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Lockout Thread: Games thru Nov. 30th to be cancelled| Part III.

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Old
10-06-2012, 01:23 PM
  #51
TheOneArmedMan
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So they had to wait until they start loosing money to start increasing the amount of meetings? Should done something over the summer.

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10-06-2012, 01:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TheOneArmedMan View Post
So they had to wait until they start loosing money to start increasing the amount of meetings? Should done something over the summer.
If they make progress they'll still get in 82 games and lose no money, and have less competition as MLB will be done.

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10-06-2012, 02:11 PM
  #53
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I don't disagree, and I think the Atlanta to Winnipeg situation showed how quickly that can happen.

I'm curious about where the money would go if they did contract it?
I would assume it would be structured similiar to the Jets deal. Jets paid 170 million which included a 60 million relocation fee. The Atlanta owners got 110 million. The re-location fee was distributed to the other 29 teams.

The NHL bought the Yotes for 130 million in 2009. I would assume all the proceeds from a sale would go to the NHL to cover thier cost plus accumulated losses.

But what do I know, I'm pulling this out of my ass.

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10-06-2012, 03:00 PM
  #54
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I would assume it would be structured similiar to the Jets deal. Jets paid 170 million which included a 60 million relocation fee. The Atlanta owners got 110 million. The re-location fee was distributed to the other 29 teams.

The NHL bought the Yotes for 130 million in 2009. I would assume all the proceeds from a sale would go to the NHL to cover thier cost plus accumulated losses.

But what do I know, I'm pulling this out of my ass.
Well those are some"dirty" stats....bah-da-bum

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10-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post


My sides are hurting so much.

I know you aren't suggesting they will but, the mere thought there could still be people who think they might is hilarious. Key Arena should have a new tenant by next fall.
I might be in the minority but I don't want to see a franchise in Seattle. That market might be only a slight improvement on Phoenix.

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10-06-2012, 03:38 PM
  #56
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I might be in the minority but I don't want to see a franchise in Seattle. That market might be only a slight improvement on Phoenix.
I'm not a huge believer in Seattle either, but they do have 6-7 WHL teams (Vancouver, Victoria, Everett, Seattle, TriCity, Spokane, Portland) within driving distance indicating there are some hockey fans around, not to mention a relatively short drive for a few million Canadians. They have a population base of 3 million people and will have a state of the art arena in a few years.

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10-06-2012, 06:06 PM
  #57
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New Orleans situation was handled professionally?

From what I hear it was a complete witch hunt by Goodell and they didn't even try and justify it to the players.
Depends on whether or not you believe the allegations.

Regardless, two things.

1. I never said they were perfect. I disagree with some things, and they have challenges, but by and large, the difference between the way the NHL and NBA are run (the only other leagues I follow), and the NFL is night and day.

2. At least the NFL has a back bone. This is even worse in the NBA, but in the NHL the league won't ban a superstar for a long period of time without SEVERE prodding. The only situation I can really think of is the Bertuzzi fiasco. The NBA is even worse when it comes to doling out punishment to fix what they see as a wrong. The NFL, right or wrong, is willing to be very heavy handed (suspending players for 3+ games fairly easily), and 3+ games is ~15 games in the NHL.

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10-07-2012, 01:59 AM
  #58
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Players say that struggling teams should relocate...how many people are lining up to buy these franchises? Quebec doesn't even have an arena yet. Take your pick with locations, Quebec seems to be about the only location you can pick where you're guaranteed a strong and loyal fanbase. Players are saying that they have to cut their share so that struggling teams can prosper. Well, the alternative is that you can cut your share to help new locations settle in and you can only hope that it eventually works out because there sure as hell are no scientific methods that will guarantee success. Either way, you're share is being cut.

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10-07-2012, 02:31 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

All doom and gloom from Bob.
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Biggest fear, and maybe this why it won't last all season, is if it goes whole season, prospects of 2nd season being affected are high IMO.

After 30+ years watchin the league, I'd be done if that's the case. And I wouldn't have any regrets either.

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10-07-2012, 02:36 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Biggest fear, and maybe this why it won't last all season, is if it goes whole season, prospects of 2nd season being affected are high IMO.

