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Lockout Thread: Games thru Nov. 30th to be cancelled| Part III.

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:58 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I wish we could form our own lockout. For every game they cancel, fans should refuse to attend/watch as many games after the greedy SOB's decide to end this childish crap. As a season ticket holder for many years, i have actually had my letters to both the NHL and MLSE answered. Both have supported their stance by saying essentially "the fans are going to have to live with the lockout as we NEED to fix things". My response to both is this, without we "fans", you have nothing to fix. We are the reason tv contracts are so great. We are the reason there was a 3 plus billion dollar profit. Any union in any trade knows enough to begin negotiating a contract well before a lockout date, and well before they alienate the people who give them a reason to excist...except this one.
that really only affects the owners as once the new deal is in place the Players will be gaurenteed there money. also the 2nd bolded part is probably a typo but it's revenue not profit

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10-05-2012, 06:03 PM
  #27
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Told that NHL strongly urged NHLPA in meeting today to come up with new offer. In turn, NHLPA also asked league to come up with new offer...

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: In short, both sides expressing to each other that it's time to compromise

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10-05-2012, 06:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bills09 View Post
@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Told that NHL strongly urged NHLPA in meeting today to come up with new offer. In turn, NHLPA also asked league to come up with new offer...

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: In short, both sides expressing to each other that it's time to compromise
Sounds like they both want to get this done but don't know where to start.

They need to bring in an independent moderator asap.

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10-05-2012, 06:39 PM
  #29
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if the deal gets done

does that mean we still have to wait 2 weeks?

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10-05-2012, 07:10 PM
  #30
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if the deal gets done

does that mean we still have to wait 2 weeks?
I'd imagine training camps would start within a few days, but the games won't start for a couple weeks.

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10-05-2012, 08:54 PM
  #31
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Maybe that guy on here who said he knows Biznasty's dad (and was told things would be worked out by the 9th) was right after all


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10-05-2012, 09:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
that really only affects the owners as once the new deal is in place the Players will be gaurenteed there money. also the 2nd bolded part is probably a typo but it's revenue not profit
Sorry, yes it is a typo. And i know my idea only harms the owners as i soley blame the owners (NHL) for this lockout. It is the owners/teams that have awarded the players with the contracts/payscale they are now whining about. When your business as a whole turns revenue of 3+ billion dollars and you show a profit, you can't cry poverty. If a few of the franchises are losing money, you don't ask 100% of you work force for a rollback in their pay. You do not lockout the workforce of 30 franchises because 5-8 are not turning a profit. What you do in the real world is eithet shut down said money losing franchises or you put them where they can succed.

I apologise for spelling, i am typing on my phone.

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10-05-2012, 09:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dougieg93 View Post
I wonder if it could ever be a strategy for the NHL Board to threaten the contraction of teams (namely Phoenix) in order to get a deal done. Mind you a contraction should be perceived to be extremely bad for the owners as well - as what would this mean for their valuation the fact that teams dissolve without compensation? However I think players should be more sensitive about this issue as this lowers the overall slice of their pie and of course the number of jobs available.
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You cannot have contraction without a cost to it. Teams being contracted would have to bought out by the remaining owners. It would be a very expensive option and would leave markets exposed for a rogue league which again would be very costly. Contraction will not happen.
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Originally Posted by dougieg93 View Post
Thanks for responding to my post, and that does make sense, but at the same time I wonder if the cost of buying out a team is that big. Judging from Daly's response that collectively the league lost 100 million in revenue from losing out the preseason, and the cost of buying out an average hockey team is around 300 million, it doesn't seem like such gargantuan expense the fact that the cost is distributed and especially that the players are asking for ~250 Million in revenue sharing per year.
Who owns the Coyotes?

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10-06-2012, 01:19 AM
  #34
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The good news is that they are starting to hammer out some meetings. This is good news. Took them long enough. Not sure why business people need to lose money to "win the battle". It's not good for business and it's not good for either of them. It makes more sense to get the deal done and make money sooner instead of losing money.

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10-06-2012, 01:27 AM
  #35
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The good news is that they are starting to hammer out some meetings. This is good news. Took them long enough. Not sure why business people need to lose money to "win the battle". It's not good for business and it's not good for either of them. It makes more sense to get the deal done and make money sooner instead of losing money.
It is because of their egos.

The only thing big business men care about more than their money is their ego.

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10-06-2012, 05:00 AM
  #36
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It may just be anger and frustration setting in but I'm losing patience with the entire league. I'm beginning to question myself as to whether I will actually tune in when this is all over. Beyond pathetic now.
About 6 years ago I got into the NFL purely because of fantasy sport. I genuinely really enjoy the game now, but what's really mind blowing to me is the quality of the league itself.

I love Hockey and Basketball, and I thought the NHL/NBA were solid leagues before I really saw how the pros do it. Seriously-- great sports, but complete bush league compared to the NFL. This is not to say the NFL hasn't had issues (threat of lockout, refs etc), but the way things got handled is immensely different. It makes me sad, because in the last few years the NHL was really looking like it had generated some positive momentum/could grow itself into the sport I think we all know it can be. They then choose to use that momentum like this. Makes you wonder what the NHL could look like with competent management.


Last edited by Platapie: 10-06-2012 at 05:11 AM.
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10-06-2012, 07:45 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Everlong;54792907[B
]Sounds like they both want to get this done but don't know where to start.[/B]

They need to bring in an independent moderator asap.
Someone should have told them last summer was a good place to start...IDIOTS!

