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Is it realistic to trade Grabo and make room for our prospects?

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Old
10-09-2012, 12:46 PM
  #51
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Keep it up people.

The discussion is getting good here.

This is one of the most honest threads about our prospects and current roster in quite some time.


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10-09-2012, 12:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
Comparing Grabo and Jokinen's path is apples and oranges. Olli's suited up for 6 different NHL teams, Grabo 2. Jokinen is 34, Grabo 28. Not to mention completely different styles of play.

Based on your logic, while we've achieved nothing as him as our best center, we also haven't achieved anything with Phaneuf as our best Dman or Kessel as our best forward. So let's ship them out too and replace them with prospects?

No. I am talking about a player (who is supposedly one of our best forwards on the leafs) who has zero playoff games. Dion and Kessel have both played in the playoffs.

Playoff futility means playoff futility.

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10-09-2012, 01:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HenryH View Post
If you don't remember, when Kulemin got injured near the last month and a bit, Grabo played a lot more with Frattin and Ashton, some with mac, and a bit of a mix of Crabb, Hamilton, Connolly, and Kadri. Lot of games with young inexperienced players and bad mix. Everything about the team basically went downhill.
You guys are going to have to decide, whether he is a difference maker that he can make a rookie like Frattin better or he is a player that needs and depends on having better players around him. The excuses for this player are just piling up.

Bergeron was a difference maker, he played with a rookie and a 40 something player and his line was one of the best in the playoffs when they won the cup. No excuses, he did. That's the difference in a contending top 6 player and 1 that is often a lottery pick team top 6 C.

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10-09-2012, 01:07 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Therein lies the problem, and speaks to the quality of the Leafs prospect pool.

We don't seem to have prospects worthy of this, and its more the Connolly and Bozak depth/role players that are being pushed then top 6 forward positions.

While Grabs is a solid 2nd line center, there is no one qualified today to take his job within the system.
I'd like to address this point.

If this is true then Burke's days are truly numbered. If Burke can't find suitable prospects to replace secondary roles like 2C, then what is the proof of his time and hard work here? Isn't he supposed to get credit for laying a good foundation?

Unless MLSE believes that Burke is the right guy in place when the '13-'14 UFA Market starts,
I have to wonder how they find the confidence to continue with him. What's there to show so far? A losing team with very few bright prospects?

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10-09-2012, 01:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
I'd like to address this point.

If this is true then Burke's days are truly numbered. If Burke can't find suitable prospects to replace secondary roles like 2C, then what is the proof of his time and hard work here? Isn't he supposed to get credit for laying a good foundation?

Unless MLSE believes that Burke is the right guy in place when the '13-'14 UFA Market starts,
I have to wonder how they find the confidence to continue with him. What's there to show so far? A losing team with very few bright prospects?
Wat. Nazem Kadri. Joe Colborne. Greg McKegg. What the hell is a "suitable" prospect, anyways? I feel like you're just making stuff up here.

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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
No. I am talking about a player (who is supposedly one of our best forwards on the leafs) who has zero playoff games. Dion and Kessel have both played in the playoffs.

Playoff futility means playoff futility.
And why does this even matter? Ilya Kovalchuk didn't make the playoffs for the better part of a decade. Last playoffs, he had 19 points in 23 games. Prior playoff experience means jack all.

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10-09-2012, 01:26 PM
  #56
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I think there's room for them already. Seems like our #1C and possibly #3C (depending which line McClement plays) is already up for grabs. Not sure why we gotta make the #2C available as well. Unless we get an offer we can't refuse, of course

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10-09-2012, 01:31 PM
  #57
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Not this season. I'd let him give a little more time to prove his contract could be more of a bargain before deciding to give him a permanent 2C spot or use him to lure a big fish. Right now, his star isn't as shiny as it could be in other GM's eyes, but in ours, we know what we have for now.

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10-09-2012, 01:33 PM
  #58
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It makes sense to trade a winger (Lombardi, MacArthur) but NOT a centre, unless his name is Connolly.

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10-09-2012, 01:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Yep, care to explain to me had he not gone -7 when Kule went down and slumped the last 2 months of the season, would we have had the chance to tank to 25th and not have had the chance to draft Morgan Rielly?
Because Grabo was the only one on the team to get a minus? Get your head out of your ass! The whole team slumped, it's hard to produce when your team isn't helping you out, hence why it's called a team game. There are only a hand-full of players that can carry a team by themselves.

