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Fedor Tyutin

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Old
05-10-2006, 09:50 AM
  #76
True Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Nevertheless, without a healthy dose of patience, we will never find out nor build the so-called core I've been preaching. on these threads
Off course you need patience and no one is calling for him to be traded for Jason Allison. However, there ARE certain issues within Tyutin's game that can be discussed. I agree that eventually he will probably be a part of the core, but how big of a part is up to him.

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05-10-2006, 10:14 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 94now
Yes, Tutin had Lundquist that was before injury no worse than Richter, but there's no comparison between Beukaboom and Kasparatis. In fact, Jeff should have had half if not more of Brian's Norrises.
I've gotta tell ya that is awfully hard to take your opinion seriously if you believe that Beukeboom even approached Leetch in talent and accomplishment.

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05-10-2006, 12:52 PM
  #78
94now
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Originally Posted by True Blue
if his play is spectacular to you, then greatness must be attained very easily.
The little difference between an AVERGE and GREAT is the property of a good league. NHL is the best league on Earth, FYI. The hole carrer, however, may not last long enough to get form spectacular to great for most.

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Originally Posted by True Blue
I would say that Leetch's 85 points in his first 85 games are a pretty significant reflection. Especially when compared to what Toots has put out in his first 80+ games.
I wouldn't. For the following reasons:

1)Brian got on very good offensive team. Toots played on the team with one scoring line. He rarely share the ice with that line being backup for the rest quite mediocre group (except Prucha). There's little chance to produce for offensive D if he's busy clearing the zone most of the time while seing true guns only on PP.
2) It was "run and gun" era. Once it ended and trap came both Leetch and Zubov stats went south. Toots still learns how to beat the trap, while those guys had never needed to do it to produce thier rookie stats..

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Not true. His consistency issues have been talked about all year.
Could be. All I resent is the suggestion that he may be a bust.


Last edited by 94now: 05-10-2006 at 01:05 PM.
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Old
05-10-2006, 12:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chosen
I've gotta tell ya that is awfully hard to take your opinion seriously if you believe that Beukeboom even approached Leetch in talent and accomplishment.
Same here. Leetch did nothing after Beuks premature retirement.

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05-10-2006, 01:08 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now
The little difference between an AVERGE and GREAT is a property of good league. NHL is the best league on Earth, FYI. The hole carrer, however, may not last long enough to get form spectacular to great for most.
When something is spectacular, it borders on greatness. That has not been a way to characterize Tyutin's play. Phaneuf's? Yes. Crosby's? Yes. Ovechkin's? Yes. Even Henke's. Not Fedor's.
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I wouldn't. For the following reasons:

1)Brian got on very good offensive team. Toots played on the team with one scoring line. He rarely share the ice with that line being backup for the rest quite mediocre group (except Prucha). There's little chance to produce for offensive D if he's busy clearing the zone most of the time while seing true guns only on PP.
2) It was "run and gun" era. Once it ended and trap came both Leetch and Zubov stats went south. Toots still learns how to beat the trap, while those guys had never needed to do it to produce thier rookie stats..
You wouldn't say that Leetch's 85 points in his first 85 games are much more of an indication than Tyutin's 32 points in 102 games? Come on. No amount of "wide-open, run and gun, non-trap hockey" is nearly enough of an argument to bride such a wide gap. Tyutin DID share the ice with a 30 goal scorer and a 20+ goal scorer. Maybe if he would hit the net every once in a blue moon when on the PP, he would have had more points. Tyutin could have played in the nuclear offensive era of the 80's and that is not nearly enough to make up the 72 points that he would need to be able to be compared to Leetch.
Quote:
All I resent is the suggestion that he may be a bust.
Saying that he has consistency issues is not at all calling him a bust. It is just what it is. A statement that brings forth his biggest problem that, if not overcome, will prevent him from being an upper echelon of future defensemen. Granted some of the posters may go overboard and call him a bust, but you would have to look long and hard to see the veterans around here use that term when describing him.

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05-10-2006, 01:15 PM
  #81
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I cannot believe...

that anyone would even suggest to compare Leetch (at 22 or 23) to Tyutin. I don't think there's nearly any comparison, even when comparing at the same age. As for the era...not sure what sense that makes. Leetch was among the top 3 or 5 scoring defenseman in the year we're talking about. Toots isn't in the top 50, most likely. That's your comparison.

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05-10-2006, 01:23 PM
  #82
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Tyutin's a nice player. He's mistake prone but some of that should go away with time. He can play in all situations and do okay--at least as of now. I don't know if there is a lot more upside to him at this point. We shall see. Is he going to be a Number 1? Doubt it very seriously. He should fit in as a solid top 4. At his age--that's not a bad thing--it's just we have to keep that in perspective.

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05-10-2006, 01:37 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
Tyutin's a nice player. He's mistake prone but some of that should go away with time. He can play in all situations and do okay--at least as of now. I don't know if there is a lot more upside to him at this point. We shall see. Is he going to be a Number 1? Doubt it very seriously. He should fit in as a solid top 4. At his age--that's not a bad thing--it's just we have to keep that in perspective.
I agree, unfortunatly I think he's been a bit oversold around here and so people are expecting something they aren't going to get from him. He's a nice player, could become a good NHL'er but I think someone who is waiting for him to do something remarkable or amazing might be in for a let down.

Talent isn't the issue with Tyutin, I just don't believe he will ever put it ALL together. That doens't mean he is garbage and won't have a nice career, but I just don't think the results are ever going to match the talent.

