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Old
10-04-2012, 02:05 PM
  #76
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
O'byrne is a top 4 dman in Colorado.
Yeah, he's 4th in ice time (a few seconds more than Ryan Wilson) on a particularily terrible defense corp.

O'Byrne would be no6 on our team and he likely won't get much better. I'm quite happy we have a very good prospect like Bournival instead.

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10-04-2012, 02:11 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
O'byrne is a top 4 dman in Colorado.
How can you blame Latendresse ?? He played REALLY good.
And now Grabs is a 60 points center ..
Lapierre was loved by everybody but Cammy.
Pyatt is now their first C on the P.K. and his doing really good. Had 12 goals last year. Not a quality top 6er bot a quality bottom C.(Who's our 4th line C now ?? Oh yeah... Noke.)

All in all we didnt lose any top liner or game breakers.. We lost alot of depth.
We don't need depth. We need a top 6 forward and a top 4 defenseman. They only player I can really see filling one of those voids would be mcdonagh. Ryder was too long ago (and he had some up and down seasons)... same goes for beauchemin. The rest we don't really need. A big top 6 winger to play with pleks and a top 4 defenseman to play with markov is what this team needs to make the playoffs

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10-04-2012, 03:11 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
new or used?
Judging by this thread I'd say used. He's been in the organization you would think forever. Has played under 4 NHL coaches in his tremendously long career and has seen a turnstile of d-men on the roster the last four years that would be enough to make your head spin.

Just kinda think the kid's been thrown into the fire the last few years. I still think he has potential. Diaz, Subban and Emelin haven't seen what Yannick has seen with all of the Centennial Celebrations, controversy and revolving door of coaches, management, ownership, players. The only thing that's been stable in the organization the last few years is Youppi.

On another note rationalizing O'Byrne being whatever on Montreal's depth chart seems futile given his team actually finished ahead of Montreal in the overall standings.

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Old
10-04-2012, 04:24 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ah ok cool, good to know we'll have one of our 20 years old to be our 7th D and play 25 games a year... should be great for his developement

(Gorges, Markov, Subban, Diaz, Emelin, the guy replacing Bouillon... that's 6 I think )
It's not sure Diaz will be back and Markov could be expendable at that point.

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10-04-2012, 08:00 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
O'Byrne: I'm sorry, but this guy is still not good. He had 10-20 good games with the Avs but he's mediocre at best.
McDonaugh: #1 worst trade, can't defend that
Latendresse: Hasn't done much since he left the Habs. He scored some goals at first, but so did Pouliot. Slow, injury-proned.
Grabovski: he was a cancer, as was Ribeiro, and the Kostitsyns. Unfortunately, cancer has little value and we got a 2nd rounder (ended up being Robert Lang via another trade)
Lapierre: another cancer, are you really that sad losing a 4th liner?
Streit: Should have resigned but Gainey is an idiot.
Ribeiro: #2 worst trade, can't defend that albeit cancer. I would still choose cancer over Ninimaa and a 7th rounder
Beauchemin: c'mon, don't think I was even born.
Ryder: really? You would give this guy $4 M/year? People were angry that Cole is getting $4.5M. Maybe if Ryder spoke French...
Pyatt: another career 4th liner, scores as many goals as Gomez


Point is: You can only be mad at getting nothing in return for something good. Weber ain't good. You can argue that maybe he will be good, but chances are he won't; Other GM's know that and that's why Montreal will get very little in return. He doesn't have the potential to be top 4 D based on his defensive play. He's no McDonaugh or Streit, nor does he have the potential to be. What would you be willing to offer another team for their 8th defensemen with potential to become a 5th or 6th defensemen. Not very much. Why not just play the 8th defensemen then? Because he sucks and we lose games. Let's trade the bag of potatoes for a lottery ticket and move onto more important issues.
you're missing the whole point entirely even though you're assesment of said players is good IMO.

I'll give you a few examples.

1. Pyatt will never be more than a 4th liner, but we lost him for nothing and ended up trading an asset(late pick I think?) to acquire another 4th line C who isnt any better than Pyatt...
2. Ryder isnt a great player, and yeah he's lazy sometimes, but he was good enough to play for a cup winning team (he woke em up in our serie vs them with 3 pts game, did same in SCF vs VAN)... us ? we had Staubitz, White and Geoffrion playing next to #14 last season...
3. Latendresse scored at a 30G/season pace with the Wild, while last season #14 wingers were...
4. we let Streit go for nothing, but we spent assets to acquire guys like Schneider, MaB and Campoli cause we needed more offense from the back end (on PP mostly).


and now, we'll let Weber go for nothing (cause really that's what he worth in a trade if a career AHLer like St Denis bumps him out for whatever reason)... an then what ? we trade assets to acquire a shot from the point on the PP ? really ?

