



There's that word...

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:25 PM
  #374
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Meanwhile, a little bit of levity...

Quote:
Stats Canada ‏@stats_canada 869 of the 870 current NHL players are aware of the lockout. Tim Thomas is still hiding out in his freedom bunker.

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Old
10-05-2012, 07:38 PM
  #375
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KHL games that will be streaming live on ESPN 3 with all times Pacific:

Tuesday: Lev vs. Dynamo Moscow (Alexander Ovechkin) 10 a.m.

Oct 14: Dynamo Moscow vs. Amur, 6 a.m.

Oct. 16: Dynamo Moscow vs. Sibir, 8:30 a.m.

Oct. 18: SKA (Ilya Kovalchuk) vs. Sibir, 8:45 a.m.

Oct. 22: Dinamo Riga vs. Metallurg (Evgeni Malkin and Sergei Gonchar), 9:30 a.m.

Oct. 29: Dynamo Moscow (Ovechkin) vs. Dinamo Riga, 8:30 a.m.

Should at least give us something to watch. It's too bad it won't add any pressure.
Are they going to have English play by play?

I wonder if I could get those here in Canada.

I would really be interested in seeing the Sibir games. Odd choice for games though, considering they have no locked out NHLers and only ex-borderliners Kudroc, Safronov and Kulda. They do have KHL leading scorer Jori Lehtera, who may be an option next season to come across to NHL, is having a breakout season so far (only 24 years old). But I am a huge Arturs Kulda fan (who is their #1 D) since he Jets property and a young, slightly better shooting/passing, Rob Scuderi.

Riga and Amur have two of the best fanbases in the KHL though (along with Bratislava and Minsk), so if those games are in those cities (not sure if they are at home in those games) it will be exciting that way.

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