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Old
10-06-2012, 12:55 AM
  #101
usiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Well being on for all three goals isn't very good, but I see your point...
Would need to see the goals..goalie or other gaffs by the players on the ice would change things. Never like to see the -3 but hard to chime in if FF wasn't the cause of a minus.

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10-06-2012, 02:00 AM
  #102
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Rissling with 17 pim in a 5-4 loss and -1 ......hope this kid can develop....he's one big mean defensman

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10-06-2012, 06:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Would need to see the goals..goalie or other gaffs by the players on the ice would change things. Never like to see the -3 but hard to chime in if FF wasn't the cause of a minus.
I didn't really pay much attention to the game as I was busy playing Skyrim but Djurgårdens 2nd goal was a superb slapshot from Pontus Åbertg and on their 3rd goal Joakim Ryno dumped the puck straight up the neutral zone on a shift change which pretty much led to a 3 on 2. Can't say he could've done much on any of those goals. Missed the first one.

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10-06-2012, 07:59 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
I didn't really pay much attention to the game as I was busy playing Skyrim but Djurgårdens 2nd goal was a superb slapshot from Pontus Åbertg and on their 3rd goal Joakim Ryno dumped the puck straight up the neutral zone on a shift change which pretty much led to a 3 on 2. Can't say he could've done much on any of those goals. Missed the first one.
First goal was a massive slapper

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10-06-2012, 08:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Tappi Puckinen View Post
First goal was a massive slapper
Highlights here:

http://www.hockeyallsvenskan.se/nyheter/hwxbqtrhkt

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Old
10-06-2012, 10:31 AM
  #106
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Yeah, no need to hang onto the -3. He's an offensive threat anyways.

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10-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #107
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OHL-Plymouth

Carrick w/ 1a & E in a win
Wilson w/ 2a & +2 in a win

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10-06-2012, 10:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
So Forsberg is sitting right now at 10 points in 9 games. In the Allsvenskan and the SEL, no other U19 player has more than 2 points. This is awesome.
I don't think you can directly compare players in the two leagues. It's nice that Forsberg is getting all these points, but consider that he's on one of the best teams in Sweden's SECOND league.

Forsberg plays against weaker competition AND also gets much more ice time than SEL juniors.

Consider that through the first 10 SEL games, only 8 juniors (of the 28 on SEL rosters) have averaged more than 10 min/game. They're playing that limited ice time against better players than those in Allsvenskan.

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Old
10-06-2012, 10:35 PM
  #109
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Old
10-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by marchbrown View Post
I don't think you can directly compare players in the two leagues. It's nice that Forsberg is getting all these points, but consider that he's on one of the best teams in Sweden's SECOND league.

Forsberg plays against weaker competition AND also gets much more ice time than SEL juniors.

Consider that through the first 10 SEL games, only 8 juniors (of the 28 on SEL rosters) have averaged more than 10 min/game. They're playing that limited ice time against better players than those in Allsvenskan.
Allsvenskan is not exactly a much worse league. There are teams in the league (possibly Leksands) that are good enough to be SEL teams, but can't be because they just miss out. The two leagues are connected in that teams move between the leagues depending on how good they are. So being a top team in the Allsvenskan isn't something to just push away.

Plus, Forsberg played very well against top SEL teams in Pre-Season.

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10-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Allsvenskan is not exactly a much worse league. There are teams in the league (possibly Leksands) that are good enough to be SEL teams, but can't be because they just miss out. The two leagues are connected in that teams move between the leagues depending on how good they are. So being a top team in the Allsvenskan isn't something to just push away.

Plus, Forsberg played very well against top SEL teams in Pre-Season.
Leksands has been trying for years to play its way back to the SEL, but can't manage to because it can't beat the worst teams in the SEL, whichever ones they may be in any year. Maybe next spring will be the one in which Leksands manages to move up, but right now they're stuck playing in HA.

As a result, Forsberg plays most games against teams that are not as good as the worst SEL teams. If he gets a lot of ice time, and especially power play time, he has much more opportunity to score than any junior on an SEL team.

Pre-season? What do preseason games, with all their roster shuffling and try-outs for both teams, show in any league? I don't know about the rest of Leksand's pre-season, but Brynas completely shut down Forsberg (0 pts) and Leksands (0-5) in their preseason game.

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10-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchbrown View Post
I don't think you can directly compare players in the two leagues. It's nice that Forsberg is getting all these points, but consider that he's on one of the best teams in Sweden's SECOND league.

Forsberg plays against weaker competition AND also gets much more ice time than SEL juniors.

Consider that through the first 10 SEL games, only 8 juniors (of the 28 on SEL rosters) have averaged more than 10 min/game. They're playing that limited ice time against better players than those in Allsvenskan.
Come on, it's a 10 to 2 advantage. There's no way he's got it 5 times easier than someone in the SEL.

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Old
10-07-2012, 05:43 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Come on, it's a 10 to 2 advantage. There's no way he's got it 5 times easier than someone in the SEL.
I wouldn't know how to calculate that exactly but how many of his points are PP points? There probably isn't a kid his age in the SEL getting any PP time so subtract all of those. How many even strength minutes is he getting and on what line is he playing? He's probably getting a decent amount more ES minutes than his SEL peers and he is also likely playing on a scoring line while they aren't. And now make some kind of adjustment for the overall lower standard of play in his league compared to the SEL.

So how do his numbers compare now? I have no idea...

