I'd like to see the Orioles battle the A's in the AL
Nationals in the NL
The most frustrating part of the Orioles is that their recent prospects were all ones we were considering but passed over and apparently they're doing much better than ours. Moskos over Wieters (Moskos isnt even with our team anymore), Taillon over Machado, Cole over Bundy. All of theirs have reached the majors and Machado has been a solid contributor. Another thing that irks me is that I was a big Chris Davis fan as someone I thought he Pirates couldve really targeted from the Rangers for a sack of baseballs. The Orioles got him and a dime a dozen pitcher for a reliever last year at the deadline.
That easily couldve been us with a different direction from management. I was a taillon fan so I cant get up in arms over that pick but I certainly wasnt sold on Cole and well the Wieters one is an obvious mistake. There seems to be a general problem with our player development as well. I don't think Machado would be anywhere near the majors if we drafted him yet the Orioles tried him out right away same with Bundy. In our efforts to try to force things like the fastball academy we run the risk of stagnating our prospects. I realize a lot of it has to do with our market size and management's desire to let the player develop in the minors before running off the MLB service clock but it's getting annoying.
The most frustrating part of the Orioles is that their recent prospects were all ones we were considering but passed over and apparently they're doing much better than ours. Moskos over Wieters (Moskos isnt even with our team anymore), Taillon over Machado, Cole over Bundy. All of theirs have reached the majors and Machado has been a solid contributor. Another thing that irks me is that I was a big Chris Davis fan as someone I thought he Pirates couldve really targeted from the Rangers for a sack of baseballs. The Orioles got him and a dime a dozen pitcher for a reliever last year at the deadline.
That easily couldve been us with a different direction from management. I was a taillon fan so I cant get up in arms over that pick but I certainly wasnt sold on Cole and well the Wieters one is an obvious mistake. There seems to be a general problem with our player development as well. I don't think Machado would be anywhere near the majors if we drafted him yet the Orioles tried him out right away same with Bundy. In our efforts to try to force things like the fastball academy we run the risk of stagnating our prospects. I realize a lot of it has to do with our market size and management's desire to let the player develop in the minors before running off the MLB service clock but it's getting annoying.
That's one of the biggest reasons I can't say Huntington has a done good job. The Orioles have picked almost directly behind the Pirates each of those years and their players are having an impact for a playoff team that plays in the hardest division in baseball. Bundy was a high school pick and made the majors a year later. Machado was a high school pick and is already starting for a playoff team. The O's were as a bad as franchise as the Pirates the last 15 years yet their new GM didn't need 5 years to only improve the depth of the system and make the team go from terrible to bad.
If you do things right, it shouldn't take 5 years to show moderate improvement.
That's one of the biggest reasons I can't say Huntington has a done good job. The Orioles have picked almost directly behind the Pirates each of those years and their players are having an impact for a playoff team that plays in the hardest division in baseball. Bundy was a high school pick and made the majors a year later. Machado was a high school pick and is already starting for a playoff team. The O's were as a bad as franchise as the Pirates the last 15 years yet their new GM didn't need 5 years to only improve the depth of the system and make the team go from terrible to bad.
If you do things right, it shouldn't take 5 years to show moderate improvement.
I do hold some restraint though as the pirates and orioles arent entirely similar. Orioles have a larger market and a larger internal budget to work with. Those things couldve lead to the willingness to bringing players up sooner. Pirates are operating around a 30 million dollar budget and taking a future star pitcher and starting to eat into his MLB service time while he's still largely unaffective is not very efficient. I can sort of see how Huntington might be more hamstrung than normal GM's. It drives me nuts because if MLB had a hard cap and thus a hard salary floor the floor would probably be something like 75mill or so. Pirates are just so far below that floor that it's almost impossible to compete because you're doing everything on the cheap including developing your own prospects.
Did anyone else watch the Cards/Braves game or see the "infield fly" call? Seriously one of the worst calls I've ever seen in any sport. Atlanta fans would be completely justified in burning the city down.
Did anyone else watch the Cards/Braves game or see the "infield fly" call? Seriously one of the worst calls I've ever seen in any sport. Atlanta fans would be completely justified in burning the city down.
Did not see it but turned on MLB network and saw some press conference with Joe Torre and some discussion about an infield fly and I was wondering why on earth is this going on.
In what world can you turn that into a double play? That's entirely against the nature of the rule. Wow.
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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Texas was first place in their whole year and in last game of the season, they lost a game and division title to Oakland. Then they lost a wild card game today and out of playoffs. All of this in 3 days. Wow!
