And no one would trade Grabo either last year had the chance presented itself, not even to draft Boone Jenner? That's what I am talking about. Boone in a year or 2? Scary thought he and Biggs together, but the refrain with some leafs fans is let's just hold onto our mediocre losing players because we overrate them or we feel sentimental.
You're acting as if us Leaf fans are the ones in control of the team. It was Burke that gave Grabo the 5 year deal. Clearly he sees him as a very important piece of the team going forward. Even if we did it agree on this it wouldn't really matter lol.
But for discussion purposes, Boone Jenner is the ideal kind of prospect you'd be wanting if you did move Grabo. That I can agree with you on because he is a center prospect that looks like he as top 6 potential are should be at the very least a solid 3rd line C. Mark Mcneill is another guy i'd like. These are the type of deals i'd explore if we had a top line center, and one of Kadri/Colborne/Mckegg were ready to take over 2nd line duties.
Out of those hundred players, I see 7 that are significantly better than Grabo, though I could see some preferring a handful of other guys as well.
I'd say the chances of getting a player better than Grabo with a bottom-10 first rounder are about 7-15%.
So trading Grabo for 5-10 of those picks would give you even odds of getting a player better than Grabo a few years down the road.
Why are you stopping with first rd picks? Anyone player inside the top 60 could be picked with varying opinions, and we are talking about Dave Morrison and his staff, he didn't make those picks so it has no relevance at all. You also don't know Leafs could have picked a Boone Jenner last year either do you? Knowing Mo I would say had he had another first or early 2nd it is highly possible. We are talking about this summer's draft specifically and maybe last year's.
Grabo was not playing for the Leafs for the vast majority of players you cited. Just how are they in play then?
You're acting as if us Leaf fans are the ones in control of the team. It was Burke that gave Grabo the 5 year deal. Clearly he sees him as a very important piece of the team going forward. Even if we did it agree on this it wouldn't really matter lol.
But for discussion purposes, Boone Jenner is the ideal kind of prospect you'd be wanting if you did move Grabo. That I can agree with you on because he is a center prospect that looks like he as top 6 potential are should be at the very least a solid 3rd line C. Mark Mcneill is another guy i'd like. These are the type of deals i'd explore if we had a top line center, and one of Kadri/Colborne/Mckegg were ready to take over 2nd line duties.
So if we finally acquired a top-line center, you would look at trading away our second-line center for a prospect who might become a second-line center?
So if we finally acquired a top-line center, you would look at trading away our second-line center for a prospect who might become a second-line center?
and it's not that those picks are worthless or irrelevant, it's just a matter of evaluating exactly what they are worth.
I mean, even if you look at #3-10 picks, the odds are maybe 50% that you get a legit impact top-6 forward or top-4 dman or starting goalie from it.
Grabo could have been traded last year, and this spring. The players you cited don't mean anything since he wasn't even a Leaf for the vast majority of players you posted.
We are looking at the 11 and 12 drafts.
Plus you are assuming Morrison would pick some of those players? Shaky argument.
I get the idea that, if we had a #1C, and Kadri/Colborne/whoever were 100% ready to play in a top-six role, that might open up the possibility of trading Grabovski.... but if you already have a second-line center and a couple of prospects who could be second-line centers.... why would you trade away the bona fide guy for another (maybe) #2C prospect? If we acquire a #1C, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be to keep Grabo, push everyone else down the depth chart and end up with a better overall team?
you're looking at the 11 and 12 drafts through the lenses of a prospect porn addict.
I look at Boone Jenner and what he is doing with Oshawa this year, maybe I like to project and think like a scout. But it doesn't take a genius to surmise this is a going to be a very good player in the NHL, and in 2 to 3 years a much more better player than Grabo will be.
I look at Boone Jenner and what he is doing with Oshawa this year, maybe I like to project and think like a scout. But it doesn't take a genius to surmise this is a very good player, and in 2 to 3 years a much more better player than Grabo.
Every year, there will be a handful of later picks that turn into stars.
But, again, the odds are against it. Heavily against it.
I get the idea that, if we had a #1C, and Kadri/Colborne/whoever were 100% ready to play in a top-six role, that might open up the possibility of trading Grabovski.... but if you already have a second-line center and a couple of prospects who could be second-line centers.... why would you trade away the bona fide guy for another prospect? If we acquire a #1C, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be to keep Grabo, push everyone else down the depth chart and end up with a better overall team?
Yes, the makeup of the rest of the team-particularly at center-would definitely affect whether id be willing to move Grabo or not. Our cap situation would play an important role as well.
I look at Boone Jenner and what he is doing with Oshawa this year, maybe I like to project and think like a scout. But it doesn't take a genius to surmise this is a going to be a very good player in the NHL, and in 2 to 3 years a much more better player than Grabo will be.
