HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Kessel to the ducks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #26
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,302
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Not sure how, when Kessel has had a better career year, did better this year and only has a .07 less career point %, when he is not playing with Getzlaf and Perry.
Bobby Ryan also isn't getting time on the 1st PP unit, so it's easy to see his numbers going up. The same can not be said of Kessel.

As for this deal, Anaheim says no. Emphatically.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #27
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I wouldn't sat that. As a rental, a 2nd line centre, a good prospect , a 1st, and a throw in isn't too bad value. But Getzlaf likely re-signs with Anaheim, so there's no reason to do it for them.
A good 2nd line center, A prospect that is close to having bust attached to him.
A throw in that is a dime a dozen and the 1st.
There are many teams that would offer more value and less quanity for Getzlaf and take that chance on resigning him IMO.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 03:46 PM
  #28
Vankiller Whale
Propaganda Minister
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,219
vCash: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
A good 2nd line center, A prospect that is close to having bust attached to him.
A throw in that is a dime a dozen and the 1st.
There are many teams that would offer more value and less quanity for Getzlaf and take that chance on resigning him IMO.
Calling Kadri "almost a bust" is unfair. Also, I doubt any teams would give much more than that if Getzlaf was unwilling to re-sign with Anaheim.

As a Habs fan, would you offer Plekanec + 1st(roughly equivalent value) for a year of Getzlaf?

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 03:51 PM
  #29
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Calling Kadri "almost a bust" is unfair. Also, I doubt any teams would give much more than that if Getzlaf was unwilling to re-sign with Anaheim.

As a Habs fan, would you offer Plekanec + 1st(roughly equivalent value) for a year of Getzlaf?
I think i would take that chance.History has shown that in these types of trades the player has signed with their new team.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 04:44 PM
  #30
Gavy
Registered User
 
Gavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
Kessel has more value than Ryan. But we aren't getting Getzlaf for Franson, Kadri and a 1st

Gavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 04:45 PM
  #31
Vankiller Whale
Propaganda Minister
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,219
vCash: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Kessel has more value than Ryan. But we aren't getting Getzlaf for Franson, Kadri and a 1st
You forgot Grabovski.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 04:47 PM
  #32
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,244
vCash: 50
I think the value is roughly fair, but I think both teams would say no. I don't think the Ducks want to give up Getzlaf AND Ryan, and the Leafs would probably just rather try to get Getzlaf.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 04:55 PM
  #33
Leafs For Life*
Nothing
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
A good 2nd line center, A prospect that is close to having bust attached to him.
A throw in that is a dime a dozen and the 1st.
There are many teams that would offer more value and less quanity for Getzlaf and take that chance on resigning him IMO.
Love how Kadri is considered a bust. You know Ryan, yes the Ryan in this thread that some are saying=Kessel, well he was kept down for the most part until his 3rd or 4th season. Busted? No, only a 30 goal scorer. Maybe go a bit back to Spezza, he was brought up and down for his 3rd year since drafted, and then made it iirc. Then he was kept down in the A for lockout, and after came out shining. Kadri is a bust, because he is a Leaf

Leafs For Life* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 05:04 PM
  #34
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Bobby Ryan > Kessel. Kadri a bust. Whatever.

Anaheim finished with the exact same points as Toronto, yet their players with less points are gold, and Toronto's are garbage. Typical HF.

Kessel was by far and away the better player between him and Ryan last year. It wasn't even close.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 05:57 PM
  #35
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,302
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Bobby Ryan > Kessel. Kadri a bust. Whatever.

Anaheim finished with the exact same points as Toronto, yet their players with less points are gold, and Toronto's are garbage. Typical HF.

Kessel was by far and away the better player between him and Ryan last year. It wasn't even close.
Did it ever occur to you that it's because, you know, there are more seasons to look at than just the last one?

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 05:58 PM
  #36
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Love how Kadri is considered a bust. You know Ryan, yes the Ryan in this thread that some are saying=Kessel, well he was kept down for the most part until his 3rd or 4th season. Busted? No, only a 30 goal scorer. Maybe go a bit back to Spezza, he was brought up and down for his 3rd year since drafted, and then made it iirc. Then he was kept down in the A for lockout, and after came out shining. Kadri is a bust, because he is a Leaf

Have a Reading comprehensive problem?
Never said he is considered a bust just that that he is close to having bust attached to him.
Some of you Leaf fans seem to have a paranoia issue.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:02 PM
  #37
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Did it ever occur to you that it's because, you know, there are more seasons to look at than just the last one?
Really? Because Kessel doesn't score 30+ annually?

Did it ever occur to you that last year counts a lot more than 3 years ago?

Kessel was 6th in the league in scoring -- Ryan 64th. did it ever occur to you that that's a wide margin?

Ryan Getzlaf had 11 goals last year -- Dion Phaneuf had 12 -- in an off year.

Only on HF do Leaf players get thrown under the bus for one bad month. Yet opposing players relive past glory of 3-4 years ago.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:12 PM
  #38
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Really? Because Kessel doesn't score 30+ annually?

Did it ever occur to you that last year counts a lot more than 3 years ago?

Kessel was 6th in the league in scoring -- Ryan 64th. did it ever occur to you that that's a wide margin?

Ryan Getzlaf had 11 goals last year -- Dion Phaneuf had 12 -- in an off year.

