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The Lockout Thread UPD 1/6 - framework of new CBA agreed to

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Old
10-05-2012, 04:19 PM
  #26
Franchise13
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
What got me with Disney is that they used to go after "new" talent for their movies. Studio contract for five years or more at less than market to break in (50s and 60s). If the actor was successful they were stuck with the exclusivity and could usually expect to be used less. it was great in that they got a lot of new names and gave people a chance who would not have got the chance otherwise. But the scale and exclusivity was very extreme. They were actually splurging grabbing mid-level names for lead roles on one-off deals. They were also fairly predatory in their dealings with cartoonists, pretty much sweatshop type.
What I was referring to wasn't that necessarily, but it was related to their terms and contracts that are standard on Disney contracts/negotiating tactics. Not sure if what you say is still prevalent thankfully, or rep firms have wised up to their act. The leads in "Prom" weren't splurge type dollars, and that's the last I saw. Perfect instance of grabbing midlevel names, though both those leads only signed on for that movie iirc.

Disney locking up their "star" before possibly catapulting them with their movie @ pre movie price is not a terrible move on their part. Now obviously the way they handle the process changes the narrative, but hopefully the talent has taken the precaution of securing representation that guards against things that aren't in their best interest. Curious if the Mickey Mouse Club is when this practice started?

Not surprised about the cartoonist comment. A convo me and the Mrs. had with a few people at Disney's own Club 33 over the summer pretty much suggests that level of treatment throughout the company. But like I said, scorned people tend to play the part so who knows. I'm sure there are some positive stories people could share, but those don't tend to be shared.

Man, if the Sharks ever play again, we should have a drink. Can probably swap some interesting stories lol.

Back on topic: This lockout sucks for the Sharks especially. Why? Powerhouse NFL team, two great baseball stories going on while Sharks remain irrelevant news wise. Nice work NHL.


Last edited by Franchise13: 10-05-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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10-05-2012, 04:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
What I was referring to wasn't that necessarily, but it was related to their terms and contracts that are standard on Disney contracts/negotiating tactics. Not sure if what you say is still prevalent thankfully, or rep firms have wised up to their act. The leads in "Prom" weren't splurge type dollars, and that's the last I saw. Perfect instance of grabbing midlevel names, though both those leads only signed on for that movie iirc.

Not surprised about the cartoonist comment. A convo me and the Mrs. had with a few people at Disney's own Club 33 over the summer pretty much suggests that level of treatment throughout the company. But like I said, scorned people tend to play the part so who knows. I'm sure there are some positive stories people could share, but those don't tend to be shared.

Man, if the Sharks ever play again, we should have a drink. Can probably swap some interesting stories lol.

Back on topic: This lockout sucks for the Sharks especially. Why? Powerhouse NFL team, two great baseball stories going on while Sharks remain irrelevant news wise. Nice work NHL.

Hadn't thought of it from this standpoint but you're absolutely right, plus there's the obvious point that most of the core is on the wrong side of 30. This just blows all the way around.

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10-05-2012, 07:50 PM
  #28
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I blame the owners 100%.

If the players accepted what the owners are giving them, then the owners would know that they could do whatever the **** they wanted and lockout again once the new CBA was done.

I honest to god wonder if the NHl would be better off with monkeys running it.

Hmmm. We're short on money. Lets waste 100m+ on trying to save the phoenix coyotes, and then have the owners all chip in to cover the losses. Oh what? the player gave another player the dirtiest cheap shot ever, Fine him 2500$.

Theyre are 3 simple ways in my mind to fix the lockout and end it now.

1. Stop with this stupid % of HRR BS for the cap number, Make the cap frozzen at 70m until the 70m is equal to 50% of HRR. At that point, the cap will become 50% of league revenue again.

This makes the owners happy, in the sense that they save money long term. The players are happy as their current contracts arent effected, and since the cap is the same, nobody is waived to create space.

2. Get the Coyotes the **** outta the desert and move them to canada.
2.1 You get a massive relocation fee. This helps cover the money lost from the lockout.
2.2 Quebec city has the funds to field a competitive team, and will spend more then phoenix did. This means the players will get paid more money.
2.3 You dont waste that money on keeping the team in the desert.

