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Old
10-09-2012, 12:27 AM
  #101
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Aliu still intrigues me as a prospect. But he's getting up there. Otherwise I don't see anything from Calgary that'd be appealing.
Just threw CGY out as an example of a team weak down the middle who could use his offensive skills as they should be used.

Zero interest in Aliu for me, he is waaay waaay too much of a head case. Thrown off of the Chicago Wolves in 10-11 due to attitude problems, ended up bouncing to ECHL then loaned to Peoria where despite 5g, 9pts in 12gp to end the year he was a healthy scratch in playoffs for attitude reasons. When the Thrashers moved WPG wanted him nowhere near any of their prospects, sending him to ECHL without even attending camp with St. John's, eventually got rid of him to Austria to get him off even their ECHL team. Let Abbottsford take him for nothing on loan, eventually dealt him to CGY for a player they had no use for (Negrin) just to get him out of the system. Basically thrown off 4 minor league teams in the last two years. No interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Kings don't have to trade Loktionov (or Bernier) just because that is what they desire. They will still be RFAs when their contracts expire. Hold onto them until the right deal comes along.
For Loktionov, not sure if his value will increase anymore than what it is right now. Has proven all he needs to in AHL (clearly an elite playmaker at that level), and after last year proved he can handle a full season staying healthy in pro hockey. Unlikely to find a spot in LA where he will prove he can be scorer at the NHL level.

A 2nd round pick + mid level prospect is probably more than fair value, I'd be happy with that return. So long as Kings don't let him walk for nothing (ie Moulson) or pay to get rid of him (ie Purcell + 2nd for Halpern ).

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10-09-2012, 08:18 AM
  #102
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Aliu is a headcase but still managed to put up 2 goals and an assist in 3 NHL games last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Just threw CGY out as an example of a team weak down the middle who could use his offensive skills as they should be used.

Zero interest in Aliu for me, he is waaay waaay too much of a head case. Thrown off of the Chicago Wolves in 10-11 due to attitude problems, ended up bouncing to ECHL then loaned to Peoria where despite 5g, 9pts in 12gp to end the year he was a healthy scratch in playoffs for attitude reasons. When the Thrashers moved WPG wanted him nowhere near any of their prospects, sending him to ECHL without even attending camp with St. John's, eventually got rid of him to Austria to get him off even their ECHL team. Let Abbottsford take him for nothing on loan, eventually dealt him to CGY for a player they had no use for (Negrin) just to get him out of the system. Basically thrown off 4 minor league teams in the last two years. No interest.



For Loktionov, not sure if his value will increase anymore than what it is right now. Has proven all he needs to in AHL (clearly an elite playmaker at that level), and after last year proved he can handle a full season staying healthy in pro hockey. Unlikely to find a spot in LA where he will prove he can be scorer at the NHL level.

A 2nd round pick + mid level prospect is probably more than fair value, I'd be happy with that return. So long as Kings don't let him walk for nothing (ie Moulson) or pay to get rid of him (ie Purcell + 2nd for Halpern ).

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10-09-2012, 10:42 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Aliu is a headcase but still managed to put up 2 goals and an assist in 3 NHL games last season.
Would you really want a nutjob like Aliu around potential powderkegs like Richards/Carter, and Penner? This team was/is successful because it's the perfect blend of talent and chemistry. Adding Aliu would be like adding Avery and it would have serious effects on the environment in the room.

Quote:
There was an Igor Larionov quote from a Russian reporter for NHL.com that Loktionov will ask for a trade once the lockout is finished.
Wouldn't the fact that he is here in Manchester contradict this report? I mean if you are going to request a trade why stick around playing for the team you don't want to play for, in a system that you struggle in, when you have an offer to play in Russia? Just seems like backwards logic to me.


Last edited by tigermask48: 10-09-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old
10-09-2012, 11:59 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Would you really want a nutjob like Aliu around potential powderkegs like Richards/Carter, and Penner? This team was/is successful because it's the perfect blend of talent and chemistry. Adding Aliu would be like adding Avery and it would have serious effects on the environment in the room.
I don't buy that at all. I feel like the leadership on the Kings is at the point that they can put a kid like Aliu in his place. At the time the Kings had no one in a leadership role who was the type to put a guy like Avery in his place.