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10-06-2012, 08:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Who owns the Coyotes?

The NHL, which means all the League owners? If this is correct, it doesn't make sense to pay themselves vs reporting the loss.

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10-06-2012, 09:31 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Sorry, yes it is a typo. And i know my idea only harms the owners as i soley blame the owners (NHL) for this lockout. It is the owners/teams that have awarded the players with the contracts/payscale they are now whining about. When your business as a whole turns revenue of 3+ billion dollars and you show a profit, you can't cry poverty. If a few of the franchises are losing money, you don't ask 100% of you work force for a rollback in their pay. You do not lockout the workforce of 30 franchises because 5-8 are not turning a profit. What you do in the real world is eithet shut down said money losing franchises or you put them where they can succed.

I apologise for spelling, i am typing on my phone.
Or why not just stop forcing those money losing teams to spend to the cap floor.

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10-06-2012, 10:51 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
You cannot have contraction without a cost to it. Teams being contracted would have to bought out by the remaining owners. It would be a very expensive option and would leave markets exposed for a rogue league which again would be very costly. Contraction will not happen.
A cost benefit analysis would be needed. For instance, if it would take $180 million to buy the Panthers, how much would the owners save per year in both revenue sharing and the portion of national revenue given to the Panthers (their slice of TV, Internet, merchandise revenue). If it's, say, $30 million total, it would take only six years to recoup their investment.

Yes, a rogue hockey league would be started and move into such prime markets as Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, and Dallas. . . .

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10-06-2012, 10:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
I love Hockey and Basketball, and I thought the NHL/NBA were solid leagues before I really saw how the pros do it. Seriously-- great sports, but complete bush league compared to the NFL. This is not to say the NFL hasn't had issues (threat of lockout, refs etc), but the way things got handled is immensely different.

It makes me sad, because in the last few years the NHL was really looking like it had generated some positive momentum/could grow itself into the sport I think we all know it can be. They then choose to use that momentum like this. Makes you wonder what the NHL could look like with competent management.
New Orleans situation was handled professionally?

From what I hear it was a complete witch hunt by Goodell and they didn't even try and justify it to the players.

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Old
10-06-2012, 11:07 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Who owns the Coyotes?
And do you think the NHL (as owners) have any interest in contraction where they would receive zero dollars for that franchise?

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10-06-2012, 11:09 AM
  #43
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And do you think the NHL (as owners) have any interest in contraction where they would receive zero dollars for that franchise?
Make much more sense to relocate it than leave it in a failed market.

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10-06-2012, 11:29 AM
  #44
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Make much more sense to relocate it than leave it in a failed market.
Yes it does but what does that have to do with contraction which is what started this?

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10-06-2012, 11:45 AM
  #45
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Yes it does but what does that have to do with contraction which is what started this?
Actually, it has been suggested it be move, contracted et cetera.

If you aren't willing to move it you'd have to consider contracting it or finding a buyer with real, not imagined, money willing to continuously lose money.

Can you tell me where the money would go if the owners had to pay the league for the cost of contracting the Coyotes?

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10-06-2012, 11:47 AM
  #46
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Sounds like they both want to get this done but don't know where to start.

They need to bring in an independent moderator asap.
I feel like the NHL needs to scrap the position of the commissioner, or at least restructure the leadership so you have a Donald Fehr counterpart representing the owners but then also a neutral commissioner who can arbitrate between the two parties and also be a better custodian of the league.

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10-06-2012, 11:53 AM
  #47
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And do you think the NHL (as owners) have any interest in contraction where they would receive zero dollars for that franchise?
I don't think that's a deterrent to buying out a franchise if you apply the HRR paid to Phoenix, I'm not sure they would be paying much to dissolve that cost, especially if they gain back some of the percentage of HRR from the players.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-glendale.html

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It's been widely reported that the NHL hopes to get $170 million for the team. A recent Forbes valuation found the team to be worth about $36 million less.
http://www.intelligencer.ca/2012/08/...s-latest-offer

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Commissioner Gary Bettman had offered new terms on a revenue split, coming off the 43% in revenue sharing that had players up in arms, to what he hoped was a more palatable 46%. Each percentage point could be worth as much as $30 million US, but after benefitting from a 57% cut for the seven years of the current deal, the players aren't willing to give back without the owners showing more of their HRR cards.

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Old
10-06-2012, 12:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
I don't think that's a deterrent to buying out a franchise if you apply the HRR paid to Phoenix, I'm not sure they would be paying much to dissolve that cost, especially if they gain back some of the percentage of HRR from the players.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-glendale.html



http://www.intelligencer.ca/2012/08/...s-latest-offer
I think they would more than likely sell the Yotes and allow them to move similiar to the 170 million dollar Atlanta deal, in other words no contraction.

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10-06-2012, 12:13 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Actually, it has been suggested it be move, contracted et cetera.

If you aren't willing to move it you'd have to consider contracting it or finding a buyer with real, not imagined, money willing to continuously lose money.

Can you tell me where the money would go if the owners had to pay the league for the cost of contracting the Coyotes?
They will either find a buyer in Phoenix or move it, they will not contract it.

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10-06-2012, 12:14 PM
  #50
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They will either find a buyer in Phoenix or move it, they will not contract it.
I don't disagree, and I think the Atlanta to Winnipeg situation showed how quickly that can happen.

I'm curious about where the money would go if they did contract it?

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