3. Increase player fines. Instead of 2500. make the maximum 25000. Yes thats right, there is an extra 0. The money collected would be entered into the revenue sharing system. The players, while not wanting to pay 10x as much, agree to this because the increase in fines hopefully makes players think longer about that dirty cheap shot they decide to throw.

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10-06-2012, 12:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Hadn't thought of it from this standpoint but you're absolutely right, plus there's the obvious point that most of the core is on the wrong side of 30. This just blows all the way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
What I was referring to wasn't that necessarily, but it was related to their terms and contracts that are standard on Disney contracts/negotiating tactics. Not sure if what you say is still prevalent thankfully, or rep firms have wised up to their act. The leads in "Prom" weren't splurge type dollars, and that's the last I saw. Perfect instance of grabbing midlevel names, though both those leads only signed on for that movie iirc.

Disney locking up their "star" before possibly catapulting them with their movie @ pre movie price is not a terrible move on their part. Now obviously the way they handle the process changes the narrative, but hopefully the talent has taken the precaution of securing representation that guards against things that aren't in their best interest. Curious if the Mickey Mouse Club is when this practice started?

Not surprised about the cartoonist comment. A convo me and the Mrs. had with a few people at Disney's own Club 33 over the summer pretty much suggests that level of treatment throughout the company. But like I said, scorned people tend to play the part so who knows. I'm sure there are some positive stories people could share, but those don't tend to be shared.

Man, if the Sharks ever play again, we should have a drink. Can probably swap some interesting stories lol.

Back on topic: This lockout sucks for the Sharks especially. Why? Powerhouse NFL team, two great baseball stories going on while Sharks remain irrelevant news wise. Nice work NHL.
I had a similar thought the other day. If the lockout is an extended one, it could really hurt the Sharks when/if they come back.

People like us (people on the board) will probably always watch the Sharks. We'll probably still attend games and still buy merchandise. However, a decent chunk of revenue for the Sharks and the league is driven by the casual fan. The people who you know that all of a sudden like hockey because there is a team doing well.

I think one of the reasons the Sharks have seen such an increase in popularity is because when they came back the Niners, Raiders, A's and Giants were terrible and really continued to be terrible until about a couple of years ago for the Giants (last year for the Niners and this year for the A's).

If they come back after an extended break (a year), they will be coming back to an area with three good teams and one with a mega-stadium almost built.

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10-06-2012, 03:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
I blame the owners 100%.

If the players accepted what the owners are giving them, then the owners would know that they could do whatever the **** they wanted and lockout again once the new CBA was done.

I honest to god wonder if the NHl would be better off with monkeys running it.

Hmmm. We're short on money. Lets waste 100m+ on trying to save the phoenix coyotes, and then have the owners all chip in to cover the losses. Oh what? the player gave another player the dirtiest cheap shot ever, Fine him 2500$.

Theyre are 3 simple ways in my mind to fix the lockout and end it now.

1. Stop with this stupid % of HRR BS for the cap number, Make the cap frozzen at 70m until the 70m is equal to 50% of HRR. At that point, the cap will become 50% of league revenue again.

This makes the owners happy, in the sense that they save money long term. The players are happy as their current contracts arent effected, and since the cap is the same, nobody is waived to create space.

2. Get the Coyotes the **** outta the desert and move them to canada.
2.1 You get a massive relocation fee. This helps cover the money lost from the lockout.
2.2 Quebec city has the funds to field a competitive team, and will spend more then phoenix did. This means the players will get paid more money.
2.3 You dont waste that money on keeping the team in the desert.

3. Increase player fines. Instead of 2500. make the maximum 25000. Yes thats right, there is an extra 0. The money collected would be entered into the revenue sharing system. The players, while not wanting to pay 10x as much, agree to this because the increase in fines hopefully makes players think longer about that dirty cheap shot they decide to throw.
How bout they relocate the Coyotes to the heart of Phoenix? They're in Glendale, from what I've heard, a lot of people don't go because it's out of the way and takes 45 minutes to get there. Sure there are season ticket holders who go to most every game but they're making it difficult to grow the fanbase when it's hard for the team to get there. It's almost like if you were to put the Sharks in Dublin or in Salinas.