I've read here about BG/PG mismanagement... guess some guys didnt really dislike em as they're willing to do exactly what they've done too often

and the bolded part is a perfect example of that.

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10-04-2012, 09:27 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post

and now, we'll let Weber go for nothing (cause really that's what he worth in a trade if a career AHLer like St Denis bumps him out for whatever reason)... an then what ? we trade assets to acquire a shot from the point on the PP ? really ?

I've read here about BG/PG mismanagement... guess some guys didnt really dislike em as they're willing to do exactly what they've done too often

and the bolded part is a perfect example of that.
Well, if he bumped by somebody that you call an AHLer, he shouldn't be playing, no?

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10-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #82
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I keep checking this thread to see if there is updates on Webers play in Switzerland and all there is banter about old BS that's been debated 100 times over.

GTFO

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Old
10-04-2012, 09:34 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Yeah, he's 4th in ice time (a few seconds more than Ryan Wilson) on a particularily terrible defense corp.

O'Byrne would be no6 on our team and he likely won't get much better. I'm quite happy we have a very good prospect like Bournival instead.
He'd be our 4th dman. Don't kid yourself.

He's better than Kaberle, Diaz, Emelin, Weber, Bouillon and CIE. He's exactly what we have needed. A big tough rh dman, solid in his own zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
We don't need depth. We need a top 6 forward and a top 4 defenseman. They only player I can really see filling one of those voids would be mcdonagh. Ryder was too long ago (and he had some up and down seasons)... same goes for beauchemin. The rest we don't really need. A big top 6 winger to play with pleks and a top 4 defenseman to play with markov is what this team needs to make the playoffs
Ya we need depth. In fact, we need BETTER depth.

Prust-Pyatt-White looks alot more ''contender'' than Prust-Noke-White.

O'byrne, LapÓerre/Pyatt, Mcdonagh, Grabovski and Latendresse could all be an upgrade somewhere.

We'd just replace Bouillon, Nokelainen, Kaberle, Eller/DD(Wing..), Armstrong, 13th forward7

67-Grabs-DD
21-14-72
Tender-81-27
8-41/94-32
53

Looks alot better than

67-58-72
27-14-21
armstrong-81-32
8-noke-53

So does
Mcdo-76
79-26
22-20
compared to

26-76
74-79
22-61

This roster is contender like. It sure lacks one more top 6er able to score 60+ but its still a real good team. Look at that defense.


Last edited by Mrb1p: 10-04-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Old
10-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Well, if he bumped by somebody that you call an AHLer, he shouldn't be playing, no?
difference is, one is a career AHLer, the other is a young dman with some potential, considering we wont be a contender this year (and next probably), chosing the younger dman is a no brainer...

just like last season when the number game got us out of the PO, plaing the young d over UFA to be C. Campoli for the remainder of the season was a no brainer...

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10-05-2012, 05:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I keep checking this thread to see if there is updates on Webers play in Switzerland and all there is banter about old BS that's been debated 100 times over.

GTFO
5 games, 3 g, 2 a, 10 pm. His team is still undefeated

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10-05-2012, 05:31 AM
  #86
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He's playing good over here.....better than Pacioretty.

But I am hoping this will change soon.

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Old
10-05-2012, 06:32 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
difference is, one is a career AHLer, the other is a young dman with some potential, considering we wont be a contender this year (and next probably), chosing the younger dman is a no brainer...

just like last season when the number game got us out of the PO, plaing the young d over UFA to be C. Campoli for the remainder of the season was a no brainer...
Agree on bolded, especially considering there was minimal difference between both.

And why Weber wouldn't be a career AHL'er? or a career LNA-er? Haven't seen anything to the contrary yet, except some sparse flashes...


Last edited by MXD: 10-05-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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Old
10-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Agree on bolded, especially considering there was minimal difference between both.

And why Weber wouldn't be a career AHL'er? or a career LNA-er? Haven't seen anything to the contrary yet, except some sparse flashes...
he could very well end up being one... but to know that, you have to play him, not on the 4th line, not just once in a while neither.

and you have to "work with him" on the defensive side of his game.

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10-05-2012, 11:53 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He'd be our 4th dman. Don't kid yourself.

He's better than Kaberle, Diaz, Emelin, Weber, Bouillon and CIE. He's exactly what we have needed. A big tough rh dman, solid in his own zone.
Kaberle and Emelin are both currently better than O'Byrne. I don't think theres much debate to be had on that, especially in the case of Emelin.

O'Byrne is a secondary player at best. Nice depth but again we're much better off with Bournival in the system. You can usually sign a O'Byrne equivalent for cheap, samething with dime a dozen guys like Pyatt or the other guys you listed.