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10-09-2012, 01:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post


The whole team slumped. It's not fair to single Grabovski out of the entire group, especially considering the fact he's played against the toughest competition (of any TML forward) and had the most successful Corsi numbers (of any TML player by a wide margin). You take that away from the roster and you're not going to get better by supplanting a damned rookie for Grabovski

I know, he's overpaid, and he's not as consistent as you'd like him to be but he plays hard and has been a 20+ goal scorer 3 of 4 years here in Toronto. Suggesting the team is better without him is asinine, I'm sorry but it is. I'm not going to argue he's a long-term solution and what-not, because any team with a record as bad as Toronto's should look to improve everywhere, but the lack of credit you've given him just so you could tell the HFBoards collective that you were "right" is getting a little silly.
Thank You!

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10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #61
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Didn't the Corsi stats have the best player in the game Sid Crosby ranked only 8th on his own team?

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10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #62
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Something went wrong with that whole 2nd line...

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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Yep, care to explain to me had he not gone -7 when Kule went down and slumped the last 2 months of the season, would we have had the chance to tank to 25th and not have had the chance to draft Morgan Rielly?

But I feel Grabo. can up his game and bounce back,adding to his current trade value.If either Kulemin or MaC. stumble,Frattin or Kadri can be brought in to refire Grabo's potential.I think he can do 60 pts pace(strike) this year with a good winger,maybe even JVR.IF I think about it a Kessel,Grabo and maybe Kadri package might entice a cash strapped team to pass us a top center and a vet goalie.

JVR ? Lupul

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10-09-2012, 02:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Wat. Nazem Kadri. Joe Colborne. Greg McKegg. What the hell is a "suitable" prospect, anyways? I feel like you're just making stuff up here.



And why does this even matter? Ilya Kovalchuk didn't make the playoffs for the better part of a decade. Last playoffs, he had 19 points in 23 games. Prior playoff experience means jack all.
It matters to a team who hasn't seen the playoffs in 7 seasons. It matters a lot. It mattered that Belfour had cup experience. It also mattered that Kessel was a point per game playoff player on Boston too.

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10-09-2012, 02:01 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Because Grabo was the only one on the team to get a minus? Get your head out of your ass! The whole team slumped, it's hard to produce when your team isn't helping you out, hence why it's called a team game. There are only a hand-full of players that can carry a team by themselves.
Really? Did Kessel and Bozak slump? Kessel and Bozak played well all the way through, even when Lupul went down. Kessel maintained his PPG and Bozak finished exactly 4 less pts, than #84. This despite not playing on the top line until Connolly went down, when Lupul went down, and in 1 less game than #84.

I have never seen so many apologists for Grabo, amusing.

Keep Grabo, free Mackinnon is the new slogan! Love our chances of another lottery pick with Grabo as the defunk top 6 C on the Leafs.

I'm not joking either, with Grabo on your top 6, you know the team is not that good. Success follows good players, as does losing follow mediocre ones like Grabo.

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10-09-2012, 02:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Really? Did Kessel and Bozak slump? Kessel and Bozak played well all the way through, even when Lupul went down.

I have never seen so many apologists for Grabo, amusing.

Keep Grabo, free Mackinnon is the new slogan! Love our chances of another lottery pick with Grabo as the defunk top 6 C on the Leafs.
You brought up how Grabo was a -7 without Kule, Kessel was a -10 overall and he put up more points then Grabo and he played against much weaker competition. You're not really helping the team out when you get scored on more then you can produce.

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10-09-2012, 02:11 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
No. I am talking about a player (who is supposedly one of our best forwards on the leafs) who has zero playoff games. Dion and Kessel have both played in the playoffs.

Playoff futility means playoff futility.
How does one measure someones playoff abilities when they've never had the chance to play in them?

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10-09-2012, 02:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
You brought up how Grabo was a -7 without Kule, Kessel was a -10 overall and he put up more points then Grabo and he played against much weaker competition. You're not really helping the team out when you get scored on more then you can produce.
He was, he was +7 when Kule went down. Finished the year even and in one of his usual once or twice a year slumps. I'm not complaining, it helped us tank and draft Rielly.

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10-09-2012, 02:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Really? Did Kessel and Bozak slump? Kessel and Bozak played well all the way through, even when Lupul went down. Kessel maintained his PPG and Bozak finished exactly 4 less pts, than #84. This despite not playing on the top line until Connolly went down, when Lupul went down, and in 1 less game than #84.

I have never seen so many apologists for Grabo, amusing.

Keep Grabo, free Mackinnon is the new slogan! Love our chances of another lottery pick with Grabo as the defunk top 6 C on the Leafs.