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10-06-2012, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
How bout they relocate the Coyotes to the heart of Phoenix? They're in Glendale, from what I've heard, a lot of people don't go because it's out of the way and takes 45 minutes to get there. Sure there are season ticket holders who go to most every game but they're making it difficult to grow the fanbase when it's hard for the team to get there. It's almost like if you were to put the Sharks in Dublin or in Salinas.
ottawa is in the same situation, and they don't seem to have a problem attracting fans.

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10-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
How bout they relocate the Coyotes to the heart of Phoenix? They're in Glendale, from what I've heard, a lot of people don't go because it's out of the way and takes 45 minutes to get there. Sure there are season ticket holders who go to most every game but they're making it difficult to grow the fanbase when it's hard for the team to get there. It's almost like if you were to put the Sharks in Dublin or in Salinas.
They still had financial issues in downtown Phoenix, though the arena wasn't suited for them and it was their first 8 years. I'm not really sure if they would have progressed much even if they had just fixed the downtown arena. I remember when they first moved they had to do little tutorial videos on how "easy" it was to drive to the new arena.

I do see where you're coming from though, I live 45 minutes away from San Jose and would definitely attend more if I lived closer.

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10-07-2012, 01:34 PM
  #33
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Going off the ESPN thing.

I think the biggest problem with this lockout, is that there is NO MEDIA PRESSURE!

That is the main reason why we're going to lose the entire season. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost two seasons. The players might just do that, I'm sure they are fed up.

Take the NFL, Basketball and NFL Refs disputes. EVERYDAY on ESPN while those were going on, people talked about it. PTI, Blogs, Around the HORN, Sportscenter, couldn't get enough of it. That stuff plays a huge factor!

But since no one "cares" about the NHL lockout, there is no pressure on the owners and nhlpa to continually sit in a room and figure it out.

Look how quick the NFL solved the refs dispute after that monday night game with seattle and green bay. Media went off after that game and that ultimately forced the two sides to get it done.

Honestly I'm dead serious about this, but you know what would help get this thing done? If Justin Bieber tweeted everyday saying, "Yo NHL figure this **** out!" The media would blow up on that.

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10-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #34
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I had a similar thought the other day. If the lockout is an extended one, it could really hurt the Sharks when/if they come back.

People like us (people on the board) will probably always watch the Sharks. We'll probably still attend games and still buy merchandise. However, a decent chunk of revenue for the Sharks and the league is driven by the casual fan. The people who you know that all of a sudden like hockey because there is a team doing well.

I think one of the reasons the Sharks have seen such an increase in popularity is because when they came back the Niners, Raiders, A's and Giants were terrible and really continued to be terrible until about a couple of years ago for the Giants (last year for the Niners and this year for the A's).

If they come back after an extended break (a year), they will be coming back to an area with three good teams and one with a mega-stadium almost built.
Exactly...and if somehow, someway, the Warriors have a decent season it would really hurt the Sharks too. (Don't forget the Warriors being terrible during the last lockout too, and most seasons in the past two decades).

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10-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
Going off the ESPN thing.

I think the biggest problem with this lockout, is that there is NO MEDIA PRESSURE!

That is the main reason why we're going to lose the entire season. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost two seasons. The players might just do that, I'm sure they are fed up.

Take the NFL, Basketball and NFL Refs disputes. EVERYDAY on ESPN while those were going on, people talked about it. PTI, Blogs, Around the HORN, Sportscenter, couldn't get enough of it. That stuff plays a huge factor!

But since no one "cares" about the NHL lockout, there is no pressure on the owners and nhlpa to continually sit in a room and figure it out.

Look how quick the NFL solved the refs dispute after that monday night game with seattle and green bay. Media went off after that game and that ultimately forced the two sides to get it done.