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10-05-2012, 12:55 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
he could very well end up being one... but to know that, you have to play him, not on the 4th line, not just once in a while neither.

and you have to "work with him" on the defensive side of his game.
Are you implying that the Habs haven't given him a fair chance to play? Or even worse, that they haven't "worked with him" on his defensive game? Do you think they have it out for Weber?

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10-05-2012, 03:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
Are you implying that the Habs haven't given him a fair chance to play? Or even worse, that they haven't "worked with him" on his defensive game? Do you think they have it out for Weber?
that's a serious question ?

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10-05-2012, 03:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Kaberle and Emelin are both currently better than O'Byrne. I don't think theres much debate to be had on that, especially in the case of Emelin.

O'Byrne is a secondary player at best. Nice depth but again we're much better off with Bournival in the system. You can usually sign a O'Byrne equivalent for cheap, samething with dime a dozen guys like Pyatt or the other guys you listed.
Kaberle of last year was total crap, Im not impressed with the secondary assists he got on the PP, defensively and physically he was easily one of the worst defenseman in the league..

Emelin on the other side is already better than OByrne, has underrated puckmoving skills and plays the game with alot of poise.. He is a much better skater than Obyrne and can hit like a train due to his fantastic mobility..

Obyrne is really not a big loss and I still love the trade, the guy has no offensive skills at all and handles the puck like a grenade.. He is purely a stay at home defenseman who struggles with his decision making and has his bad times in the def zone as well.. He is at best an average 5th defenseman who hasnt the mobility to hit with timing as much as he wants.. As another poster pointed out, Colorado has one of the worst D squad in the league, the only reason why Obyrne is given a much larger role than he should..

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10-05-2012, 04:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's a serious question ?
Kaberle was obtained exactly because Weber faltered...

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10-05-2012, 05:03 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's a serious question ?
Wow... Well you've obviously got a strong opinion on Weber, and I'm not here to change your mind. All I can say is that, in his 17 games, Freddy St Denis showed me more than I've ever seen from Weber. For that reason, I would've been surprised if he'd have made it through camp even this year, considering st. denis has to clear waivers, I think..

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10-05-2012, 05:23 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's a serious question ?
Depends on how serious you are about 100+ games over the past 2 seasons not representing a "fair chance". We certainly seemed to learn a lot more and gain more encouragement about Diaz, Emelin, Subban, etc well before their respective 100 game marks.

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10-05-2012, 05:28 PM
  #96
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Depends on how serious you are about 100+ games over the past 2 seasons not representing a "fair chance". We certainly seemed to learn a lot more and gain more encouragement about Diaz, Emelin, Subban, etc well before their respective 100 game marks.
Thank you OJ! Couldn't have said it better.

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10-05-2012, 05:29 PM
  #97
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Weber is too small, weak, soft and suspect positionally to be anything more than a 6th-7th defenseman. His shot is excellent - when he hits the net.

In Switzerland he is more accustomed to the style of play, size of the rink and country.

I know he has done well both over seas and in the AHL, but something's got to give.

Glad to hear he is playing well though.

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10-05-2012, 06:56 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
Wow... Well you've obviously got a strong opinion on Weber, and I'm not here to change your mind. All I can say is that, in his 17 games, Freddy St Denis showed me more than I've ever seen from Weber. For that reason, I would've been surprised if he'd have made it through camp even this year, considering st. denis has to clear waivers, I think..
St Denis is our D version of Tom Pyatt, although not as good in his role. If anything, he showed nothing, not good enough for the PP, not good enough for the PK (a good one that is), not good enough to face top 6/9 forwards...

the difference between him and Weber is that he cant be considered a young player anymore, not much hope that he'll improve.

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10-05-2012, 06:56 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Weber is too small, weak, soft and suspect positionally to be anything more than a 6th-7th defenseman. His shot is excellent - when he hits the net.

In Switzerland he is more accustomed to the style of play, size of the rink and country.

I know he has done well both over seas and in the AHL, but something's got to give.

Glad to hear he is playing well though.
exactly what most of us thought of DD...

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10-05-2012, 08:03 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Depends on how serious you are about 100+ games over the past 2 seasons not representing a "fair chance". We certainly seemed to learn a lot more and gain more encouragement about Diaz, Emelin, Subban, etc well before their respective 100 game marks.
both Diaz and Subban are smooth skaters wich makes em more spectacular... wether they're more efficient or not is irrelevant, they'll always be considered the better players.

Same for Emelin, he hits like a train, so wether he's out of position, is bad +/- and what not doesnt matter, great hits are spectacular so he gets the edge... besides, he and Weber arent at all the same type of players so I dont think it's fair to either to compare them.

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