After 30+ years watchin the league, I'd be done if that's the case. And I wouldn't have any regrets either.
If it extends multiple seasons, the league will die. I'm gunna be close to gone if this season is cancelled, but if NEXT years season is at all affected, and I mean even training camps starting late or preseason games cancelled, **** em.

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10-07-2012, 03:11 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

All doom and gloom from Bob.
yikes now that sucks.

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10-07-2012, 03:28 AM
  #62
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Normally, Google.ca sees a surge in NHL interest every September as Canadians turn their attention to hockey. As shown by the 2011 numbers, the searches for the NHL quickly outpace those for the NFL. Google compresses the search numbers into a scale of zero to 100 and by Oct. 1, 2011, there were 52 NHL searches for every 37 on the NFL.
Once NHL commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout on Sept. 16, that trend was reversed. The NFL began outpacing the NHL in August as it became clear there would be a lockout and the day it was announced the leagues moved in different directions. The NFL continued to climb and the NHL fell off. By Oct. 2, there were 76 NFL searches on a scale of 100 compared to 35 for the NHL.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...31/?cmpid=rss1

Go football?

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10-07-2012, 06:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post

I actually work for Google and have internal access to the real data (e.g not indexed or limited to one search term). Let me see if I'm allowed to put together a public more in depth analysis of this idea, I think it's interesting.

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10-07-2012, 06:56 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
I actually work for Google and have internal access to the real data (e.g not indexed or limited to one search term). Let me see if I'm allowed to put together a public more in depth analysis of this idea, I think it's interesting.
Now that would be awesome mate.

------------------------------------------------

Q&A WITH DONALD FEHR
Donald Fehr: The players' defender
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...38/?cmpid=rss1

Q&A WITH GARY BETTMAN
Gary Bettman: The lightning rod
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4593336/

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10-07-2012, 08:05 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post
Now that would be awesome mate.

------------------------------------------------

Q&A WITH DONALD FEHR
Donald Fehr: The players' defender
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...38/?cmpid=rss1

Q&A WITH GARY BETTMAN
Gary Bettman: The lightning rod
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4593336/
Very good QA with Fehr. Makes his points very well. Couple things though, especially regarding relocation. Does anyone believe there are 30 potential NHL cities that can support a 50m floor?

Also, regarding the 50/50, I don't think there's any question that a huge cut is coming eventually. Comments like Fehr's regarding the 50%, and the players being 'entitled' to jobs are what keep me from fully understanding the players side of it.

All that being side, I am also firmly entrenched in the belief that the owners also need to develop a meaningful revenue sharing system or teams like Dallas, the Floridas, the Cali teams, Nashville, etc will never survive.

In the end, if the owners bite the bullet now and help develop the markets down there it will mean much more money for them (tv etc) later. Am I the only one who sees this?

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10-07-2012, 09:20 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
I actually work for Google and have internal access to the real data (e.g not indexed or limited to one search term). Let me see if I'm allowed to put together a public more in depth analysis of this idea, I think it's interesting.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing that, thanks in advance if you're able to do it.

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Old
10-07-2012, 11:43 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Very good QA with Fehr. Makes his points very well. Couple things though, especially regarding relocation. Does anyone believe there are 30 potential NHL cities that can support a 50m floor?

Also, regarding the 50/50, I don't think there's any question that a huge cut is coming eventually. Comments like Fehr's regarding the 50%, and the players being 'entitled' to jobs are what keep me from fully understanding the players side of it.

All that being side, I am also firmly entrenched in the belief that the owners also need to develop a meaningful revenue sharing system or teams like Dallas, the Floridas, the Cali teams, Nashville, etc will never survive.

In the end, if the owners bite the bullet now and help develop the markets down there it will mean much more money for them (tv etc) later. Am I the only one who sees this?
30 teams and 50m floor, nope don't see that as possible.

I want to see the floor dropped, i want to see the % spread between floor and cap grow. Forcing teams to spend money they don't have is insane. There should be no stipulations on how one receives full rev share.

Couple of issues tho, if the floor drops to much, how do the players get their full % of HRR? How do you get to a 50/50 split without the cap going totally out of whack?

