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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-05-2012, 10:03 AM
  #101
Fixed to Ruin
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If there is a deal for this season, i think that the few weeks between when the CBA is ratifed and the first regular season games will be awsome. There is be tons of offseason movement that will make HF crash over and over.

I think a deal gets done in early december and the regular season will begin on boxing day.

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10-05-2012, 11:20 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
I was obviously VERY wrong last year (before Fehr was brought in by the NHLPA) - someone voiced some concern about the soon to expire CBA and I kinda mocked them.

The last time around it was win or lose. Cap or no cap. There was no way to come out of that without one side being the clear loser and the other being the clear winner. The owners won. But now that the cap was in place, surely they can tweak whatever needs to be tweaked and there shouldn't be any worry about any kind of work stoppage.

Ooooh boy - was I wrong. Basically the minute NHLPA hired Fehr, I immediately became concerned.

This is a battle of egos - Fehr and Bettman, and neither wants to lose. What they fail to realize is that there are solutions out there where they can both win and lose - there's no need for a total victory for either side. Let the players keep their $1.87B, and freeze it there until that number gets to whatever the magic number is - 49-51%?

I don't know - with so much on the line, I don't understand why they are not just locked in a room and forced to come to some kind of agreement.

I voted canceled season.
Fehr has been around for ore than a year.
Fehr is not the problem, the players who chose to fire Paul Kelly (who was working pro-actively with the NHL to fix loopholes and get ready for formal negotiations, and had one of the closest working relationships with the league in NHL history, and has a reputation of being an extremely honest and open worker -who busted Eagleson FFS!!!) and replace him with Fehr (who didnt communicate at all with the league other than shutting down motions like league re-allignment).

As much as i think Fehr is a con-man, and is of the same ilk as Goodenow (Goodenow was in constant communication with Fehr in 1994 and 2004-05), its the players that ultimately made the choice to fire the esteemed Kelly and go in this direction.

If you havent noticed...players are quite dumb and it wouldnt surprise me if they still feel "bullied" into taking a deal (awww poor Iggy).

Then again. You would think that if the Union truly believes revenues will increase 7% that they would be running up to negotiate a few concessions and sign the NHL offer -which costs them about what the announcement yesterday cost them. If revenues dont increase at all the players would be sacrificing approx. just short of 2 paychecks this year for the corrections. Once those two paychecks are cancelled it looks really stupid on the players to sign a deal... but then again these are the guys playing for 70% less in germany and other leagues.


----- I vote Bettman uses replacement players and breaks the union. Or he takes a year impasse and uses it to re-organize the league into a central contracting business (league decides all values). The latter decision works the best for the league and would absolutely destroy the power of players and agents.

Above all the agents are to blame for all of this. The players should just negotiate on the NHL offer and play some NHL hockey but the agents control these dummies. The only ones not sacrificing anything...and that a win would truly help... are the agents and Fehr.
If I am Bettman i see Fehr's strike history and take this opportunity to completely destroy the PA; Re-organize the NHL, centrally command all contracts, get rid of the cap (since every contract is league negotiated) and now you can pay 40% or 35% of revs - just enough to beat external competition like the crippled KHL.
Players should be negotiating... it just makes re-organization that much easier that they have avoided proper negotiation.


Last edited by oilinblood: 10-05-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
10-06-2012, 03:49 AM
  #103
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I don't even come on the boards very much anymore... basically kinda disappointed now that I'm back in Canada and there's no hockey to watch.

Early on this summer I was pretty pessimistic and figured they'd miss at least half a season with a lesser chance they'd miss the whole year... and then as the summer (non)-negotiations went on, I could see my initial pessimistic feelings were overly optimistic. High chance they miss the entire year BUT if both sides pull their heads out of their collective ***** and actually give a **** about the fans and the game itself... there's still some small hope that some portion of the season may be salvaged. Certainly not holding my breath though and both sides have shown me they have very little regard and concern for the game itself and the fans that fill their wallets.

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Old
10-06-2012, 10:19 AM
  #104
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Sounds like the pressure has shifted to the owners. The pressure is coming from the US television networks. Their deal is a graduated deal that could blow up in their face if they're not careful. The networks are pissed and they're putting on the pressure. Good news!