That's one of the biggest reasons I can't say Huntington has a done good job. The Orioles have picked almost directly behind the Pirates each of those years and their players are having an impact for a playoff team that plays in the hardest division in baseball. Bundy was a high school pick and made the majors a year later. Machado was a high school pick and is already starting for a playoff team. The O's were as a bad as franchise as the Pirates the last 15 years yet their new GM didn't need 5 years to only improve the depth of the system and make the team go from terrible to bad.
If you do things right, it shouldn't take 5 years to show moderate improvement.
I do not even have to compare them to anyone picking around when they have. If they had even done average they would have at least have some hope for coming years, especially spending more, as we all hear, in the dollar store aisle than anyone else in the last five years. Until Baseball even took that avenue away from the Pirates. Hell, it has come to the point of quoting Smizak:
Since it's not possible to realistically laud general manager Neal Huntington for the performance of the Pirates, who are 336-471 in his five seasons, in an attempt to show he’s been successful many people point to the team’s minor league system.
That's odd because Huntington's handling of the farm system is one of his greatest failings.
It is astonishing that people praise the Pirates minor-league system. Yes, it is ranked high by some services but that ranking is almost solely the result of a few high draft choices, which the Pirates received because of the poor finishes by Huntington's teams. Anyone equipped with a subscription to Baseball America could have selected the high-end talent Huntington and his staff have picked in the June draft. And those few high-end prospects are the reason the Pirates are ranked high.
There’s no depth to the system. There are no position players on the horizon ready to help a team with gaping holes. There’s no catcher, no shortstop, no corner outfielder, no first baseman.
How can a system so lacking in upper level player-position talent be considered strong?
.....
Let’s go year by year:
The only position player from the 2008 draft class to make any kind of contribution to the Pirates is Pedro Alvarez, who, again, could have been selected by any knowledgeable fan. After him, Jordy Mercer, Chase d’Arnaud and Justin Wilson offer the possibility of being fringe major-leaguers, nothing more.
The 2009 class is worse. No. 1 pick Tony Sanchez has been a huge disappointment. As a college player, he might reasonably be expected to be ready by 2013. But after hitting .233 in a half season at Class AAA, he clearly needs more work. The truth is despite being the fourth overall pick in the draft -- and enormous error in judgment by Huntington -- Sanchez might never be ready.
The only other position player of note from the 2009 class is Brock Holt, who was a September recall. He got off to a hot start but has seven hits in his past 35 at bats and is defensively deficient. Outfielder Evan Chambers, the third-round pick in 2009, hit under .200 at both Bradenton and Altoona this year.
None of the top position players from the 2010 draft -- outfielders Mel Rojas (3rd round), Dan Grovatt (11) Drew Maggi (15) and Matt Curry (16) have the look of potential major leaguers.
In the 2011 draft, the Pirates went for position players in the second and third rounds. Second-rounder Josh Bell, considered an excellent prospect, was injured this season, his first as a pro, and had minimal playing time. Third-rounder Alex Dickerson drove in 90 runs and had an .803 OPS at Class A Bradenton, but PiratesProspects.com had this to say about that performance: ``He’s got the potential to be a plus power hitter, but needs to do a lot better than his 2012 season.’’
There are players in low Class A that are titillating the Huntington supporters, and Alen Hanson and Gregory Polanco are good-looking prospects. But low Class A numbers don’t carry much meaning. And, at best, those players, including Bell, are at least three and probably four years away.
Huntington was considered canny by paying oveslot bonuses to entice players away from college. Instead, almost to a man those players have been hugely disappointing.
Huntington has failed in building a strong farm system. It’s almost laughable that people praise him for what he’s done.
Look, I love to see the Pirates fail. I do a little dance each time they crash and burn because Nutting, who I hope burns in hell and chokes on the $20 million plus he reportedly earned this year by being a cheap mother ****er.
But that said, how people can defend Huntington, especially to those of us who said he was a dumb ass hire at the time (no search at all, had been demoted for being a moron by Cleveland just before Nutting sent him roses and candy)? Can you not see failure before your eyes? Do some need a sign with big neon letters? The guy, and the entire scouting staff, sucks balls. It has been obvious for a long time. Not that I have any confidence that the next hire will not be better suited to asking you if you want fries with your order.
While it's the offseason, do you guys think we should un-sticky this thread and keep random baseball chat in the Pittsburgh thread? I just feel there won't be a lot of activity now that the season is over.
While it's the offseason, do you guys think we should un-sticky this thread and keep random baseball chat in the Pittsburgh thread? I just feel there won't be a lot of activity now that the season is over.
What say you?
My plan was for the baseball thread to last for the season and then get woven back into the all-purpose Pittsburgher thread during the off-season.
My vote is to unsticky the thread and I'll make a new one around the time Spring Training starts.