Like that's not been said before about millions of prospects that have gone nowhere.. we have some in our system now that ruled in the O and struggled in every level above that . But we do have a 2nd line C who has proven he has the chops to compete in the NHL, I'd take that any time. I would trade Grabo if we had a couple guys in our system that could pick up his slack and we were getting a blue chip prospect back and a 1st rounder. But than again I would trade bergeron in that situation as well.
you're looking at the 11 and 12 drafts through the lenses of a prospect porn addict.
Bingo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif
Not the last 2 drafts, they were deep. And this is the only thing that matters since Grabo wasn't up for discussion before this.
How the hell would you know? They do look good, but the truth is a lot of them were over analyzed by us due to us having 2 picks in the 2011 draft. There is no reason history shouldn't be a good lesson and every draft in the last ten years suggests we have at best a 20% chance at getting a better player in the 20-30 range.
It's just statistical history. There is no two ways about it. You can use hindsight all you want in suggesting Bergeron and Subban but the FACT is they were 2nd rounders. You might as well suggest Kaberle or Zetterberg are better choices.
I'd like to replace Grabovski with a Jordan Staal or Ryan O'Reilly but until they are already here, I wouldn't move out our best center. Hopefully Colbourne can develop more to his game and push him out. I'd love the assets in return, while not losing out on having a 2nd line center that can score 50-60 pts.
How the hell would you know? They do look good, but the truth is a lot of them were over analyzed by us due to us having 2 picks in the 2011 draft. There is no reason history shouldn't be a good lesson and every draft in the last ten years suggests we have at best a 20% chance at getting a better player in the 20-30 range.
It's just statistical history. There is no two ways about it. You can use hindsight all you want in suggesting Bergeron and Subban but the FACT is they were 2nd rounders. You might as well suggest Kaberle or Zetterberg are better choices.
I'd like to replace Grabovski with a Jordan Staal or Ryan O'Reilly but until they are already here, I wouldn't move out our best center. Hopefully Colbourne can develop more to his game and push him out. I'd love the assets in return, while not losing out on having a 2nd line center that can score 50-60 pts.
I don't know about O'reilly yet, but staal wouldn't replace Grabo, he would play 1st line.
Out of those hundred players, I see 7 that are significantly better than Grabo, though I could see some preferring a handful of other guys as well.
I'd say the chances of getting a player better than Grabo with a bottom-10 first rounder are about 7-15%.
So trading Grabo for 5-10 of those picks would give you even odds of getting a player better than Grabo a few years down the road.
There are plenty of guys on that list that I'd take over Grabovski, however I'm with you on your point. The chances of selecting and developing said player are low.
There are plenty of guys on that list that I'd take over Grabovski, however I'm with you on your point. The chances of selecting and developing said player are low.
I'd trade Kadri and Colborne for a 2nd. rounder in the 2005 draft.
Wait. This seems too easy.
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Woodlief
using his big frame to create space and his skating ability to find open lanes to drive the net. He stands 6-3 and is a natural goal scorer with plenty of confidence.
He's a scout's dream in the way he prepares himself and plays an unselfish game, making smart decisions with the puck. With his bloodlines, he certainly understands what it will take to make it at the next level.
It's no secret what my position is on the core of this team, after 4 years of not making the playoffs and 2 lottery picks, the evidence is we need to add and subtract from this group. Kessel is an elite talent, he can help someone who is a lot closer than we are, I have stated the Burke trade will yield a win if he can obtain another core piece via Kessel. Kessel was just the wrong player at this point in time for The Leafs. But he will be a valuable piece as a trade commodity for Burke to parlay into the ultimate win.
Dion is a very good piece to start with, after coming back from his calve cut he has at times been dominant, he visibly tired last year being the player that played the toughest mins on the team. If he gets more support from guys like Finn, Rielly, Percy and Reimer, Leafs nation will be happy we never let this guy go.
As for Grabo, I think I have I have said my peace on him. Mark my words, the day this guy is traded, we will be a better team, my measurement, wins and losses. Not the pretty figure 8's he does on the ice while accumulating 50 so odd meaningless points. It will not be a coincidence we are a better team when we add players that have more intangible substance.
Kessel is an elite talent that should be successful well into his 30s with the type of natural hand/foot speed he has and low physical impact game he plays. He's a player to build around, not one to consider trading.
Agreed on Dion. Most of the criticism he gets is unfair. The guy is a darn good building block but to bad he plays on a team with no number 1 center, no other top pairing quality dman (at least not yet), defensively awful forwards and among the worst goaltending in the league.
I'm open to the idea of trading of Grabo but the price would start with AT LEAST a package comparable to what Kaberle returned (i.e. 1st rounder, good project prospect (Colborne) and a conditional pick). Then I'd be looking to find his replacement this off-season.
Trade Grabo=
Net Picks/Prospects + capspace to sign anyone of Getzlaf/Perry/Horton/Roy/Whitney/Zajac/Edler/Weiss/Filpulla
Last edited by Ricky Bobby: 10-10-2012 at 12:12 AM.