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10-06-2012, 01:32 PM
  #105
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Talks are expected to come in the coming weeks.

This was unheard of in the last NHL lockout. I don't understand the huge pessimism that there will be a full-season lockout. It's Day 21 of the lockout and both sides have been kept in contact. Not like 2004 where the PA and the league had a relationship so toxic that they each wanted to bite their heads off.

I'm optimistic a deal will be done within the next month.

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Old
10-06-2012, 02:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JSC View Post
I don't think it goes past November, to be honest. In 04-05, it was whether or not to implement a cap. This lockout is just trying to agree on a number. There's no reason for half the season to be lost.
I agree with you 110%.

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10-06-2012, 03:04 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Talks are expected to come in the coming weeks.

This was unheard of in the last NHL lockout. I don't understand the huge pessimism that there will be a full-season lockout. It's Day 21 of the lockout and both sides have been kept in contact. Not like 2004 where the PA and the league had a relationship so toxic that they each wanted to bite their heads off.

I'm optimistic a deal will be done within the next month.
From what I've heard, they're only discussing the small things...maybe this will lead to bigger things? I don't know, but Bettman and Fehr seem like ego-maniacs.

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10-06-2012, 04:32 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge for Nuge View Post
From what I've heard, they're only discussing the small things...maybe this will lead to bigger things? I don't know, but Bettman and Fehr seem like ego-maniacs.
Don't get me wrong, they're ego-maniacs. But at the same time, I find this lockout isn't as toxic or full of negativity compared to last lockout, or maybe its just me.

Bob Goodenow seemed more like an ego-maniac. I think I remembered Ed Snider (flyers owner) saying he would choke him to death if he was in his sight. That's how bad it was last time.

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10-06-2012, 05:02 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilChuck View Post
Sounds like the pressure has shifted to the owners. The pressure is coming from the US television networks. Their deal is a graduated deal that could blow up in their face if they're not careful. The networks are pissed and they're putting on the pressure. Good news!
i heard Shannan talking about that. i'm more optimist today than a few days ago. surely to god, the owners' hardline for an immediate salary rollback isn't worth losing the whole season, is it? all they have to do give up on that one item and they can avoid the unestimatable (not sure on that word) damage. i've said it before, if they gas the season, they will have gotten their last dollar from me. it would be a smart strategy by bettman to drop the immediate rollback, making a slower, more reasonable rollback seem like a concession/compromise.

i think the owners will move on their position before it is too late for at least a 50 game season.


Last edited by Up the Irons: 10-06-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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Old
10-06-2012, 05:42 PM
  #110
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Why do the owners have to move from their position though. The players havent negotiated since July when they made their first "offer" whereas since then the NHL has made concessions.

If the owners were willing to lockout to begin with NBC pressuring them probably isnt too big of a thing to deal with. I think the players all believe the winter classic is the deadline and if they can just last till December the league will buckle and not lose the winter classic.

So imo either the league starts serious concessions in December to be playing by January or they miss the winter classic and the players go holy **** they were supposed to cave by now according to the Fehr brothers.

If it goes past January the players union starts forming cracks, all those 3rd and 4th liners not good enough for European jobs will start losing the will to sit out while the stars make money in Europe.

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10-06-2012, 05:43 PM
  #111
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I also hate how all the players keep tweeting how they just wanna play and will negotiate during the season. Ok so sign a legally binding guarantee you wont strike during the playoffs, in other words putting money wear your mouth is or shut up and get negotiating

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Old
10-06-2012, 05:53 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
The Owners are going to win, make no mistake about it.

BUT.

I think the problem the whole time is defining HRR.

I just don't see the players budging this year. They have money on signed paper and the owners are trying to renege on their deals with the roll backs.

The players probably feel if they let it go now, and they let it go in 04' whats going to happen in next time the CBA expires, are the owners going to ask for more concessions?

I'm scared of the path this is heading, people joke about the KHL now, but the way things are heading in this league the KHL will be a force to be reckoned with. I see players going back overseas and get their "deserved money".
The players have nothing.

Each contract is contingent on an agreed upon CBA. The CBA envisioned has a maximum % the players will get.

If they actually believe what you obviously believe, they are listening to the wrong people.

