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Old
10-05-2012, 08:25 PM
  #101
MXD
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
St Denis is our D version of Tom Pyatt, although not as good in his role. If anything, he showed nothing, not good enough for the PP, not good enough for the PK (a good one that is), not good enough to face top 6/9 forwards...

the difference between him and Weber is that he cant be considered a young player anymore, not much hope that he'll improve.
..Wait...
What?!?!?!

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10-05-2012, 10:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
both Diaz and Subban are smooth skaters wich makes em more spectacular... wether they're more efficient or not is irrelevant, they'll always be considered the better players.

Same for Emelin, he hits like a train, so wether he's out of position, is bad +/- and what not doesnt matter, great hits are spectacular so he gets the edge... besides, he and Weber arent at all the same type of players so I dont think it's fair to either to compare them.
They're all in competition for the same 6/7 roster positions, so of course it's fair to compare them. How else do you decide who to keep/develop??

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10-06-2012, 02:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
They're all in competition for the same 6/7 roster positions, so of course it's fair to compare them. How else do you decide who to keep/develop??
not really, their style is so different you just cant, usually the guy that is kept because of something specific he brings, like on a team filled with heavy hitters Emelin may not THAT interesting, but on the other hand if all you have is finesse players you'll gladly welcome him on your team... same goes for Weber...

and they wouldnt fill the same need for a team obviously.

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10-06-2012, 02:47 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
..Wait...
What?!?!?!
what what ? you'd be happy with a 7th D plaing regular shifts on your PK ?

seriously...

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10-06-2012, 07:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
what what ? you'd be happy with a 7th D plaing regular shifts on your PK ?

seriously...
If the said 7th is better than the 10th D-Men, yes.

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10-06-2012, 01:05 PM
  #106
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If the said 7th is better than the 10th D-Men, yes.
ah ok I see, you dont mind your team losing.

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10-06-2012, 05:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ah ok I see, you dont mind your team losing.
Well, a team has more chances to lose if a 10th D-Men is a regular than if a 7th D-Men is a regular.

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10-06-2012, 05:07 PM
  #108
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Losing a lot last year was the difference between getting Galchenyuk or a lower ceiling prospect.

I'd do it again this year, if we had a shortened season.

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10-06-2012, 07:05 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Losing a lot last year was the difference between getting Galchenyuk or a lower ceiling prospect.

I'd do it again this year, if we had a shortened season.
We could have ended up with Grigorenko, Forsberg or Teravainen, hardly a lower ceiling prospect albeit a riskier one. We still have no idea if Galchenyuk will be better than them though.

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10-06-2012, 07:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Kaberle and Emelin are both currently better than O'Byrne. I don't think theres much debate to be had on that, especially in the case of Emelin.

O'Byrne is a secondary player at best. Nice depth but again we're much better off with Bournival in the system. You can usually sign a O'Byrne equivalent for cheap, samething with dime a dozen guys like Pyatt or the other guys you listed.
I love Emelin.. Really. And i'm a Kaberle defender. But no way they're better than ROB...

Emelin when he's on his game okay.. But that was like 10 games this season. (I still take Alexei before him..cause he has a much higher ceiling.) But at the moment.. ROB would be exactly what we need. You guy's remember him from the scoring in his own goal days.. He's grown alot since these days and now he's a #5 on many teams and a 4 on some(Including ours.). Watch Colorado play you'll understand.

Now I'm not saying hes some kind of all-star or nothing.. but he's a good depth dman. We need exactly what he brings. He's not the best candidate for this job for sure.. But i'd prefer him getting 2nd PK waves than diaz or triple shifting subban.

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10-06-2012, 10:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Well, a team has more chances to lose if a 10th D-Men is a regular than if a 7th D-Men is a regular.
really ?

in both cases their chances of losing are VERY good...

difference is, with one you may have an asset you can stil develop into something useful (maybe not), with the other you dont.

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10-06-2012, 10:50 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I love Emelin.. Really. And i'm a Kaberle defender. But no way they're better than ROB...

Emelin when he's on his game okay.. But that was like 10 games this season. (I still take Alexei before him..cause he has a much higher ceiling.) But at the moment.. ROB would be exactly what we need. You guy's remember him from the scoring in his own goal days.. He's grown alot since these days and now he's a #5 on many teams and a 4 on some(Including ours.). Watch Colorado play you'll understand.

Now I'm not saying hes some kind of all-star or nothing.. but he's a good depth dman. We need exactly what he brings. He's not the best candidate for this job for sure.. But i'd prefer him getting 2nd PK waves than diaz or triple shifting subban.
It's not just the own goal. While O'Byrne never really got a decent chance in Montréal, most of the games he played for us were either meh or bad, but to his defense, that's mostly because he never earned any of his coaches' trust. He had no confidence out there. He couldn't handle the puck and he just did an overall poor job for a guy his size. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't god awful, he just really wasn't good. It's too bad he never was given a chance to build up some confidence though.

Kind of reminds me of someone currently in the organization...

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10-06-2012, 11:22 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
really ?

in both cases their chances of losing are VERY good...

difference is, with one you may have an asset you can stil develop into something useful (maybe not), with the other you dont.
Who was better three years ago?
Yannic Weber or Frederick St-Denis?

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10-07-2012, 05:46 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Who was better three years ago?
Yannic Weber or Frederick St-Denis?
are you really trying to prove something like, St Denis is more than a 7th D and will improve enough to become a regular D in the nhl ?