The owners chose team locations and the likes, well, they need to pay for those shortfalls in markets when they occur. This should not be a player issue, since they have no say in the matter.

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10-07-2012, 01:23 PM
  #68
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If it extends multiple seasons, the league will die. I'm gunna be close to gone if this season is cancelled, but if NEXT years season is at all affected, and I mean even training camps starting late or preseason games cancelled, **** em.
I watched a 6 team league. I don't even reside in Leafs' territory. Leafs were my team when I wasn't even in the country.

I'll watch when they come back whether it is a 30 team league or a 12 team league. Personally, I could care less if half the players were without jobs and half the owners lost the bundle.

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10-07-2012, 01:36 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
30 teams and 50m floor, nope don't see that as possible.

I want to see the floor dropped, i want to see the % spread between floor and cap grow. Forcing teams to spend money they don't have is insane. There should be no stipulations on how one receives full rev share.

Couple of issues tho, if the floor drops to much, how do the players get their full % of HRR? How do you get to a 50/50 split without the cap going totally out of whack?

The owners chose team locations and the likes, well, they need to pay for those shortfalls in markets when they occur. This should not be a player issue, since they have no say in the matter.
Absolutely the owners hold that responsibility. However, again no matter which way you go, salaries are going to need to come down for 30 markets to succeed. Should Toronto be helping Phoenix? Yes. Should they basically be part owners? No.

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10-07-2012, 02:56 PM
  #70
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The 2012-13 NHL season that could have been by Elliotte Friedman
Hockey Night in Canada commentator Elliotte Friedman envisions the New York Rangers winning the Stanley Cup to cap off a unique, hypothetical version of the 2012-13 NHL season.
June 25, 2013 -- One reporter's look back at a spectacular NHL season

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...have-been.html

Fun times.

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Old
10-07-2012, 03:01 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Absolutely the owners hold that responsibility. However, again no matter which way you go, salaries are going to need to come down for 30 markets to succeed. Should Toronto be helping Phoenix? Yes. Should they basically be part owners? No.
Disagree, the league is a joint venture and sustainability of the league is their responsibility just as much as the players.

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10-07-2012, 03:17 PM
  #72
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wow imagine nhl as we know it ended

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10-08-2012, 09:34 AM
  #73
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Disagree, the league is a joint venture and sustainability of the league is their responsibility just as much as the players.
On the whole yes, player salaries needs to come down some % points closer to 50/50 BUT to point to a team like Phoenix and use them as the poster child, the team that new CBA needs to fix? Hell no.

That fix needs to come from the owners side of it.

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10-09-2012, 10:10 PM
  #74
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Fehr says if lockout continues they might question the actual salary cap structure

Quote:
Donald Fehr expressed some hope that collective bargaining talks this week will help lead to some resolution.

But he also made it clear in an hour-long meeting with the Toronto Star’s editorial board that the longer the NHL lockoutlasts, the less happy the players will be playing under a salary cap.

“If this goes on for an extended period of time, I don’t know what they (the players) are going to do. But I think it’s safe to say, they would be exploring all options,” said Fehr.

He added the players can live with a salary cap if an agreement can be reached quickly.

“Where the players are, they want to make a deal,” Fehr said. “Even though the owners’ proposal went as far away from the players as they could, the players did not respond in kind. They made a proposal which moved in the owners’ direction. If there can be an agreement in a relatively short term which puts the pieces back together and gets the season going, I think the players can live with that.”
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...ith-salary-cap

Looks like he's playing with fire a bit. Basically insinuating that if the lockout continues, they might have to go back on accepting a salary cap to begin with.

I for one wouldn't cry over a capless NHL. But that's very unlikely.

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10-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LeeIs View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...ith-salary-cap

Looks like he's playing with fire a bit. Basically insinuating that if the lockout continues, they might have to go back on accepting a salary cap to begin with.

I for one wouldn't cry over a capless NHL. But that's very unlikely.
Right now we have some decent prospects in the system and -- with the gloves off so to speak in terms of removing the cap, combined with the decent free agents coming up next year, we could be in a position to add top end elite talent that is not in the twilight of their career to fill the ranks.

Fantasy but it is nice to hope...

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