Honestly I'm dead serious about this, but you know what would help get this thing done? If Justin Bieber tweeted everyday saying, "Yo NHL figure this **** out!" The media would blow up on that.
Agree 100%. A big part of the (perceived?) lack of interest in the NHL is the lack of media coverage. If all day, every day they talked NHL in sports media outlets and drowned people in NHL coverage like they do in the NFL, more people would be into the NHL, and specifically, create an outrage over the NHL lockout.

I understand I'm making a "chicken or the egg which comes first" argument, but I do firmly believe there is a large component of the success of the NFL having to do with the media coverage that draws in people, rather than just people who love the NFL so the media caters to them.

So back to the immediate issue at hand, the NHL and NHLPA would be hard pressed to ignore something like, for example, the next two weeks of having US sports media (tv, radio, print, internet, etc) drill into the greedy owners/players for not resolving this.

Would never happen, but then again, we've seen the sports media, from time to time, waste time on such things as steroids and Jerry Sandusky than talk about actual ongoing sports.

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10-07-2012, 04:05 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
I think all these lockout contracts have clauses saying they can come back right away if the lockout ends.
I do hope so, then again how many players bothered to put that in the contract, intentionally or otherwise. THAT is my real worry. They went with the intention of staying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inub0i View Post
I'm hoping for a season, even if it starts late (November).
If its November, best start preparing for next season, and Damm your avi is cute

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
I blame the owners 100%.

If the players accepted what the owners are giving them, then the owners would know that they could do whatever the **** they wanted and lockout again once the new CBA was done.

I honest to god wonder if the NHl would be better off with monkeys running it.

Hmmm. We're short on money. Lets waste 100m+ on trying to save the phoenix coyotes, and then have the owners all chip in to cover the losses. Oh what? the player gave another player the dirtiest cheap shot ever, Fine him 2500$.

Theyre are 3 simple ways in my mind to fix the lockout and end it now.

1. Stop with this stupid % of HRR BS for the cap number, Make the cap frozzen at 70m until the 70m is equal to 50% of HRR. At that point, the cap will become 50% of league revenue again.

This makes the owners happy, in the sense that they save money long term. The players are happy as their current contracts arent effected, and since the cap is the same, nobody is waived to create space.

2. Get the Coyotes the **** outta the desert and move them to canada.
2.1 You get a massive relocation fee. This helps cover the money lost from the lockout.
2.2 Quebec city has the funds to field a competitive team, and will spend more then phoenix did. This means the players will get paid more money.
2.3 You dont waste that money on keeping the team in the desert.

3. Increase player fines. Instead of 2500. make the maximum 25000. Yes thats right, there is an extra 0. The money collected would be entered into the revenue sharing system. The players, while not wanting to pay 10x as much, agree to this because the increase in fines hopefully makes players think longer about that dirty cheap shot they decide to throw.
I think the cap system is in need of a full overhaul. In the end the NHL just needs to let go of its failing markets and let them move, put them where there's a market and money. Can't bankroll teams anymore. Your other points are perfectly legit tho, but there needs to be a 3 man panel rather than just one to determine penalties. One man has way too much power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Agree 100%. A big part of the (perceived?) lack of interest in the NHL is the lack of media coverage. If all day, every day they talked NHL in sports media outlets and drowned people in NHL coverage like they do in the NFL, more people would be into the NHL, and specifically, create an outrage over the NHL lockout.

I understand I'm making a "chicken or the egg which comes first" argument, but I do firmly believe there is a large component of the success of the NFL having to do with the media coverage that draws in people, rather than just people who love the NFL so the media caters to them.

So back to the immediate issue at hand, the NHL and NHLPA would be hard pressed to ignore something like, for example, the next two weeks of having US sports media (tv, radio, print, internet, etc) drill into the greedy owners/players for not resolving this.

Would never happen, but then again, we've seen the sports media, from time to time, waste time on such things as steroids and Jerry Sandusky than talk about actual ongoing sports.
NHL in the states will always be 2nd bananna on the best of days. If there gonna get any fan-base rolling its the internet that's gonna carry it, not the TV market.