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05-10-2006, 03:00 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I don't think there's nearly any comparison, even when comparing at the same age. As for the era...not sure what sense that makes. Leetch was among the top 3 or 5 scoring defenseman in the year we're talking about. Toots isn't in the top 50, most likely. That's your comparison.
Neither do I. The comparison came about after my attempt to defend my statement that Tyutin is "one of the best thing happened to Rangers in decades" since there was no one between him and Leetch from the farm. The word "spectacular' came under fire as well. I didn't see the other way to defend the player who is not only talented but also is disciplined and obedient to coaches, "keeps it simple" when there's nothing simple in offensive D role and willing to sacrifice his stats for the team sake.

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05-10-2006, 03:11 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now
Neither do I. The comparison came about after my attempt to defend my statement that Tyutin is "one of the best thing happened to Rangers in decades" since there was no one between him and Leetch from the farm. The word "spectacular' came under fire as well. I didn't see the other way to defend the player who is not only talented but also is disciplined and obedient to coaches, "keeps it simple" when there's nothing simple in offensive D role and willing to sacrifice his stats for the team sake.
But that is just it. When you use the term "spectacular", it brings to mind images of Phaneuf or Crosby. When you say that he is the "best thing to have happened to the Rangers in decades", that implies at least 20 years. Within those 20 years, players like Amonte, Zubov, Kovalev & Weight have been rookies here. Much as I like Toots, he just does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as them. At least not right now.
He does not have the points of a Zubov because he has "sacrificed" his stats for the team's sake. He does not have them becuase he is simply not as good as Zubov was at a similar point in his career.

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05-10-2006, 03:50 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now
Same here. Leetch did nothing after Beuks premature retirement.
You've convinced me.

Beukeboom was better than Leetch.

Strudwick is far better than Lidstrom.

Orr couldn't carry Bruce Driver's skates.

One question I've been wondering about. Are you Russian?

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05-10-2006, 04:17 PM
  #87
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I understand 94...

although Norstrom and Zubov did come between Leetch and now and both are a good deal better than Tyutin, even at that age. Of course only Zubov realized that with the Rangers.

As for Leetch not being anything prior to Beuk's premature retirement...Leetch actually spent a couple seasons not being Beuk's defense pair. Beuk lost a step (or a few) a couple seasons before his retirement. I cannot remember the timeline, but Leetch's best 'defensive' season was one in which he was -7 and paired with Ulfie. -7 doesn't sound great, but if you saw his defensive play (as in leading the league in blocked shots), you'd say that minus was the Rangers inability to score at even strength and not Leetch's ability.

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05-10-2006, 05:27 PM
  #88
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I've said it for a while...he's overrated and will be nothing more than a 2nd pairing D. Adam Foote, Mattias Ohlund...you think he'll ever be close to them? Not a chance in hell.

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05-10-2006, 05:48 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
As for Leetch not being anything prior to Beuk's premature retirement...
Never sad anything like that, mister-twister

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05-10-2006, 06:07 PM
  #90
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I can't believe that some posters here are comparing Toots to Leetchie. It's ridiculous!!! Leetch was an All-Star at that age, with clear indications of a Hall of Fame career. What do we have with Tyutin??? A unspectacular rookie defenseman who is decent defensively and tentative offensively. Can we please stop comparing Leetch to Tyutin?! It's preposterous!

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05-10-2006, 06:12 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
But that is just it. When you use the term "spectacular", it brings to mind images of Phaneuf or Crosby. When you say that he is the "best thing to have happened to the Rangers in decades", that implies at least 20 years. Within those 20 years, players like Amonte, Zubov, Kovalev & Weight have been rookies here. Much as I like Toots, he just does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as them. At least not right now.
He does not have the points of a Zubov because he has "sacrificed" his stats for the team's sake. He does not have them becuase he is simply not as good as Zubov was at a similar point in his career.
I see. Although you point is well taken, I disagree. I did not bring Zubov up because I think Toots will exceed Zubov. He has all ingredients for that. He has larger frame, he is no worse as a skater, he is agile and quick. He is smart with good rink vision. It seems to me his only problem is that he is a shy small town boy. That can be worked out.

One more point in his defense. Zubov came from Red Army club. Leetch came from Boston College. Fedor came from GKW (God Knows Where) in hockey terms. He may need more coaching to polish his abilities.

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05-10-2006, 06:16 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemchinov13
I can't believe that some posters here are comparing Toots to Leetchie. It's ridiculous!!! Leetch was an All-Star at that age, with clear indications of a Hall of Fame career. What do we have with Tyutin??? A unspectacular rookie defenseman who is decent defensively and tentative offensively. Can we please stop comparing Leetch to Tyutin?! It's preposterous!
I'm a big believer in Fedor Tyutin's talents and potential level, but c'mon; Brian Leetch is on another level called 'Elite' or 'Hall of Famer'. Please stop the comparisions; you're just making Tyutin look bad and not appreciating him for the player he is and can be.

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05-10-2006, 06:26 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftyutin51
I'm a big believer in Fedor Tyutin's talents and potential level, but c'mon; Brian Leetch is on another level called 'Elite' or 'Hall of Famer'. Please stop the comparisions; you're just making Tyutin look bad and not appreciating him for the player he is and can be.
Where do you get all of this? No one puts Tyutin on the same level as Leetch. The argument initialy was there is no one in between them coming from the farm. The point was made that sertain adjustment must be made given difference in time, "run ad gun" vs trap, etc. IMO, Fedor will be an ELITE NHL D-man.

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05-10-2006, 06:40 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now
Where do you get all of this? No one puts Tyutin on the same level as Leetch. The argument initialy was there is no one in between them coming from the farm. The point was made that sertain adjustment must be made given difference in time, "run ad gun" vs trap, etc. IMO, Fedor will be an ELITE NHL D-man.
I wasn't looking for a invitation to join your debate with whoever you were debating with, a couple of posts up. I was simply giving my opinion, which happens to be similar to Nemchinov13. But atleast all you have are good feelings for Tyutin.

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