I'm not joking either, with Grabo on your top 6, you know the team is not that good. Success follows good players, as does losing follow mediocre ones like Grabo.
Grabo din't start on his line either. He started on the 4th when he came back from injury. His main line were never really fully together until mid-december, not to mention he was on a line with Kule who couldn't produce at all and he still put up 51 points. Bozak played with 2 PPG players for the majority of the season and still couldn't match Grabo.

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10-09-2012, 02:18 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Grabo din't start on his line either. He started on the 4th when he came back from injury. His main line were never really fully together until mid-december, not to mention he was on a line with Kule who couldn't produce at all and he still put up 51 points. Bozak played with 2 PPG players for the majority of the season and still couldn't match Grabo.
What's the excuse for only being 7 pts better when Kule was then a great winger the year before, but now he isn't?

It's not like any of the Leafs had to play defence under Wilson.

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10-09-2012, 02:18 PM
  #70
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He was, he was +7 when Kule went down. Finished the year even and in one of his usual once or twice a year slumps. I'm not complaining, it helped us tank and draft Rielly.
You're right, its all Grabo's fault. He's our Crosby, without him we fail. I mean he should be a lot better seeing as he plays center for all four lines. Next year we should make him play as a center and a defender, maybe he can work his way to be our goalie to! We can teach him the knuckle puck and everything!!1!!!1!!

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10-09-2012, 02:21 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
What's the excuse for only being 7 pts better when Kule was then a great wingerthe year before, but now he isn't?

It's not like any of the Leafs had to play defence under Wilson.
It speaks volumes that he was almost able to replicate his past season when his main winger could only muster up 28 points. You're not helping your argument here.

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10-09-2012, 02:23 PM
  #72
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I think we need some good vets around and Grabo is a solid NHL veteran. He gets hit and pushed around and still makes a play. He is a good second line centre for us. Kadri would be fine on the wing or try him at front line centre.

On another note. I find it funny that we keep on hearing about putting all these younger players in the lineup. Players need to be brought along gradually unless there is a strong support group there already. It's funny when I listen to basketball GM's talking about having two rookies on a team is in many circumstances one too many, yet in hockey there is a fascination with have them being all rookies.

We are finally starting to get some depth here and you guys want to get rid of guys. Guys will slide up and down the lineup, it's part of life.

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10-09-2012, 02:37 PM
  #73
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I don't understand some people.

1)Grabo is far and away our best center. No he's not a first liner but only because he doesn't have chemistry with Kessel.

2) We JUST resigned him for 5 years, not saying he'll be here that whole time but our GM is not Paul Holmgren who would trade a player right after signing him for a long term. Obviously management must figure they won't move him if they resigned him.

3) There's a good chance there's a lockout that could last all season, if so then thankfully Connolly and Lombardi will be gone. If we can somehow acquire a 1C, Bozak takes over the 3rd, McClement the 4th and Grabo solidifies the 2nd line.

4)And finally we don't exactly have any high profile forward prospects. Kadri and Colborne are the only ones with a chance to crack the line up. If Kadri does impress it will be Bozak that he knocks out. He won't be centering a 3rd line on a Carlyle team, plus i'm more certain he'll be permantely shifted to the wing. Colborne is not ready and his max upside IMO is a 2nd line C, don't think he'll be ready to dethrone Grabo anytime soon either.

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10-09-2012, 02:39 PM
  #74
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It speaks volumes that he was almost able to replicate his past season when his main winger could only muster up 28 points. You're not helping your argument here.
You didn't answer how Kule was a 30 goal scorer, a great winger the year before and Grabo only managed 7 pts more in a full 82 game season. Did Kule all of a sudden become a bum last year?

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10-09-2012, 02:41 PM
  #75
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I think we need some good vets around and Grabo is a solid NHL veteran. He gets hit and pushed around and still makes a play. He is a good second line centre for us. Kadri would be fine on the wing or try him at front line centre.

On another note. I find it funny that we keep on hearing about putting all these younger players in the lineup. Players need to be brought along gradually unless there is a strong support group there already. It's funny when I listen to basketball GM's talking about having two rookies on a team is in many circumstances one too many, yet in hockey there is a fascination with have them being all rookies.

We are finally starting to get some depth here and you guys want to get rid of guys. Guys will slide up and down the lineup, it's part of life.
This is bang on, in other sports players don't usually make it until their 20's, but in the NHL you're a bust if you can't make it by 19. It's rare that players in other sports make the team after their draft year.

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