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10-10-2012, 07:19 AM
  #105
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I don't buy that at all. I feel like the leadership on the Kings is at the point that they can put a kid like Aliu in his place. At the time the Kings had no one in a leadership role who was the type to put a guy like Avery in his place.
Somewhat true about the Kings having leadership, but I still don't think it's worth the risk. You bring someone like that and you still potentially cause rifts in the room even after he is gone. Myabe Avery was a bad example, he just runs his dumb mouth and just doesn't know when not to. Aliu is one of those guys that just doesn't get it. He'll stay up until 3am partying the night before a game, he'll go out and get in fights at bars, and then get pissed none of his teammates where there to back him up... He just plain isn't a guy you want around your team. If you look at the history Richards and Carter have, the history Drew Doughty has, you should be able to see how bringing in a guy like Aliu could seriously destroy what the Kings have built.

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10-10-2012, 07:36 AM
  #106
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I don't think Aliu is this massive headcase, unless some trusted source has said otherwise. From what I gather he may have authority issues, but all he did was stand up to Downie against hazing when he was 16.

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10-10-2012, 08:19 AM
  #107
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I don't think Aliu is this massive headcase, unless some trusted source has said otherwise. From what I gather he may have authority issues, but all he did was stand up to Downie against hazing when he was 16.
I in no way fault him for the hazing incident one bit, and that's not where I'm getting the headcase claims from.

I'm speaking more to his getting suspended for "disciplinary reasons" the last two games of the year in Sudbury, and his inability to stay on a single team for a full year despite producing, his breaking his hand in a bar fight in 2010. I've heard stories from his time in Gwinnett during prospect camps and his stint there two years ago. I've heard stories from his time in Rockford. He's been loaned and traded all over the place since truning pro because no one wants to deal with him, and no one seems to be able to handle his behavior for very long. My labeling him a headcase has nothing to do with the hazing when he was 16 and everything to do with the fact that he doesn't care about anyone but himself, he can't keep himself ot of trouble and when you try to keep him in line, he spouts off and pouts.

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10-11-2012, 02:05 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Aliu is a headcase but still managed to put up 2 goals and an assist in 3 NHL games last season.
Flames fan visiting in peace.

Aliu's points were in no way indicative of his play. One was a lucky bounce off of him and the second was gift wrapped. His assist was a pretty nice one handed to him because he played with a 1st line player (Cammalleri).

What I will say is that he's got skill and he has the ability to play a 4th line agitator as long as he continues to progress. In the AHL, he's played a lot by Troy Ward and does a good job. The talk about him mentally aren't overblown, but seems to have calmed down. He has, and he openly states, that he's found his peace in Abbotsford and is extremely thankful that Feaster gave him a chance at redemption. From what I've seen of him in Abbotsford and with the Flames, he just looks like another agitator...no weird habits or anything. For the last 2 games of the season, he did exactly what I said before: He acted like a good agitator (and in general playing hard hitting Sutter hockey) and was rewarded (a bit excessively) for crashing the net.

On the other hand, he does have problems with consistency and self-control. Ward is a coach who'll play his best players, regardless of name or ranking. He willingly benches Irving for career AHLer Danny Taylor stretching into the Playoffs and has sent a player home for a month for conditioning. He has benched or made Aliu a healthy scratch a couple times, indicating that he's obviously no where Ward wants him to be all the time. Additionally, you can see Aliu is on the edge of exploding whenever he feels slighted. We Flames fans don't complain as we haven't had a player like that for a while, but for the Kings, you might have that type of role already filled in the AHL who can make that jump.

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Old
10-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #109
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The Monarchs have signed goaltender Peter Mannino and returned J.F. Berube to Ontario (ECHL).
http://manchestermonarchs.com/news.php?nid=4520

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10-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Monarchs have signed goaltender Peter Mannino and returned J.F. Berube to Ontario (ECHL).
http://manchestermonarchs.com/news.php?nid=4520
As big of a supporter of JF's as I am I think he is still a year away from AHL play and 2/3 years away from the NHL.