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10-07-2012, 10:04 PM
  #37
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NHL in the states will always be 2nd bananna on the best of days. If there gonna get any fan-base rolling its the internet that's gonna carry it, not the TV market.
You're right, but what I am saying (in another way of putting it), is that I'd like to see the results of a sociological experiment where an American community or the country or a region or something (especially a market with an NHL team like the Sharks), for one full year, was innundated with hockey coverage, i.e. Mike and Mike talk hockey like they do the NFL, Skip Bayless talk hockey like he does the NFL, Jim Rome talks hockey like he does NFL, local sports radio talks hockey like they do the NFL, local sports TV talks hockey like they do the NFL,

and see how the media coverage/exposure changes things like TV ratings. My point is, for example, that most people didn't care as much about the steroid crap...until the media shoved it down their throats. I'd like to see what would happen if the NHL was shoved down Americans throats like the NFL is, even if its a sample size.

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10-08-2012, 09:18 AM
  #38
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Ratings for the nhl will never get that good, no matter the coverage it gets. Hockey is to much of a live sport then a tv sport, meaning hockey is just not as fun to watch on the tv as football is. Football you can go to the wash room and only miss maybe 1 or 2 plays (most likely not even miss a 1st down play), hockey you go to the bathroom and you can and most likely will miss something like a goal, fight, huge hit.

Even in canada the tv ratings are good, but still with how much canada loves hockey they should be much better. And in canada every single resident who owns a tv and basic cable gets the 3 main stations that play hockey, cbc, tsn, sportsnet (east,west,south,north).

It is why hockey depends on there fans to actually come to the live games, it is why hockey doesnt get a massive tv contract even though games are played 7 days a week.

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10-08-2012, 12:46 PM
  #39
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I do hope so, then again how many players bothered to put that in the contract, intentionally or otherwise. THAT is my real worry. They went with the intention of staying.
The NHL contract takes precedence. No matter the out clause. The player gets sued if he has a contract and doesn't comeback after the CBA is signed. The player would also likely suffer at the hands of the IIHF for international play if he walked on a primary contract in any league. AIUI, all NHL players get out clauses because they risk lawsuits and Euro teams are reluctant to get too many NHL players on one team because the lockout could see a mass exodus. The other issue is insurance, the players/team need to get insurance on their NHL contracts which is very expensive. There is a strong financial disincentive to sign NHL players in Europe based on that insurance alone.

Barrie,
The NHL is garnering TV market share. I would guess that Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo and possibly Minnesota outdraw NBA audiences in those cities. I would check NHL vs NBA audiences again in a decade. Don't go year to year. The league has dramatically improved their national TV contract in the US since the last lockout and the combined national contracts, US and Canada, make it even more dramatic. I think dismissing national TV contracts as a drop in the bucket and big ones as a pipedream is extremely shortsighted and pessimistic. I agree that NHL is better live, but . . . I do think that the lockout could damage market growth and I also think that if the league listens to the "let them play" crowd that going to defensive hockey in the extreme will damage market penetration. In some senses the NHL is paying for the relatively conservative outlook of hockey back in the 50s and 60s as they were extremely late to the game in expansion.

I also think that the US surpassing Canada in the number of youngsters involved in hockey gives the lie to "hockey never making inroads in the US". Again pessimism in the face of facts that point in the opposite direction. California, Texas and Tennessee have seen dramatic growth of programs. Kind of ironic as Canada has stagnated in growth, much less the possibility that there is a slight decline north of the border.

BF,
When they considered Glendale for the Yotes, Scottsdale was another possibility. Scottsdale had better demographics for hockey as well as location within the Valley of the Sun.


Last edited by SJeasy: 10-08-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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10-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #40
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I agree with what SJeasy said,

Remember, of all the sports to have benefitted from HD TV, hockey is EASILY the most. Yet, hockey lost its ESPN contract right when HD was becoming a household standard.

If hockey was on ESPN and in the national spotlight with current broadcast standards, the ratings would be much much better.

As for Chompchomps social experiment, the answer is yes. If people were told hockey is "cool and important" they would watch it. But hockey has taken on the stereotype of being an outsider sport. I get pissed off everytime I hear a sportscaster make a sarcastic joke about "hockey? who watches hockey?" That is SOOOO bad for reinforcing the stereotype.