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10-07-2012, 08:16 PM
  #114
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Anze Kopitar has 8 points in 6 games in HockeyAllvenskan right now. Patrik Berglund has 4 points in 6 games. I'd say Forsberg (who's 5th in the league in goals) is doing pretty well.

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10-08-2012, 08:42 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Anze Kopitar has 8 points in 6 games in HockeyAllvenskan right now. Patrik Berglund has 4 points in 6 games. I'd say Forsberg (who's 5th in the league in goals) is doing pretty well.
So how are the NHL guys playing in the SEL doing?

So a very good NHL player with no training camp and likely not exactly in the best frame of mind to play top notch hockey can walk in off the street and put up 8 points in 6 games?

I agree Forsberg appears to be doing well. I just don't know how to compare that to the performance of his peers currently playing in the SEL.

I apologize for not being as awed by his second division numbers as many others...

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10-08-2012, 09:32 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So how are the NHL guys playing in the SEL doing?

So a very good NHL player with no training camp and likely not exactly in the best frame of mind to play top notch hockey can walk in off the street and put up 8 points in 6 games?

I agree Forsberg appears to be doing well. I just don't know how to compare that to the performance of his peers currently playing in the SEL.

I apologize for not being as awed by his second division numbers as many others...
Alex Steen is the only NHL player in the SEL right now, he has 10 points in 6 games. Matt Duchene will soon join Frölunda. Landeskog, Matt Read and Mikael Backlund will soon join their teams in Allsvenskan. It will be interesting to see how Forsberg compares to those guys but the style of hockey and the rink size is of course different from the NHL so nr's might not tell the whole story.

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Old
10-08-2012, 02:48 PM
  #117
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NCAA Exhibition (yesterday)

Riley Barber w/ 3 primary assists in a 6-2 win over Western Ontario

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10-09-2012, 12:41 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I wouldn't know how to calculate that exactly but how many of his points are PP points? There probably isn't a kid his age in the SEL getting any PP time so subtract all of those. How many even strength minutes is he getting and on what line is he playing? He's probably getting a decent amount more ES minutes than his SEL peers and he is also likely playing on a scoring line while they aren't. And now make some kind of adjustment for the overall lower standard of play in his league compared to the SEL.

So how do his numbers compare now? I have no idea...
5 of Forsberg's 6 goals are power play goals, and 2 of his 4 assists are power play assists. Subtract power play opportunity and he has . . . 3 points.

http://stats.swehockey.se/ScheduleAn.../Schedule/3005
Power play goals are listed, but I needed to go through game results to count the assists.

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10-09-2012, 01:00 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchbrown View Post
5 of Forsberg's 6 goals are power play goals, and 2 of his 4 assists are power play assists. Subtract power play opportunity and he has . . . 3 points.

http://stats.swehockey.se/ScheduleAn.../Schedule/3005
Power play goals are listed, but I needed to go through game results to count the assists.
You're right. All those points don't count because he didn't earn that PP time.

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10-09-2012, 06:56 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
You're right. All those points don't count because he didn't earn that PP time.
If by earned you mean is afforded the opportunity because he plays in a lesser league than absolutely he earned that PP time.

But I very much hope he keeps it up, has a fantastic season, and helps get his team promoted to the SEL so he gets at least 1 season at the highest level in his home country before coming to North America.

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10-10-2012, 07:58 AM
  #121
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HockeyAllvenskan is not a development league, time still has to be earned. They didn't just hand those minutes to Forsberg, he beat out much older players to get them.

And isn't he coming to NA next year? So his team getting promoted to the SEL wouldn't impact that.

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10-10-2012, 02:51 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
HockeyAllvenskan is not a development league, time still has to be earned. They didn't just hand those minutes to Forsberg, he beat out much older players to get them.

And isn't he coming to NA next year? So his team getting promoted to the SEL wouldn't impact that.
I understand it is not a developmental league but the 2nd division is not the SEL. I know so many want to pretend that isn't the case but it is.

And whether he comes over next season or not I guess we will see but I'm not holding my breath...

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Old
10-10-2012, 02:56 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
If by earned you mean is afforded the opportunity because he plays in a lesser league than absolutely he earned that PP time.

But I very much hope he keeps it up, has a fantastic season, and helps get his team promoted to the SEL so he gets at least 1 season at the highest level in his home country before coming to North America.
I don't get it Millhaus, why the negativity? Forsberg is one of the unquestionably good things the Caps have going for them right now, who cares where he's playing as long as he's facing decent competition and developing?

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Old
10-10-2012, 03:37 PM
  #124
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OEL played in the Allsvenskan, also for Leksands, and he's well on his way to becoming one of the best all-around defensemen in the sport.

Forsberg's level of competition isn't a problem.

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10-10-2012, 03:59 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
I don't get it Millhaus, why the negativity? Forsberg is one of the unquestionably good things the Caps have going for them right now, who cares where he's playing as long as he's facing decent competition and developing?
So not being in complete awe of a player's numbers while not playing in his country's highest level is being negative? Then color me negative. How dare I point out that there isn't a single player his age in the SEL getting the prime ice time he is getting in the 2nd division. Oh the humanity...

I'm happy he is doing well. At his age it isn't his fault his team didn't get promoted after last season. I never said from a development standpoint long term where he was playing mattered at all, simply that IMO his numbers needed to be put in context because of where he was playing. If you don't agree and feel a goal or point in the 2nd division is the same as in the 1st then fine.

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