He has all of the skills needed to make it but he still has allot to learn before he can put it all together. When he is on he is really fun to watch but he has a hard time putting up a string of great games. We have the system in place to develop his game and a bit of patients on our part will do him a world of good so I am not worried about his not eventually matriculating.

It is going to take time though.

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10-11-2012, 04:08 PM
  #111
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I figure that rather than having Berube sit on the bench in Manchester, the Kings would prefer him getting regular starts in Ontario. Mannino being a career minor leaguer is used to riding the pine, so he'll have no qualms accepting the backup role behind Marty Jones.

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10-11-2012, 04:16 PM
  #112
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Ouch. Not a good sign Berube is spending two years in the ECHL, not the typical path of an NHL goalie. I guess Jones is our future if we deal Bernier...Chris Gibson has a long way to go.

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10-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Ouch. Not a good sign Berube is spending two years in the ECHL, not the typical path of an NHL goalie. I guess Jones is our future if we deal Bernier...Chris Gibson has a long way to go.
I don't think it's a knock on Berube, it is more of a preference to get him more starts. He's 21, Jones is 22, they probably wanted an older backup to Jones, and Mannino, who is 28, provides that.

Plus Berube only has one season of ECHL experience, and he only appeared in 37 games due to injuries. He needs to get some starts.

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10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #114
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Good call, I guess it's just the situation that the Kings have two goalies almost the same age like last year with Zatkoff and Jones.

But, on the flip side, how many NHL goalies have ECHL experience? Not many. Most go from juniors to the NHL or juniors to AHL to NHL.

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10-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I don't think it's a knock on Berube, it is more of a preference to get him more starts. He's 21, Jones is 22, they probably wanted an older backup to Jones, and Mannino, who is 28, provides that.

Plus Berube only has one season of ECHL experience, and he only appeared in 37 games due to injuries. He needs to get some starts.
Not to mention that even Hextal thinks that JF needs more time and starts before he moves up to the AHL. Ranford likes him a ton but like you said, BF is 21 and if it takes him four more years to make the NHL he will still be right in line with other solid goalies who made their jumps.

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10-11-2012, 04:45 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by kirant View Post
Flames fan visiting in peace.

Aliu's points were in no way indicative of his play. One was a lucky bounce off of him and the second was gift wrapped. His assist was a pretty nice one handed to him because he played with a 1st line player (Cammalleri).

What I will say is that he's got skill and he has the ability to play a 4th line agitator as long as he continues to progress. In the AHL, he's played a lot by Troy Ward and does a good job. The talk about him mentally aren't overblown, but seems to have calmed down. He has, and he openly states, that he's found his peace in Abbotsford and is extremely thankful that Feaster gave him a chance at redemption. From what I've seen of him in Abbotsford and with the Flames, he just looks like another agitator...no weird habits or anything. For the last 2 games of the season, he did exactly what I said before: He acted like a good agitator (and in general playing hard hitting Sutter hockey) and was rewarded (a bit excessively) for crashing the net.

On the other hand, he does have problems with consistency and self-control. Ward is a coach who'll play his best players, regardless of name or ranking. He willingly benches Irving for career AHLer Danny Taylor stretching into the Playoffs and has sent a player home for a month for conditioning. He has benched or made Aliu a healthy scratch a couple times, indicating that he's obviously no where Ward wants him to be all the time. Additionally, you can see Aliu is on the edge of exploding whenever he feels slighted. We Flames fans don't complain as we haven't had a player like that for a while, but for the Kings, you might have that type of role already filled in the AHL who can make that jump.
Heh, former LA Kings prospect..that also played in the NHL in the dark days...
He's a hard working guy and I could see how coaches like him.

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10-11-2012, 04:51 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Good call, I guess it's just the situation that the Kings have two goalies almost the same age like last year with Zatkoff and Jones.