One of the big big gripes I have with the NHL is how they market their players. They do a poor poor job of it. As much as people hate on the Terrell Owens', Ron Artests', Chad Ocho Cinco's of the world, they are important for growing the buzz of your sport.

The NHL NEEDS to have more of the **** talkers in the public eye. Not goons, but talkers.

Also think about how monday/sunday night football do their broadcasts. They show close up pictures/footage of players saying their name and college everytime they do a line up. That's huge!! Hockey never does that! They might show Crosby looking up at camera before a commercial but that does nothing!

They should be announcing the lines everynight.

You gotta have star players, people who are household names. If you can do that, then you'll see the popularity increase immensely.

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10-08-2012, 04:08 PM
  #41
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I guess I'll just follow the Bulls this year.

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10-09-2012, 01:13 AM
  #42
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Ratings for the nhl will never get that good, no matter the coverage it gets. Hockey is to much of a live sport then a tv sport, meaning hockey is just not as fun to watch on the tv as football is. Football you can go to the wash room and only miss maybe 1 or 2 plays (most likely not even miss a 1st down play), hockey you go to the bathroom and you can and most likely will miss something like a goal, fight, huge hit.

Even in canada the tv ratings are good, but still with how much canada loves hockey they should be much better. And in canada every single resident who owns a tv and basic cable gets the 3 main stations that play hockey, cbc, tsn, sportsnet (east,west,south,north).

It is why hockey depends on there fans to actually come to the live games, it is why hockey doesnt get a massive tv contract even though games are played 7 days a week.
Interesting, I feel exactly the opposite, but this is coming from the guy who used the bathroom for 30 secs and managed to miss Tebow's 80 yard OT touchdown in the playoffs last year...

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10-09-2012, 05:04 AM
  #43
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with the pretty high likelihood that this season is gone, is anyone else starting to lose interest in what happens? im sort of resigned to it but with the niners kicking butt at least we have something to entertain us until feb.

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10-09-2012, 08:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
with the pretty high likelihood that this season is gone, is anyone else starting to lose interest in what happens? im sort of resigned to it but with the niners kicking butt at least we have something to entertain us until feb.
That works if you like other sports, I don't. Hockey is all I watch, so this really sucks.

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10-09-2012, 09:44 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
That works if you like other sports, I don't. Hockey is all I watch, so this really sucks.
same here ... I really only follow the Chicago Bears and I don't get to see more than 2 or 3 games a year

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10-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
with the pretty high likelihood that this season is gone, is anyone else starting to lose interest in what happens? im sort of resigned to it but with the niners kicking butt at least we have something to entertain us until feb.
I am a Niner Faithful, so yes we do have something to entertain us (And even other teams in other sports), but my #1 team is the Sharks. I live, eat and breathe San Jose Sharks hockey. Them not playing bugs me. It killed me in 04-05, and will kill me now until this is done.

Also, I'm a fan of NHL hockey. It will be even worse than 04-05 if this season is lost because the post lockout era has had a lot of great hockey and seen this sport grow in the US, especially with the Winter Classic. Sure not as much as I would like, but still better than where we were in the 03-04 season, for example. Those gains are going to be lost if a season is gone. Somebody needs to cave in...NOW.

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10-09-2012, 11:47 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
That works if you like other sports, I don't. Hockey is all I watch, so this really sucks.
Might be time to learn and pick up other sports? Could be a blessing in disguise honestly. Don't think anyone's ever regretted expanding their range on anything.

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10-09-2012, 01:53 PM
  #48
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After 33 minutes of play Couture has 4 goals (2g 2a) (Geneva is winning 5-1 for the moment). This is his first really good game! He's playing better and better

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10-09-2012, 02:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ElTailR View Post
After 33 minutes of play Couture has 4 goals (2g 2a) (Geneva is winning 5-1 for the moment). This is his first really good game! He's playing better and better
4 pts ! Thornton scored 1 goal

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10-09-2012, 02:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by JERMIC View Post
4 pts ! Thornton scored 1 goal
Yes sorry, that was I meant (His line scored another goal)

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