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10-07-2012, 06:04 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I love Emelin.. Really. And i'm a Kaberle defender. But no way they're better than ROB...
Are you for real?

How do you discern good defensive performances, do you just point at the screen with your eyes closed and whoever your fingers on is your new defensive stalwart?

Both Kabs and Emelin are better than O'Byrne, jesus christ I can't believe I had to type that sentence out.

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10-07-2012, 09:35 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
are you really trying to prove something like, St Denis is more than a 7th D and will improve enough to become a regular D in the nhl ?
Read again.

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10-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
are you really trying to prove something like, St Denis is more than a 7th D and will improve enough to become a regular D in the nhl ?
Are you trying to prove otherwise?

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10-07-2012, 03:10 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
are you really trying to prove something like, St Denis is more than a 7th D and will improve enough to become a regular D in the nhl ?
Weber hasn't gotten better in the last 3 years. St. Denis has. Weber was the best prospect then but some guys start with a higher level and stop improving while others start low but keep getting better. Now St. Denis looks better.

Nobody is saying that St. Denis is going to be an amazing defensemen but he's easily reached Weber's level and might even be better. St. Denis has been improving and Weber has not so its not completely out of the blue to claim St. Denis might end up being the better player.

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10-07-2012, 03:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Are you for real?

How do you discern good defensive performances, do you just point at the screen with your eyes closed and whoever your fingers on is your new defensive stalwart?

Both Kabs and Emelin are better than O'Byrne, jesus christ I can't believe I had to type that sentence out.
Kaberle yes, probably. But O'Byrne is clearly superior to Emelin.

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10-07-2012, 03:29 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Kaberle yes, probably. But O'Byrne is clearly superior to Emelin.
Clearly superior? Lets put it that way ; would you trade Emelin to acquire O'Byrne?

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10-07-2012, 04:30 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Weber hasn't gotten better in the last 3 years. St. Denis has. Weber was the best prospect then but some guys start with a higher level and stop improving while others start low but keep getting better. Now St. Denis looks better.

Nobody is saying that St. Denis is going to be an amazing defensemen but he's easily reached Weber's level and might even be better. St. Denis has been improving and Weber has not so its not completely out of the blue to claim St. Denis might end up being the better player.
oh I see... he LOOKS better ok...

and at 24, 25, he kept improving...


really...

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10-07-2012, 04:44 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
oh I see... he LOOKS better ok...

and at 24, 25, he kept improving...


really...
St. Denis also improved from 20 (where he was below-average for an overager in the Q) to 24 (where he established himself as a regular AHL'er), and not only from 24 to 26. One could even say that, when Yannic Weber was 19, he was a better hockey player than St. Denis was at that moment (St-Denis was 21-22 then, and played for UQTR).

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10-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
It's not just the own goal. While O'Byrne never really got a decent chance in Montréal, most of the games he played for us were either meh or bad, but to his defense, that's mostly because he never earned any of his coaches' trust. He had no confidence out there. He couldn't handle the puck and he just did an overall poor job for a guy his size. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't god awful, he just really wasn't good. It's too bad he never was given a chance to build up some confidence though.

Kind of reminds me of someone currently in the organization...
I know he wasnt good here. Doesnt mean he's like that there. He's improved his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Are you for real?

How do you discern good defensive performances, do you just point at the screen with your eyes closed and whoever your fingers on is your new defensive stalwart?

Both Kabs and Emelin are better than O'Byrne, jesus christ I can't believe I had to type that sentence out.
Way to go! I'm happy to know your opinion! Now care to explain why? I don't see much of it in your post..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Kaberle yes, probably. But O'Byrne is clearly superior to Emelin.
Kaberle is sure superior to O'byrne on the defensive and physical side of the game heh? I was basing myself on the fact that we need a TOUGH STAY AT HOME DMAN. Who's better suited ? Kaberle or O'byrne ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Clearly superior? Lets put it that way ; would you trade Emelin to acquire O'Byrne?
Emelin was god awful at some time last season. He was lost. He was amazing at times. I'm basing myself on this.

But now you're just bringing one sided opinion. Emelin still has room to grow, while O'Byrne is O'Byrne.

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10-08-2012, 12:18 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
St. Denis also improved from 20 (where he was below-average for an overager in the Q) to 24 (where he established himself as a regular AHL'er), and not only from 24 to 26. One could even say that, when Yannic Weber was 19, he was a better hockey player than St. Denis was at that moment (St-Denis was 21-22 then, and played for UQTR).
So, a guy improved to the point of fighting for the 7th D spot AT 26... clearly, that's a good reason to dump a younger player for...

or maybe since he was undrafted, played both the ECHL and AHL, he's the next DD... right ? it has to be something like that to defend a career AHLer that much ?

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10-08-2012, 07:28 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, a guy improved to the point of fighting for the 7th D spot AT 26... clearly, that's a good reason to dump a younger player for...

or maybe since he was undrafted, played both the ECHL and AHL, he's the next DD... right ? it has to be something like that to defend a career AHLer that much ?
You realize that you're defending the player who :

a) Is the lesser player, as shown by last season
b) Is 24 years old (which is, in the grand scheme of things, not that old, but it's not like he's 20, and isn't much younger than 26)
c) Has Shown no improvement whatsoever in the last 3 years

To be honest, Frédérick St-Denis wouldn't have been in my starting lineup if there would have been a season, because there is no room for him at this point. Diaz and Bouillon are both ahead of him.

First call up? Possibly, due to the fact that he's pretty versatile.

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