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10-06-2012, 06:55 PM
  #113
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If guys like Jeremy Jacobs are in charge on the owners side, not a good thing.

I've heard Dolan, on the other hand, is pissed and wants the season to go.

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10-06-2012, 07:18 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM View Post
The players have nothing.

Each contract is contingent on an agreed upon CBA. The CBA envisioned has a maximum % the players will get.

If they actually believe what you obviously believe, they are listening to the wrong people.
Alright, I'll lower this down for you. Simple economics, the free market will dictate where these players go if the NHL continues its path.

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10-06-2012, 07:23 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Alright, I'll lower this down for you. Simple economics, the free market will dictate where these players go if the NHL continues its path.
And good luck to the players to try and get $5 million+ a season anywhere else.

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10-06-2012, 07:42 PM
  #116
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And good luck to the players to try and get $5 million+ a season anywhere else.
Well, yes but if you read my posts there was a time when NHL players didn't make that much money. Its naive to think that the NHL is somehow immune to other leagues.

So yes Oilernut at this point in time other leagues can't compete, but if the NHL continues to go down this path of just appeasing the owners then players are going to start playing in other leagues.

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10-07-2012, 12:08 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Alright, I'll lower this down for you. Simple economics, the free market will dictate where these players go if the NHL continues its path.
3.3 billion dollars.

Course, its like anything else. Perhaps at some point in time other leagues could out bid the NHL for talent.

That point is a long time away.

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10-07-2012, 12:29 AM
  #118
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i heard Shannan talking about that. i'm more optimist today than a few days ago. surely to god, the owners' hardline for an immediate salary rollback isn't worth losing the whole season, is it? all they have to do give up on that one item and they can avoid the unestimatable (not sure on that word) damage. i've said it before, if they gas the season, they will have gotten their last dollar from me. it would be a smart strategy by bettman to drop the immediate rollback, making a slower, more reasonable rollback seem like a concession/compromise.

i think the owners will move on their position before it is too late for at least a 50 game season.
You may be underestimating how many NHL teams lose money under the current system. For some owners a cancelled season is less of a financial loss than a 50 game season.

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10-07-2012, 12:58 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post
You may be underestimating how many NHL teams lose money under the current system. For some owners a cancelled season is less of a financial loss than a 50 game season.
well, that could be true. i still believe that the owners' current offer is not their final ne.

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10-07-2012, 01:00 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post
You may be underestimating how many NHL teams lose money under the current system. For some owners a cancelled season is less of a financial loss than a 50 game season.
Players are grasping at straws if they think the owners are interested in proceeding with the same CBA as they had the last 5 years.

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10-07-2012, 01:07 AM
  #121
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It seems each and every day, Don Fehr is saying something along the lines of: "The players are willing to play while we negotiate a new CBA, but the owners do not want that." I am sorry, but was it not last season when the owners offered to begin negotiating, only to be turned down by the NHLPA? Hypocrites.

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10-07-2012, 03:38 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auguste Escoffier View Post
It seems each and every day, Don Fehr is saying something along the lines of: "The players are willing to play while we negotiate a new CBA, but the owners do not want that." I am sorry, but was it not last season when the owners offered to begin negotiating, only to be turned down by the NHLPA? Hypocrites.
The players weren't the ones that locked out the owners.

This boils down to certain owners not being able to control themselves. The rest of the owners want to prevent that via a new CBA.

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10-07-2012, 03:39 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auguste Escoffier View Post
It seems each and every day, Don Fehr is saying something along the lines of: "The players are willing to play while we negotiate a new CBA, but the owners do not want that." I am sorry, but was it not last season when the owners offered to begin negotiating, only to be turned down by the NHLPA? Hypocrites.
Plus it was the players who originally vetoed the realignment plan

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10-07-2012, 03:52 AM
  #124
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august 18th 2013

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Old
10-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
The players weren't the ones that locked out the owners.

This boils down to certain owners not being able to control themselves. The rest of the owners want to prevent that via a new CBA.
Do the players really want the owners to control themselves.

The economic game is as much of the NHL picture as the on ice game.

What the players dont understand is how the game works. All they see is the part that is in their benefit.

Hold outs.
Tricky ways to circumvent the cap.
and etc.

Well, this is the other side of those coins. Im thinking, they dont like a dose of their own medicine.

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