But, on the flip side, how many NHL goalies have ECHL experience? Not many. Most go from juniors to the NHL or juniors to AHL to NHL.
Conn Smythe winner Jonathan Quick.

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10-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I don't think it's a knock on Berube, it is more of a preference to get him more starts. He's 21, Jones is 22, they probably wanted an older backup to Jones, and Mannino, who is 28, provides that.

Plus Berube only has one season of ECHL experience, and he only appeared in 37 games due to injuries. He needs to get some starts.
Problem is, Berube is NOT going to get as many starts as people here think. St. John's (WPG) just re-assigned Chris Carrozzi back to Ontario again, and last year Carrozzi badly outplayed Berube. At best Berube will be splitting games. I have no idea why WPG is not sending Carrozzi (their 5th string) to their ECHL affliate (Colorado), but it's likely going to hurt Berube.

2011-12
Name - GP - W - L - T - SVP - GAA - SO
Carrozzi - 29 - 17 - 6 - 4 - .922 - 2.27 - 3
Berube - 37 - 17 - 13 - 4 - .907 - 2.87 - 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Good call, I guess it's just the situation that the Kings have two goalies almost the same age like last year with Zatkoff and Jones.

But, on the flip side, how many NHL goalies have ECHL experience? Not many. Most go from juniors to the NHL or juniors to AHL to NHL.
While it would be concerning for a player to spend time in ECHL since very few make it to the NHL out of there, many goalies come out of the ECHL.

Goalies that played NHL last year (min 10 gp) and had ECHL experience.
Mike Smith (PHO)
Jonathan Quick (LAK)
Jaroslav Halak (STL)
Tim Thomas (BOS)
Johan Hedberg (NJD)
Thomas Greiss (SJS)
Allen York (CBS)
Devan Dubnyk (EDM)
Joey MacDonald (DET)
Jason Labarbera (PHO)
Curtis Sanford (KHL(CBS))
Dan Ellis (CAR(ANA))
Richard Bachman (DAL)
Martin Biron (NYR)
Michal Neuvirth (WSH)
Ben Scrivens (TOR)
James Reimer (TOR)
Al Montoya (WPG(NYI))
Alex Auld (OTT)

Only Biron, Auld and Montoya spent less than 5 games there. The rest it was 3/4 or more of a season down in the ECHL.

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Old
10-11-2012, 05:14 PM
  #119
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Lot of goalies have had stints in the ECHL. You can find a list of ECHL alumni that graduated to the NHL here: http://www.echl.com/alumni-s12397

To summarize, some of the current NHL goalies on there include:
Martin Biron
Devan Dubnyk
Dan Ellis
Thomas Greiss
Johan Hedberg
Braden Holtby
Anton Khudobin
Jason LaBarbera
Joey MacDonald
Al Montoya
Michal Neuvirth
Jonathan Quick
Jussi Rynnas
Curtis Sanford
Mike Smith
Tim Thomas
Tomas Vokoun

The ECHL is considered a good enough league to develop goalies. Berube may just be a career minor leaguer, but him getting starts at the 'AA' level isn't going to hurt him.

Whoops, I got beat to the list. But anyway, you get the idea.

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10-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #120
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Watching Manchester's first game of the seaon, they look like the pre-Sutter Kings. Loktionov and Nolan look good, but not so much the rest of the team. Nolan had a nice fight... didn't start out well, but looked like he tuned the guy up at the end.

**edit: Loktionov with a nice shorthander to tie the game

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10-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #121
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Andrei Loktionov single-handedly just took a crap on the Providence Bruins.

1-1 after two.

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10-12-2012, 07:37 PM
  #122
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That goal was nice.

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10-12-2012, 07:56 PM
  #123
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Andreoff puts the Monarchs up 2-1 on the PP.

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10-12-2012, 08:19 PM
  #124
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Vey makes it 3-1, he's looked very good tonight.

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10-12-2012, 08:26 PM
  #125
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That'll do it, Monarchs win 3-1.

Goals by Loktionov, Andreoff, and Vey in that order.

Monarchs played terribly the first half of the game, but picked it up late.

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