Only on HF do Leaf players get thrown under the bus for one bad month. Yet opposing players relive past glory of 3-4 years ago.
OV 65 pts last season ,Kessels 82 pts last season.So going by your assumption
Kessels is now > OV because what ever OV. accomplished in past seasons doesn't matter.
As for the last paragraph the Paranoia continues.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:16 PM
  #39
re5piration
'67 til
 
re5piration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,432
vCash: 500
The Ducks would be stupid to deal Getzlaf if they have plans of resigning him, but let's not act like the Leafs are giving up absolute crap for a pending free agent. Grabo+Kadri+1st is a major overpayment, especially if the lockout lasts the whole season.

re5piration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #40
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post



Ryan Getzlaf had 11 goals last year -- Dion Phaneuf had 12 -- in an off year.
.
If you look @ Getzlaf's #s you'll notice it was an irregularity (off year).

Phaneuf exceeded his output from the last 2 seasons.

Flyerfan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:26 PM
  #41
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,302
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Really? Because Kessel doesn't score 30+ annually?

Did it ever occur to you that last year counts a lot more than 3 years ago?

Kessel was 6th in the league in scoring -- Ryan 64th. did it ever occur to you that that's a wide margin?

Ryan Getzlaf had 11 goals last year -- Dion Phaneuf had 12 -- in an off year.

Only on HF do Leaf players get thrown under the bus for one bad month. Yet opposing players relive past glory of 3-4 years ago.
But Kessel doesn't score 80 points annually.

Yes, Kessel had a career year. Ryan had an off year. How were they years before that?

So? He also only had 57 points, and by every definition it was a pretty poor year from Getzlaf.

The only reason the last year is more important than the last three years is because Kessel had a great year. Three years is a significantly greater sample size than one. Last year might have more significance in terms of short-term contributions, but when comparing two players you look at the entire picture. A player can have a worse season, and still be considered the better player because of the three or four years prior.

To give you some perspective:

Kessel just had his best year, with 82 points in 82 games. 1.0 points per game.

Ryan Getzlaf has had four years where he produced at a higher level, with 1.06 in 2007-2008, 1.12 in 2008-2009, 1.05 in 2009-2010, and 1.13 in 2010-2011.

With your logic, Kessel's one great year elevates him above Getzlaf's poor one, just because it was the most recent year. That's absurd.


Last edited by Sojourn: 10-08-2012 at 06:49 PM.
Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:27 PM
  #42
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,302
vCash: 50
I don't consider Kadri a bust, as every player develops at their own pace, but he definitely needs to start showing something at the NHL level.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:46 PM
  #43
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I don't consider Kadri a bust, as every player develops at their own pace, but he definitely needs to start showing something at the NHL level.
Maybe Carlyle will give him a chance to actually play in the NHL. That's when he can be judged as to whether he's a bust or was worth being picked in the 1st round.

Flyerfan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 06:53 PM
  #44
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,302
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
Maybe Carlyle will give him a chance to actually play in the NHL. That's when he can be judged as to whether he's a bust or was worth being picked in the 1st round.
I agree. Really, what a player does prior to the NHL is fairly meaningless, once they're in the NHL.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 07:06 PM
  #45
Gliff
Wild Bill
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,271
vCash: 500
We should just switch rosters. Since we would also lose Perry if we did this. Lose RPG and get Kessel. Sounds like every Leafs-Ducks proposal.

Gliff is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 07:22 PM
  #46
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
It's amusing to read the "Kessel scored 80+, Ryan scored 65" posts.

Maybe people need to realize the scoring differences between the conferences average about 5-15 points per core player. On a team like Anaheim or Toronto, that's going to be towards the high end because their scoring is concentrated in a few players. If they were reversed, Ryan would probably score 75-80 points while Kessel is in the 65 point range.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 08:05 PM
  #47
Gavy
Registered User
 
Gavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
It's amusing to read the "Kessel scored 80+, Ryan scored 65" posts.

Maybe people need to realize the scoring differences between the conferences average about 5-15 points per core player. On a team like Anaheim or Toronto, that's going to be towards the high end because their scoring is concentrated in a few players. If they were reversed, Ryan would probably score 75-80 points while Kessel is in the 65 point range.
Kessel also had a 3rd line center to play with.

Gavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 08:15 PM
  #48
Leafs For Life*
Nothing
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
It's amusing to read the "Kessel scored 80+, Ryan scored 65" posts.

Maybe people need to realize the scoring differences between the conferences average about 5-15 points per core player. On a team like Anaheim or Toronto, that's going to be towards the high end because their scoring is concentrated in a few players. If they were reversed, Ryan would probably score 75-80 points while Kessel is in the 65 point range.
And with it only being the avg between conf., not highest, it would be 70 and 75.. and then add in Kessel playing with Perry+Getzlaf, and Ryan not, well.. take a hint.

Leafs For Life* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 08:17 PM
  #49
Gliff
Wild Bill
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Kessel also had a 3rd line center to play with.
Funny because Ryan played on the 3rd line 1/3 of the year.

Gliff is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2012, 08:33 PM
  #50
Leafs For Life*
Nothing
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Not true, Ryan does play with Getzlaf and Perry. He has also played a significant amount of time with Selanne and Koivu.

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

Last season, Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne have had a hand in ~61% of Ryan's goals (~59% overall in last 2 seasons).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Funny because Ryan played on the 3rd line 1/3 of the year.
Look above. Played on 1st most, then 2nd 2nd-most.

Leafs For Life* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.